At end of your 8th turn with howling mine. Needs clockspinning.
darkfury
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
it takes forever, but ends up just being an I Win button
Designer_Genes
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
Crap card is crap. By the time you get this up and running, no matter how you do so, it isn't worth it.
Shiduba
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(2 votes)
This goes well with Howling Mine and strong draw decks, but otherwise it's just too difficult to use.
Oleander
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(7 votes)
Another extremely disappointing blue card in a set that has overall extremely weak blue cards. Why on earth would you waste deck space on a card like this that triggers so late in the game? If you're running a draw card engine that can cause you to trip the add-a-counter ability, needing to search your library for a card is kinda moot, as you'll likely have a copy of whatever you wanted in your hand already. I mean, compared to the other Ascension cards, this one is like a rock in a pile of gemstones. Every single one of the other Ascensions can be used within 4 turns of playing them, some on the turn they come out, but overall maxing at 4. On top of that, the other colors have pretty game breaking effects too. But what does blue get? A tutor base on card draw that activates in 6 turns, putting it ages behind the others. Come on, blue was nasty in Lorwyn, but seriously, putting it on the short bus while it's compatriots get rocket ships is no way to balance the colors.
Drban
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card would be work in an EDH deck that was built for drawing cards.
darkerthought7
★☆☆☆☆ (1.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Blue just got far more awesome! I need to get a hold of this. If you're playing blue right, it'll get some nice counters from Ponder or Jace together with Howling Mine. Finding counter magic no longer becomes a problem and you can pull your win condition at your leisure. Quite a nice addition to blue. Thanks, Wizards! (but I STILL won't play with your merfolk. Stop pushing them...)
Facse1010
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(6 votes)
Who said you have to wait till your turn. Just use something that will let you draw cards during your opponents turn. In a standard game that will half the time.
Omniance
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Doesn't come out until turn 2-3, and you have to draw twelve cards before it does anything. In a 60 card deck this means you will have drawn at least 19 cards by the time this thing is useful, meaning that you will have drawn 1/3rd your deck, and that's not counting deck thinning cards. If you don't have what you need by the time you draw 19 cards, then you're either extremely unlucky, or your deck is terrible and this card isn't going to help it anyway.
The amount of extra mana you'll have to spend making sure you draw an additional card on each of your turns means this card costs much more then , meaning that even though you're drawing additional cards, you're not playing them anymore quickly then your opponents are playing theirs. As some others have said, by the time you get this card's effect up and running it isn't even worth it anymore.
Skylink
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You are now realizing how awesome GWU turbofog can be.
Xelopheris
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
This card requires too many cards in your deck dedicated to drawing to be worth it. To get it up to power in time without wasting all your resources on draw and actually surviving, you're probably looking at turn 10 or so before it's fully powered.
True_Mumin
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
So damn slow. Six counters is way too much.
A0602
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
Don't count on the card, but you can do some cool stuff. Enchant Gilder Bairn with Ocular Halo, untap him after your end step. Repeat the next turn and this is ready to go.
If you can put one Wheel of Sun and Moon into the library, you have a very evil cycle going on. Whatever your opponents destroy short of Archmage Ascension or Wheel of Sun and Moon you will be able to get back in no time flat.
If your running green/blue already you might be able to get this thing working without gilder bairn if you are patient. Cards like Shielding Plax and Snakeform can help for this.
CraigEgg
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Sadly, I agree that Blue can seem "watered down" (no pun intended) compared to what the other colors got. The other Ascensions seem so much more potent. Maybe if it was "get a counter for EVERY extra card you draw at any time" then I could see the 6 counter thing....Let's hope Worldwake gives Blue its due.
Selez
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Too slow without comboing, with comboing takes up your first five turns or so. I think that's generally long enough for your opponent to kill you. BUT... you could use it to great effect in EDH, in multiplayer (assuming your opponents don't target you for merely having it on the field), or in casual. Try searching up a final judgment after getting this to six counters!! Aside from your life total, you should be all caught up and ready with a deck full of answers at your beck and call.
Donovan_Fabian
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Well, it doesn't have to take forever.. couldn't you just use gilder bairn? Gilder bairn and freed from the real, even without some infinite mana engine powering it, could add a few counters a turn easily. Jace also would speed this along, and overbeing of myth. Would probably be to time consuming in the late game though, draw this around turn 7 - 10 and it wont activate before the game ends.
PaladinOfSunhome
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Nice card, but I get the feeling that you will to have a nice combo with other cards to have it really work, unlike others which can be nice and easy to build up on their own.
3.5
littlebeast
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
It is slow, but not necessarily as slow as people think. Guys, it doesn't have to be YOUR turn! Get a few activated ability/instant drawers, and you'll be set in three turns instead. Good ones to use: Pulse of the Grid, Reckless Scholars, Arcanis the Omnipotent. Works especially well in multiplayer.
TreeTrunkMaster
★★☆☆☆ (2.5/5.0)(1 vote)
this may be unlikely but I think this could get going a lot quicker something like this if you were to play first and lay a land every turn for at least the first 4 turns. (number in parenthesis are the number of counters on Archmage Ascension)
turn1 ? - turn 2 Howling Mine - turn 3 Acrchmage Ascension (1) - turn 4 Reckless Scholar (2) opponents turn 4 Brainstorm (3) - turn 5 another Reckless Scholar or something similar (4) opponents turn 5 another draw card to draw 1 or more and use the Reckless Scholar (5) Clockspinning (6)
If there was a way to draw 2 on your opponents turn right after you get Archmage Ascension you could get the counters one turn earlier even, problem is having the mana. Then you can start searching for your combo or color hoser right away.
Gwafa_Hazid
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Yeah, it's decent and all, but in a deck where your focus is drawing, Lorescale Coatl will probably be your beatstick of choice, and this will cripple his ability to get larger.
aba1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
by turn six assuming ur using the fastest route of howiling mine and sum ramp your just about done the game anyways any good speed deck will be soon to clean up
XDaragoX
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Constructed-playable or not, this thing wins games in EDH.
Dingo777
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
EDH card I think, wish it needed less counters, but tutor every draw, in multiplayer, or say, new jace tutor 3, put 2 on top
plus with the tutor, you can use new jace's first with the build up, on your opponent and not worry about what your top is and you dont lose anything cause you are drawing/tutoring 2 every turn
Gaussgoat
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
2 Merfolk Looters can work on this for you, and get it done really fast. Combined with a Howling mine, this is a 3-4 turn devastator.
Combine with Time Warp and you get an extra turn to hit the objective for free.
At least 3.5/5 for combo potential, as the ability to tutor at will is pretty much game over.
matthinton1404
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
what happens in the unlikely event that you have 2 of these out with full counters. I may be being silly but each time you would draw, would you get to search for 2 cards instead of one?
True_Smog
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(3 votes)
Simply too slow to be played.
DonRoyale
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(2 votes)
If you can get this active before you or it are dead, your opponent should just concede out of pure dumbfoundedness.
Just a completely worthless rare. Even three counters, and it'd still be unplayable. But it'd at least be nice for casual.
On the uppity, though, it's extremely pretty as a foil. But then you realize your foil rare could've been something SO much better.
sihllehl
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Doubling season in reasonable aswell as Walking Archive. also Deep Analysis and think again both have flashback ensureing a second counter for your card.
mdakw576
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(2 votes)
jesus christ this card is terrible.
If you've been drawing more than one card for SIX FREAKING TURNS, especially past 3 turns no less since this is a 3-drop, how come you didn't win already with all the card advantage?
Kenji18
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I recently built a deck that is based around it, and I have encountered the same issues as Xelopheris. The easiest way that I've come across so far is to use Compulsion, Frantic Search, a series of cantripping counter/bounce (like Repeal or something), and Rhysitic Study.
Once you reach post-activation, your cantripping bounce become tutors. Because of all of that power, though, I never want to search for lands in longer games. Null Profusion would be an interesting addition, if I had any to try out. Playing the land would let you tutor for another card, so you never have to worry about wasting a tutor for searching up a land. Better yet, toss in a singleton Spellbook at any point to negate the maximum hand size restriction, and let your cantrips feed your hand size to your heart's content.
This card is absolute garbage. Thanks for another Blue Junk Rare Wizards. Do you guys get paid extra every time someone rips one of these and gets angry? Oh wait, you do because now they have to buy another pack. It's a rare that nobody will want and it's relatively impractical to play anyway.
Why? Because 6 counters is way...WAY too much, even playing on your opponents' turns. Think about it. By the time this card goes active, you have likely drawn half of your cards anyway, defeating the point of the search function almost entirely.
To fix this card, change the condition to either drawing a single card (and keeping the 6 counters) or dropping the counter requirement to 2, or the mana cost by 1.
As it is printed, it is woefully underpowered, and a waste of good design space.
Belz_
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Powerful and interesting effect. But the requirements are too steep to be very functional.
LiXinjian
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Eh, Mindmoil? That way, once you have your six counters sitting snuggly on the enchantment, you get to recover whatever it was that you had to return to your library after playing a spell.
It would suck to have your opponent naturalize the enchantment once it reaches 6 counters, right? I can't think of anything worse than that. And it's pretty likely, too. More likely than your opponent casting Living Death after you just discarded Phage to Volrath's Shapeshifter. Much more likely.
Enchantment_Removal
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Hello to the upset blue players. Turn that frown upside down I say. I am happy that my favorite color does not have an unwarranted-ly stupid Ascension like all of the other colors do. It helps remove blue from iniquity. I still feel the shame from Teferi 3-4 years ago. Other than TEH NEW JACE (omgomgomgomg), blue standard has nothing that I've heard of to constantly rant about while sleeping, in church, during a test, or while in the bathroom.
So lets recap as to why this card is borderline useless outside of EDH. I like the first ability. It's like a pat on the back for good play behavior. The first ability is fine, the if-clause of the second ability is fine, the problem lies with the resultant clause. I encourage all (or most) who read this to try this experiment: Next time you have a duel (especially against a deck that usually beats you), turn all of you draws into Diabolic Tutors (as though Archmage Ascension were in play with 6 counters on it). You can even still count them as draws for the sake of pumping a Lorescale Coatl. At the beginning of the game, search you library for seven cards and let that be your opening hand. Some of you may think this is silly, some of you may already know what would happen. I encourage all who haven't tried this experiment to try it. Did you win? If so, did you win as easily as you thought you would? If you lost, why? Play a number of games to understand this phenomenon more. Compare these games to how your deck plays with the normal card draw rules. Don't design a deck exclusively for this experiment, try one you already have. If you're playing an opponent/deck that normally beats you, make sure that deck plays normally and draws from the top. Make sure your opponent is fine with this experiment. I hope someone out there who bothers to read this unreasonably long post will find enlightenment.
bijart_dauth
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
18scsc, only in a draw bleader deck, many and most bleader decks are discards, not over drawing.
I want to really like this, but it takes too long to get going.
HairlessThoctar
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Absolute crap. If you're drawing this many cards, you have no need whatsoever for a repeatable tutor.
-2/5
bagilis
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Howling Mine dudes!
Diachronos
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Getting the counters on it isn't going to be as hard as you'd think. On your turn, your draw step already gets you halfway to a counter; all you need to do is get one more card drawn on your turn to get the counter. Save the effects that let you draw multiple cards for your opponents' turns, and use the single-card draws on your turns.
@HairlessThoctar: Just because you're drawing a lot of cards doesn't mean you're getting cards that will help you at that moment. I'd much rather take the time to get enough counters to do the Tutor effect than draw a random card every turn and pray it's something that isn't completely useless in my current situation.
JaxsonBateman
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Could this card actually see use with Scars thanks to Proliferate? I doubt it, but if you think about it, if you're able to draw 2 cards on each of your turns (ie. Venser + Wall of Omens, either Jace, Preordain etc.) and Proliferate on each of your turns, it'd take only 3 of your turns to go online. If you're able to draw 2 cards on your opponent's turns also, that's 2 of your turns. It still seems way too reliant on other cards to become active, but it has more potential now.
Shell_shockkun
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Trying to get this card saturated the natural way is pointless, as if you go six turns (after getting three mana mind you, potentially turn 9 at earliest with normal mana ramp) while drawing two or more cards a turn won't get you the cards you need... If you go twelve draws without finding what you want, between ponder or preordain, then for god's sake you weren't meant to win...
However proliferate speeds this card up all kinds of nice, and the for sure draw should nail in the coffin for your opponent, stacked vs. random draw put the odds greatly in your favor
The new proliferate mechanic will help get this thing going.
Mprime818
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Works well with steady progress...
fbninja
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
With scars of mirrodin now this card could be a real threat. With proliferate such as thrumming bird you can put it at 6 counters relatively quickly. Then you search out mind spring and cast that. Say you throw 6 mana into it and you get to search your deck for 4 cards which isn't right. I think my favorite idea is searching out an echo mage and two mind funerals. This is an instant win unless your opponent has 25 more lands in their deck.
schott
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
All you need is Leyline of Anticipation. Play See Beyond on thier turn or temple bell and into the roil on thier turn with kicker or Foresee or Preordain. Also Lighthouse Chronologist helps too (taking extra turns is key obviously). Run Sleep as well, if they cant attack and dont untap and you take 2 turns with Lighthouse Chronologist they are defenseless, and you can stall them to level Level Chronologist. I dont even run counters in mine i just have answers and scry for them. Thats how I run my Archmage deck and it works like a charm everytime basically.
The thing about Archmage Ascension is that you can't build a deck around it. This is one of those cards that you need a deck that already runs really well and this just happens to go well in it. It feels like one of those cards where you go, "Aha! This was exactly what I was looking for!" That explains why it is currently rated a 2.5/5
Essentially: Don't force this in your deck. It will either fit perfectly or it won't fit at all.
coyotemoon722
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Wow...Steady Progress lets you put 2 counters on this a turn... :D
artemoila
★☆☆☆☆ (1.6/5.0)(4 votes)
@falgorn: i will quit magic before i lose to this card
I am disappoint. no one has mentioned consecrated sphinx yet? I mean, you'll get a counter on each of your opponent's turns, making this combo insane in EDH. then, all you have to worry about is getting counters on it on your turn. In a large EDH game, you could get this running within 1-2 turns of playing it, if you already have the sphinx out.
Lyoncet
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
I think Aaron Forsythe's comment on Planar Portal should give some insight into the difficulty of bringing this card online.
"As I designer, I like this card about a tenth as much as I like Jayemdae Tome. As designers, we strive to make sure the game has the right amount of variance in it; variance leads to replayability and it keeps the outcomes of individual games in doubt longer. Players, at least those whose primary goal is winning, strive to reduce the variance in the game as much as possible. Things like tutors, scry, and card drawing are used to make sure the same spells come up in essentially the same order--or at the very least at close to the right time--game after game. If a deck can consistently assemble a game-winning combo on turn two, players will do that over and over and over. Games like that get really boring really fast, so we need to fight back against that. The mystery of the draw is a vital part of the game."
There's some food for thought.
As for the card itself, let's get the easy part out of the way first: the effect is amazing. With all the draw cards in Blue, you could easily be tutoring 4+ cards per turn this way for very cheap (like with Jace, the Mind Sculptor). If you've built your deck right, unless your opponent has already effectively secured victory, they just won't be able to win. I would argue that this is the strongest effect in its cycle (and it's a very good cycle mind you) since it lets you respond easily to any threat, whereas the other Ascension cards, while powerful, simply help you do one thing better. For instance, all your creatures getting +5/+5 is a great effect, but things like Fog, Holy Day etc. are still going to shut you down just as hard whether or not your Beastmaster Ascension is online. Same goes for the other three - there are cards/strategies that can, at least for a time, shut down the other Ascensions; this one is really the exception to that rule - apart from cards that would hose each card equally. Unless someone's running Mindlock Orb, but that's such a niche card I'd be surprised to see it.
Now for the hard part: getting it to work. Fortunately, while this card started out being pretty aggravating to bring online, it's gotten much, much easier since Scars and Besieged. In particular, getting one extra draw, then casting Steady Progress three times (easy, since it's a cheap instant cantrip) will put this online. If you start adding in things like Arcanis to get a card draw on your opponent's turn, or you drop a Consecrated Sphinx giving you a free draw-2 on each opponent's turn, or throw in a few Thrummingbirds, you can easily get this online by turn 5-6 or so. And in blue control, turn 5-6 is nothing.
One particularly effective combo seems to be to run 3-4 Everflowing Chalice and 3-4 Steady Progress alongside this card. You get an incredible colorless mana base very quickly that can be used to get counters on Ascension, put down your draw cards (Foresee and/or Jace's Ingenuity work particularly well with all the colorless mana) and get Arcanis out (if you're in the right format) alongside Consecrated Sphinx. Perhaps the best thing about this combo is that it doesn't exist only to perpetuate itself; any one of the constituent pieces is a great help on its own, and each can help a number of different cards, strategies, and win conditions.
All that being said, however, the fact remains that this card will only really work in very particular decks. You need to be playing control, you need to have a good draw engine, and you very likely need to be running proliferate. While a good number of blue decks will likely meet these first two conditions, you still need a little extra edge to get this card kicking quickly enough, and tighter decks may not be able to swing it. However, it's much easier to pull off than it seems at first, and the overwhelming power makes it a serious contender. Despite all this, the finicky nature and vulnerability to bounce and disenchant (not hard to work around in blue, but a weakness nonetheless) keep me from giving it the rating its power demands. 3/5.
Oh, and run along with Elixir of Immortality for the most overwhelming graveyard recursion blue will ever see.
Destruction3402
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Works great with Contagion Engine (or any proliferate for that matter)!
MasterOfEfherium
★☆☆☆☆ (1.9/5.0)(6 votes)
Too Bad This Thing Dies To Removal!
Eved
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Combos with Fluctuator. Get where I'm headed with that?
For anyone who doesn't get it, I'm saying use this card with cards that cycle.
Chronostempo
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
this cards has, for several times, given me the game, usually i play with two other friends, my deck is based on drawing cards and having a large hand, a few creatures with */* (*=nº of cards in my hand), some control, hand a hole bunch of drawing cards like rhystic study, temple bell, words of wisdom, flow of ideas, Azami, Lady of Scrolls, and some cards like Venser's Journal. but usually i win with this card in full, all i have to do is "oh look is it my turn? then let me get this card (time strech) so you never play anything again"
Given the introduction of proliferate, and the fact that Blue is quite good at proliferation, i'm going to give this card a 4. If you can counter it up fast, its crazy. steady Progress is crazygood for this. This is under the assumption you can proliferate quest counters.
WarioMan
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Question: Can I prevent myself from decking out with this card by choosing not to draw and instead activating the effect of Archmage Ascension? I use this card in combination with Mind Unbound to help this enchantment's way onto 6 counters. Eventually it got to the point where I searched out my entire library and there is debate where if I have no cards left in my library I must choose to draw. Is this true?
Mode
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Well, there are kind of interesting combos and once the ascention is done, this is crazy good.
But six counters, geez! Yeah, you can also count your opponents' turns when done right and can profilerate multiple times in a single turn, but that still takes such a huge amount of time.
If four counters would have been needed only this would have been pretty interesting.
JFM2796
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I can't believe this card is rated so low. It owns in EDH. I had this out with Font of Mythos and Howling Mine. This thing had its counters loaded up in no time. Each turn I was searching up 4 cards from my library. Absolutely insane.
Counter cost is too high to be depended upon, so really all this is good for is complementing an already-good draw strategy. On the other hand, if it kicks in for even one turn, you can practically lock the game. 4/5 in my book.
LordRandomness
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Think Twice runs excellently with this if you can afford to spend the mana on your turn. Steady Progress, as has been mentioned many times, is practically made for it. Any {T}:Draw effects like Thought Courier are automatic counters. I personally run Enclave Cryptologist because it combos with proliferate, too. Finally, Brainstorming on your opponent's turn gives you a bonus counter!
nope.avi
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Blue is the shortbus color from now on. Most non-control players are fine with this since blue is the douchebag color, and control players well screw them
Kirbster
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Seems almost custom-made for the 250 format.
Kelptic183
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Eats faces in EDH if you build the right deck(say, Wizard Tribal with Lady Azami as the general). Yes, I will search for exactly the right answer to this specific problem, thank you!
pedrodyl
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The problem I find with this card is that if you do have a deck that draws a lot of cards every turn, or if you do try and build a deck around this, by the time it gets online your deck is only twenty cards and you've probably already drawn your best cards. Six quest counters is just enough to where this won't work the way you want it to. 2.5/5
Reliquium
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
That`s an incredibly long waist she has. She looks like a two-legged centaur.
Pinto331
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
While I would love to throw this into my Damia, Sage of Stone EDH deck, I just don't think this thing could possibly stick around long enough to get to use it. Even if you've got a Consecrated Sphinx out, everyone else is going to try to blow this thing up before it gets to six counters. You would either have to be packing a hand full of counterspells and the mana to play them, or count on no one having enchantment removal. Well to be fair if you're drawing two cards a turn that may not be so hard to manage...
Once this thing gets going it's got to be nigh-impossible to stop, especially with the Sphinx. That's the kind of win condition I like. It can turn advantage into victory, compliments a deck rather than require you build around it, and takes strategy and skill to pull off.
Winghsad0w
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I'd imagine this card could be good in a Damia, Sage of stone commander deck. I once made a G/U/B infect deck with her as the commander. Between the draw and proliferate this can go off in no time flat. Having said that using in in modern or legacy sounds like a horrible idea. 4/5 for Commander and Kitchen table awesomeness.
In standard, its clearly too slow and unreliable. In commander, however, with a card drawing commander like Niv-Mizzet, this can really be a great card. First of all, games are slower so you can get this effect going. Second of all, a card drawing commander will give this a counter every turn, and third of all, in a singleton format of a hundred cards, this ability is more useful than ever.
Wormfang
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
In an EDH game, this and phyrexian arena to trigger it. Once triggered search out omniscience and Rush of Knowledge , play omniscience, win
Either way, out of all of the Ascensions, this is the weakest. Beastmaster Ascension works wonders in Token decks, Bloodchief Ascension is a milling god with Mindcrank, and Luminarch Ascension, if cast on turn 2, can activate by turn 3 (if you're playing against 3 others) and solely win you the game with 2-cost 4/4 angels.
Steady Progress is the only way I've seen to get this thing going. It's almost more than perfect for it... almost necessary.
What's even more fun is using Steady Progress, Archmage Ascension, and Pyromancer Ascension. Progress will put a charge on Pyromancer if you've already used one that game, then immediately put another charge on to finish it. Then, if you have an Archmage with at least 1 counter on it, you can Progress during an opponent's turn to put 3 (!) counters on it--2 instantly and then one at the end of the turn--not to mention you've just proliferated twice and drawn 2 cards for 3 mana and a card.
And should you manage to get this baby finally rolling, you get to search your deck for cards and then double them. Woo. Good luck with that though, this is still super hard to use. Plus you'd have to find a U/R deck that uses sorceries or instants and counters on permanants/players...
BEAST CARD! I run a mono blue control/permission deck, combine this with Consecrated sphinx, and life is good!
blurrymadness
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Would work fine in a "Draw Go" deck with Brainstorms and such. You really want to run this with Leyline of Anticipation to make drawing cards in your opponent's turn easier. Might work well with Flicker and Mulldrifter in a 187 style deck.
I wish mine had room for this. It's just.. the deck already runs well..
I think what scares people off is that 4 sounds fair while being attainable. 6 just sounds horrendous to achieve, especially while keeping your counterspells up and at-the-ready. Notice that this, unlike Bloodchief and Luminarch, doesn't get better in multiplayer.
Funny to note you can survive mill because you don't have to successfully search.
Stinga
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Just a little note that makes this card much stronger, if you can use it. The counter trigger can potentially proc on *each* upkeep. I run this in a U/W flicker deck. It works incredibly well with Mulldrifter. A single flicker from any source on an opponent's turn gets me an extra counter. Then, for my turn, I tap the Mulldrifter and, say, a Mistmeadow Witch for the two cards on my turn. This accelerates the Ascension by a lot. When it goes off it lets me search for Venser(or another flicker outlet)+Fiend Hunter. This turns any flicker into a permanent exile through convoluted mechanics, something the deck is not built around but-with help from this card-can use and benifit from.
You can ascend in two turns as long as you have a Thrummingbird on the field, two draw cards in hand, and two other sources of proliferate. With more mana, just do this:
Turn X: Archmage Ascension, Steady Progress, attack with Thrummingbird Turn X: Steady Progress, attack with Thrummingbird
And you're done. Would I ever play this card? No. I like Beseech the Queen, which is never a dead draw and can be used the turn you play it.
Aquillion
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Useless.
This is the definition of a "win more" card. If you're drawing cards rapidly enough to trigger it, then you don't need it anyway.
spartan7023
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
i want to put this in my jin gitaxis commander deck. instead of drawing seven cards a get to search my library for seven cards. lol
Although, if you have fathom mage + either of those cards out, you're already generating insane card advantage, so this card kind of becomes redundant.
SirDrak909
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
As an EDH player, this card looks like fun. Mikokoro, Center of the Sea for some cool political(in multiplayer)/combo advantages.
EDIT: Playtested, and works wonders with Sylvan Library. 5/5 in the right deck.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card does seem fun to build around. Also EDH.
I only really have this in my Niv Mizzet EDH so I can get Curiosity. Other than that, I've never found much use for it.
Dankirk
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You really need to look for proliferate effects to make it worthwhile. If your deck can consistently make 6 separate draw effects happen in a game you don't need to search for anything.
Comments (107)
The amount of extra mana you'll have to spend making sure you draw an additional card on each of your turns means this card costs much more then
If you can put one Wheel of Sun and Moon into the library, you have a very evil cycle going on. Whatever your opponents destroy short of Archmage Ascension or Wheel of Sun and Moon you will be able to get back in no time flat.
If your running green/blue already you might be able to get this thing working without gilder bairn if you are patient. Cards like Shielding Plax and Snakeform can help for this.
3.5
turn1 ? - turn 2 Howling Mine - turn 3 Acrchmage Ascension (1) - turn 4 Reckless Scholar (2) opponents turn 4 Brainstorm (3) - turn 5 another Reckless Scholar or something similar (4) opponents turn 5 another draw card to draw 1 or more and use the Reckless Scholar (5) Clockspinning (6)
If there was a way to draw 2 on your opponents turn right after you get Archmage Ascension you could get the counters one turn earlier even, problem is having the mana. Then you can start searching for your combo or color hoser right away.
plus with the tutor, you can use new jace's first with the build up, on your opponent and not worry about what your top is and you dont lose anything cause you are drawing/tutoring 2 every turn
Combine with Time Warp and you get an extra turn to hit the objective for free.
At least 3.5/5 for combo potential, as the ability to tutor at will is pretty much game over.
Just a completely worthless rare. Even three counters, and it'd still be unplayable. But it'd at least be nice for casual.
On the uppity, though, it's extremely pretty as a foil. But then you realize your foil rare could've been something SO much better.
If you've been drawing more than one card for SIX FREAKING TURNS, especially past 3 turns no less since this is a 3-drop, how come you didn't win already with all the card advantage?
Once you reach post-activation, your cantripping bounce become tutors. Because of all of that power, though, I never want to search for lands in longer games. Null Profusion would be an interesting addition, if I had any to try out. Playing the land would let you tutor for another card, so you never have to worry about wasting a tutor for searching up a land. Better yet, toss in a singleton Spellbook at any point to negate the maximum hand size restriction, and let your cantrips feed your hand size to your heart's content.
Thanks for another Blue Junk Rare Wizards. Do you guys get paid extra every time someone rips one of these and gets angry? Oh wait, you do because now they have to buy another pack.
It's a rare that nobody will want and it's relatively impractical to play anyway.
Why?
Because 6 counters is way...WAY too much, even playing on your opponents' turns.
Think about it. By the time this card goes active, you have likely drawn half of your cards anyway, defeating the point of the search function almost entirely.
To fix this card, change the condition to either drawing a single card (and keeping the 6 counters) or dropping the counter requirement to 2, or the mana cost by 1.
As it is printed, it is woefully underpowered, and a waste of good design space.
It would suck to have your opponent naturalize the enchantment once it reaches 6 counters, right? I can't think of anything worse than that. And it's pretty likely, too. More likely than your opponent casting Living Death after you just discarded Phage to Volrath's Shapeshifter. Much more likely.
So lets recap as to why this card is borderline useless outside of EDH. I like the first ability. It's like a pat on the back for good play behavior. The first ability is fine, the if-clause of the second ability is fine, the problem lies with the resultant clause. I encourage all (or most) who read this to try this experiment: Next time you have a duel (especially against a deck that usually beats you), turn all of you draws into Diabolic Tutors (as though Archmage Ascension were in play with 6 counters on it). You can even still count them as draws for the sake of pumping a Lorescale Coatl. At the beginning of the game, search you library for seven cards and let that be your opening hand. Some of you may think this is silly, some of you may already know what would happen. I encourage all who haven't tried this experiment to try it. Did you win? If so, did you win as easily as you thought you would? If you lost, why? Play a number of games to understand this phenomenon more. Compare these games to how your deck plays with the normal card draw rules. Don't design a deck exclusively for this experiment, try one you already have. If you're playing an opponent/deck that normally beats you, make sure that deck plays normally and draws from the top. Make sure your opponent is fine with this experiment.
I hope someone out there who bothers to read this unreasonably long post will find enlightenment.
If you're drawing this many cards, you have no need whatsoever for a repeatable tutor.
-2/5
@HairlessThoctar:
Just because you're drawing a lot of cards doesn't mean you're getting cards that will help you at that moment. I'd much rather take the time to get enough counters to do the Tutor effect than draw a random card every turn and pray it's something that isn't completely useless in my current situation.
If you go twelve draws without finding what you want, between ponder or preordain, then for god's sake you weren't meant to win...
However proliferate speeds this card up all kinds of nice, and the for sure draw should nail in the coffin for your opponent, stacked vs. random draw put the odds greatly in your favor
Beacon of Tomorrows!
You heard it here first!
~McThor
Moreover, he who rates this card low without considering Teferi's Puzzle Box and Mindmoil should be punished by game loss with Archmage Ascension as the central piece.
Essentially: Don't force this in your deck. It will either fit perfectly or it won't fit at all.
no one has mentioned consecrated sphinx yet?
I mean, you'll get a counter on each of your opponent's turns, making this combo insane in EDH.
then, all you have to worry about is getting counters on it on your turn.
In a large EDH game, you could get this running within 1-2 turns of playing it, if you already have the sphinx out.
"As I designer, I like this card about a tenth as much as I like Jayemdae Tome. As designers, we strive to make sure the game has the right amount of variance in it; variance leads to replayability and it keeps the outcomes of individual games in doubt longer. Players, at least those whose primary goal is winning, strive to reduce the variance in the game as much as possible. Things like tutors, scry, and card drawing are used to make sure the same spells come up in essentially the same order--or at the very least at close to the right time--game after game. If a deck can consistently assemble a game-winning combo on turn two, players will do that over and over and over. Games like that get really boring really fast, so we need to fight back against that. The mystery of the draw is a vital part of the game."
There's some food for thought.
As for the card itself, let's get the easy part out of the way first: the effect is amazing. With all the draw cards in Blue, you could easily be tutoring 4+ cards per turn this way for very cheap (like with Jace, the Mind Sculptor). If you've built your deck right, unless your opponent has already effectively secured victory, they just won't be able to win. I would argue that this is the strongest effect in its cycle (and it's a very good cycle mind you) since it lets you respond easily to any threat, whereas the other Ascension cards, while powerful, simply help you do one thing better. For instance, all your creatures getting +5/+5 is a great effect, but things like Fog, Holy Day etc. are still going to shut you down just as hard whether or not your Beastmaster Ascension is online. Same goes for the other three - there are cards/strategies that can, at least for a time, shut down the other Ascensions; this one is really the exception to that rule - apart from cards that would hose each card equally. Unless someone's running Mindlock Orb, but that's such a niche card I'd be surprised to see it.
Now for the hard part: getting it to work. Fortunately, while this card started out being pretty aggravating to bring online, it's gotten much, much easier since Scars and Besieged. In particular, getting one extra draw, then casting Steady Progress three times (easy, since it's a cheap instant cantrip) will put this online. If you start adding in things like Arcanis to get a card draw on your opponent's turn, or you drop a Consecrated Sphinx giving you a free draw-2 on each opponent's turn, or throw in a few Thrummingbirds, you can easily get this online by turn 5-6 or so. And in blue control, turn 5-6 is nothing.
One particularly effective combo seems to be to run 3-4 Everflowing Chalice and 3-4 Steady Progress alongside this card. You get an incredible colorless mana base very quickly that can be used to get counters on Ascension, put down your draw cards (Foresee and/or Jace's Ingenuity work particularly well with all the colorless mana) and get Arcanis out (if you're in the right format) alongside Consecrated Sphinx. Perhaps the best thing about this combo is that it doesn't exist only to perpetuate itself; any one of the constituent pieces is a great help on its own, and each can help a number of different cards, strategies, and win conditions.
All that being said, however, the fact remains that this card will only really work in very particular decks. You need to be playing control, you need to have a good draw engine, and you very likely need to be running proliferate. While a good number of blue decks will likely meet these first two conditions, you still need a little extra edge to get this card kicking quickly enough, and tighter decks may not be able to swing it. However, it's much easier to pull off than it seems at first, and the overwhelming power makes it a serious contender. Despite all this, the finicky nature and vulnerability to bounce and disenchant (not hard to work around in blue, but a weakness nonetheless) keep me from giving it the rating its power demands. 3/5.
Oh, and run along with Elixir of Immortality for the most overwhelming graveyard recursion blue will ever see.
For anyone who doesn't get it, I'm saying use this card with cards that cycle.
By the by, Throne of Geth and Ichor Wellspring seem to like this card too.
steady Progress is crazygood for this.
This is under the assumption you can proliferate quest counters.
But six counters, geez! Yeah, you can also count your opponents' turns when done right and can profilerate multiple times in a single turn, but that still takes such a huge amount of time.
If four counters would have been needed only this would have been pretty interesting.
then just tutor up some combo and have fun
Steady Progress, as has been mentioned many times, is practically made for it.
Any {T}:Draw effects like Thought Courier are automatic counters. I personally run Enclave Cryptologist because it combos with proliferate, too.
Finally, Brainstorming on your opponent's turn gives you a bonus counter!
Once this thing gets going it's got to be nigh-impossible to stop, especially with the Sphinx. That's the kind of win condition I like. It can turn advantage into victory, compliments a deck rather than require you build around it, and takes strategy and skill to pull off.
4/5 for Commander and Kitchen table awesomeness.
His familiar/trusty steed he/she rides on is Consecrated Sphinx.
Works best when Kami of the Crescent Moon as your general, but... I've played with him as my general, and I can say with confidence that he isn't the best choice. In mono-blue, if you really want draw power, there's Arcanis the Omnipotent. If you want mill power, use Ambassador Laquatus or Ertai, Wizard Adept (to slow the game down).
Either way, out of all of the Ascensions, this is the weakest. Beastmaster Ascension works wonders in Token decks, Bloodchief Ascension is a milling god with Mindcrank, and Luminarch Ascension, if cast on turn 2, can activate by turn 3 (if you're playing against 3 others) and solely win you the game with 2-cost 4/4 angels.
It's not like Pyromancer Ascension is that much weaker than the other 3 either.
What's even more fun is using Steady Progress, Archmage Ascension, and Pyromancer Ascension. Progress will put a charge on Pyromancer if you've already used one that game, then immediately put another charge on to finish it. Then, if you have an Archmage with at least 1 counter on it, you can Progress during an opponent's turn to put 3 (!) counters on it--2 instantly and then one at the end of the turn--not to mention you've just proliferated twice and drawn 2 cards for 3 mana and a card.
And should you manage to get this baby finally rolling, you get to search your deck for cards and then double them. Woo. Good luck with that though, this is still super hard to use. Plus you'd have to find a U/R deck that uses sorceries or instants and counters on permanants/players...
I wish mine had room for this. It's just.. the deck already runs well..
I think what scares people off is that 4 sounds fair while being attainable. 6 just sounds horrendous to achieve, especially while keeping your counterspells up and at-the-ready. Notice that this, unlike Bloodchief and Luminarch, doesn't get better in multiplayer.
Funny to note you can survive mill because you don't have to successfully search.
Turn 1: Forest, Joraga Treespeaker
Turn 2: Island, level up Treespeaker, Thrummingbird
Turn 3: Island, Archmage Ascension, Gitaxian Probe, attack with Thrummingbird, Words of Wisdom on their turn
Turn 4: Island, Steady Progress, attack with Thrummingbird, 3 mana open for anything
You can ascend in two turns as long as you have a Thrummingbird on the field, two draw cards in hand, and two other sources of proliferate. With more mana, just do this:
Turn X: Archmage Ascension, Steady Progress, attack with Thrummingbird
Turn X: Steady Progress, attack with Thrummingbird
And you're done. Would I ever play this card? No. I like Beseech the Queen, which is never a dead draw and can be used the turn you play it.
This is the definition of a "win more" card. If you're drawing cards rapidly enough to trigger it, then you don't need it anyway.
Gilder Bairn
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Fathom Mage
Although, if you have fathom mage + either of those cards out, you're already generating insane card advantage, so this card kind of becomes redundant.
EDIT: Playtested, and works wonders with Sylvan Library. 5/5 in the right deck.
Also, while I'm here:
Conjurer's Bauble
Chromatic Star
Chromatic Sphere
Barbed Sextant
Terrarion
Skycloud Egg
Darkwater Egg
AEther Spellbomb
Lonely Sandbar
Brainstorm
Frantic Search
Words of Wisdom
Lat-Nam's Legacy
Perilous Research
Altar's Reap
Dangerous Wager
Desperate Ravings
Izzet Charm
Gush
Gitaxian Probe
Peek
Thought Scour
Mental Note
Ray of Erasure
Clairvoyance
Opt
Whispers of the Muse
Obsessive Search
Quicken
Reach Through Mists
Sapphire Charm
...And with all those Baubles, Eggs, and mill cards: Visions of Beyond!
blurrrymadness said:
"Notice that this, unlike Bloodchief and Luminarch, doesn't get better in multiplayer."
Consecrated Sphinx, Mind's Eye, Rhystic Study, Mystic Remora, and Sygg disagree about that.