Pointed Discussion

It was only a matter of time. Say hello once again to the undisputed king of planeswalkers.

Singlehandedly makes this FTV series cost $200+ a box; which is still less of an impact than what he has on a game.

Death is in blue, not black. Jace's last power, the one that costs 20 loyalty points, is lethal! However, Spellbook makes it weak if your opponent's got about 40 cards in his/her hand... Now I've just got to find out how to rate 5/5 in "Your Comment Rating"...

OH GOD HE'S BACK

LEAVE MY LIBRARY ALONE

Behold Jace in all his glory and mind sculptiveness!

Ah yes, the Wallet-Sculptor.

I feel it's my duty to repost this comment from Weary_PSI on the original printing:

"If this card were any more powerful it would get up and play the rest of the match for you while you go get a soda."

So instead of the 20th Anniversary being a celebration of enjoying the game available to whoever wants it, we instead get a product that only people with deep pockets can afford. At least the other FTV: 20 cards will be fairly easy to get as singles since plenty of buyers will only be after this card.

From now on I call From the Vault: 20 FtV: Jace. That's the reason most people are buying it. Its a foil Jace that comes with an extra 19 cards. :)

FROM THE DECK: VAULT

This deck wins by BITE MY SHINY FOIL ASS XD

But no it's actually pretty sweet :) You can mana ramp into a Huge Colorless Beatstick, you have early game creatures, and you have Jace, the Mind Sculptor plus half of The Weissman Deck. It's not good for real Vintage, it's not ''nice'', but it WILL make a decent Casual, Badass looking Archenemy Deck! :D I went heavier on the spells that create REALLY fast mana than on permanent sources of mana (fewer Sol Rings and no Ancient Tomb), because Channel is just as good at casting Ulamogs as Fireballs. It also nearly followed the Banned and Restricted List, minus a few EGREGIOUS exceptions! >:D Necropotence/Mystical Tutor!!!. :) Despite T1 Necropotence being AWESOME and "A Thing This Deck Wants to Do", Strip Mine is better/needed than Urborg for this deck, though.

This deck is an expensive a$$hole and a dick move, just like Jace! ^_^ EMBRACE THE DARK SIDE! >:D

23 Lands
3x Cephalid Coliseum- Blue
3x Dryad Arbor - is a Forest (Kird Ape)
4x Forbidden Orchard - Multicolored
3x Maze of Ith - Control the Board
3x Murmuring Bosk - is a Forest/Multicolored
3x Strip Mine - Control the Board
4x Vesuva - Redundancy

13 Creatures
3x Kird Ape - powered by Forests
1x Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind - Necropotence!
3x Serendib Efreet - Big Flier
3x Sundering Titan - powered by Tinker
3x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre - powered by Channel

24 Spells
1x Balance - Wrath
2x Dark Ritual - Mana
2x Channel - Mana
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor - JACE
3x Lotus Petal - Mana/Artifact
1x Mox Diamond - Mana/Artifact
3x Mystical Tutor - Tutor into Balance, Swords to Plowshares, Channel, Tinker or Dark Ritual
2x Necropotence - Draw
1x Nevinyrral's Disk - Wrath/Artifact
1x Sol Ring - Mana
3x Swords to Plowshares - Removal
1x Tinker - Tutor

Anything less than a 4.5 rating on this guy could practically be considered a hate-rate. I've never been up against him personally, but I've seen enough to know that this card is extremely powerful and well worth a 5 star rating.

FTV: 20 should've been twenty foil Islands

Thanks for ruining FTV 20 by including Jace "for value"! Hell if I'll ever get one now...

when they announced FTV:20 together with spoiling the impulse art. i was happy because the MSRP was only $39.99 and i thought i can afford it.

I have never been so wrong. :,(

@chainsmoker, wurmcaller, and everyone else questioning, commenting, or complaining about the price of Vaults: the following is to help you have more accurate expectations and be less dissppointed by being very wrong.

1. the MSRP on these is not a helpful guide, at all. If you dedicatedly use a phone and are willing to drive, you can always find SOME place in your Entire State where they are available for MSRP, but that will usually not be the case.

2. Back when FTV: Dragons showed off Nicol Bolas, collectors believed merely doubling the price of the Vault to around $75-80 would be a good market to keep them at. This makes a lot of profit for WOTC and for LGS, but then, if you love them, you should understand the idea of a commemorative product designed to Super Shiny for Us, and Highly Profitable for them. Theoretically, supposed to be a Win-Win and Happy feels all around. $75-80 is a FINE price to pay for any Vault, and it's a red-letter day when you get one for that :)

3. From the Vaults had 3 illustrious years in a row, with each box containing at least 1 card worth $40, and also containing a card that WASN'T the "best for value" (Nicol Bolas, Berserk, Mox Diamond, that was Still Great! (Kokusho, the Evening Star, Sensei's Divining Top, Aether Vial*)

This has created high expectations for every Vault.

From the Vault: Legends is an indecipherable mess of some actually pretty good cards, but the box ultimately not feeling as awesome because with so many so recently printed cards, it kind of serves to perpetually remind us of the Power Creep of Creatures, and Theros Block might have stuff in it to put FTV:L just to shame....this is a problem with Legendary Creatures actually, not with the Vault XP When Creatures are the Theme, Power Creep is the Theme, and Power Creep is the opposite of Nostalgia...so it's innappropriate for a Vault to be based on Creatures anymore.

I was able to get 2 FTV: Realms for $99 (online) and $35 (in store Preorder) because the Vault was in low demand after the Legends letdown, and because it was a box as Good as Dragons, but not as good as Relics or Exiled.

I would expect 'Fair' future Market Prices of Vaults to range around $120-$150, if you REALLY want to catch a copy from the Interwebs, and $50-$70 to be the brick-and-mortar going rates. Price Creep because Quality Creep. See Premium Deck Series Slivers -> Fire and Lightning -> Graveborn, except imagine success at creating demand instead of failure at creating demand.
This one was just special because of the Jace Button getting hit. But DO NOT be upset that these boxes will never be as cheap as Commander Decks.

1 $50 card

1 $30 card

5 $3-7 cards

and 8 cards btw $2-17 seems to be, after 6 iterations, about the right guessing areas.

Ever wonder why Jace didn't get banned sooner in Standard until the end?

Because people were crazy over the Worldwake boosters, the sales were amazing. If Wizards banned it too soon people wouldn't spend the money. It's al about profit.

Cyberium, you say that like its a bad thing.

It would have been nice to get the set for the MSRP price, but alas...

I would prefer if he wasnt in there so the demand woudlnt be so obnoxious. The worldwake version alone gos for 130$, this foil edition limited quantity already going for 120.

However I am toying with the idea of getting the vault box anyways, 200 dollars is a big chunk of change though :)

Say what you will about this guy, but he is a hell of a lot more playable than Hurloon Minotaur.

I for one am happy to have him and his whole FTV: 20 entourage in my collection to celebrate 20 years of Magic.

Well, of all the ways they could have reprinted him, I suppose this is the least onerous. Imagine if they'd reprinted him in one of the commander decks. Imagine if they'd brought him back into standard by printing him in M14. Imagine any other way. I *think* this was an alright way to do it. Doesn't collapse the value of the people currently owning a Jace, but does somewhat increase the number of them out there.

JtMS's reprinting will always cause an uproar, but this wasn't that bad. Maybe we'll see him reprinted once more in a "Modern Masters 2" (along with the Zendikar fetchlands, please!) and go through the turmoil all over again. =)

i am still trying to figure out how this is good. can someone please explain what i am missing. i prefer memory adept. doubling season doesnt even help this jace.

He is clearly a statement from WotC. They favour blue (And to a certain degree black as well). I have one word for this card: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! What where you thinking???

Pulled this card from a booster pack from target paid for with a gift card ... that was a good day!

@academy_of_spheres: Go play some more magic. Then come back and reread it. Then if you don't understand, play some more. Then repeat until you do understand. That's when you're no longer new to magic.

@TheChort: They're not going to print a modern-banned card in Modern Masters.

Maybe Legacy Masters. lol

To academy of spheres: did you see his last ability? After you activate it, your opponent has about 4 cards in there library and no hand. You basicly win. Might as well say " -12: you win the game. The cause will be listed as library depletion.

Jace the Hand Sculptor.

"Duh."
-Zendikar block design team

I, for one, hope they continue to do things like Modern Masters and FTV20 to keep card values at levels where semi-casual players can afford them. To that end, JTMS needs more reprints, not less.

@Academy_of_spheres: Big Jace provides an insane range of options compared to the amount of mana you spend to cast him. But here, I'll break down the card and its abilities for you:

{1}) First off, Jace's +2 ability lets you fateseal 1. Fateseal has amazing value when you're ahead of your opponent, because you'll be able to deny him/her cards that would've helped them stabilize. It's also interesting to note that Jace TMS is the only 4-mana planeswalker (arguably aside from Gideon, Champion of Justice) with a "+2" or higher ability, quickly getting out of range from burn and unblocked creatures straying in his direction.

{2}) His +0 ability lets you Brainstorm for free. Brainstorm is much more powerful than simply drawing a card, as you'll have much more control over what you want to draw and lets you dig a lot deeper for the cards that you need to gain the board advantage.

{3}) His -1 ability (arguably the most versatile of the lot) lets you Unsummon a creature. This can help clear blockers, protect Jace (if the creature doesn't have haste), and completely eliminate the threat in case you have a counterspell or targeted hand disruption, such as Thoughtseize, at the ready. For extra value, this ability can also be used to return cards such as Snapcaster Mage and Vendilion Clique (or even Mistbind Clique and Spellstutter Sprite if you're playing Faeries) to your hand to abuse their already powerful "enter the battlefield" abilities.

{4}) Finally, his -12 ability, while expensive, is an automatic win in most situations unless your opponent has a very commanding board position. It's worth noting that Jace's ability targets any player, so you could potentially redirect it at the person controlling Jace... Or if you have a Laboratory Maniac out on the battlefield and no cards in hand, you could just exile your own library and win the next time you would draw a card.

So as you can (hopefully) see, Jace is the sort of card that will win you the game in most cases if he reaches his ultimate, and all of his other abilities are either geared towards keeping your opponent on the back foot, abusing strong cards or helping you draw the cards you need in order to protect him. He's an all-in-one package, and he's often times the glue that holds a powerful legacy (or standard, as it were) deck together.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

@DmitryM: Jace exiles your library. You then take all the cards in your hand, shuffle them and put them on the table, and those cards are now your new library. If you have no cards in hand, your library is simply exiled (and you probably lose on your next turn because you can't draw a card). This is why Jace's -12 is seen as an auto-win: If you weren't about to win the game then and there, your chances of ever doing so just vanished into thin air.

If that second ability had a -1 cost instead of 0 and his starting loyalty was only 2, then JtMS would neither be broken nor banned. He would still be amazingly playable but much more balanced. There. Solved.

+2 fateseal 1
+0 Brainstorm
-1 Unsummon
-12 You win the game

So Wizards was just trolling every player and retailer in the world by setting the MSRP for FtV: 20 at $39.99?

Joss, the Sculpted 1R
2 Loyalty

Planeswalker -- Joss

+1: Look at the bottom card of your library.

0: The next time you play a spell this turn, counter it.

-1: Return target creature you control to its owner's hand.

-7: Pick up your cards and shuffle them together.

The only reason he isn't a 5/5 is because people who've played against him hate his guts.

Holding a Worldwake Jace feels like holding the launch key for a nuclear bomb.

He's all things to all people. If you play legacy and your deck can make the uu component of his cost, then running this is a no-brainer. He's draw power, tactical control, and a standalone win-con all in one card.

BTW, I really, really applaud Wizards for having the guts to reprint this in FtV. Perfect venue for the reprint: makes it more available without upsetting the metagame of formats where he's legal. Plus, so many of the other 19 cards are now all over the place in the aftermarket for great deals because people chased this set for this fella!

I hope they have the guts in future FtV sets to follow suit with Sinkhole and Force of Will. The only limitation for FtV prints should be if they're on the reserved list (http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy ): and, honestly, they've even crossed that line before, and no one was any worse for the wear.

Sure, you can Black Lotus into a Jace TMS Turn 1, but I'd rather IsIand + Mox Ruby into a Turn 1 Storm Crow any day of the week (except Tuesdays).

-Swag_Crow

I really like how the third ability is just like "Hey guys? Are-are you gonna use me sometime? I'm really good, I promise!"

the gayest card ever...

Jace, the meta sculptor.

You know a card is going to be stupid when it has an extra-small art box just to make room for the rules text.

+2 - anti-scry
0 - Brainstorm
-1 - helps protect jace
-12 - ...WHAT WERE THEY THINKING!?

But seriously if you aren't running 4 of these in legacy you're either poor or crazy. Or both. If you're not running a proxy of him in any blue EDH deck you're stupid.

Hmmm… No offense, but if you want milling, you should use Jace, memory adept.

Without a doubt the "face" card of Magic as a whole.

might as well scrap all the nonblue mana types, they are irrelevant.

That being said, Jace looks horrible without that hood on.

see new players 2 things
1: this is what jace look like before frackin emmara tandaris told him the powers of friendship
2: if your opponent plays this card burn it

Never have I ever seen such a planeswalker rape my black reanimator-yawgwin-agony deck with such ease I just wanted to throw a tragic slip on him once he went ultimate.

Still, this card. 5/5.

Liliana of the Veil has dethroned him as the best planeswalker ever

Hes getting another reprint!.. In Vintage Masters... an online only version... :(

This card looks amazing, in spite of what all the haters say, however, I wish there had been far more to give out, putting him in a FTV product was a slap in the face to anyone who wanted one cheep

@Observant1: I disagree, as someone who has played with both a great number of times, I can say with near certainty that JtMS is better then Liliveil, however, if you only meant at protecting themselves, then yes, Lili is better, but she doesn't win games like Jace does.

5/5 Stars

I have an idea for a new card:

Card Name: Jace, the Know-It-All

Mana Cost: UU

Converted Mana Cost: 2

Types: Planeswalker - Jace

Card Text:
+3: Draw three cards. Target opponent compliments you on your Magic prowess in a worshipful manner.
+2: Target player exiles all cards from his or her hand, and skips their next draw step.
-1: Target player with no cards in his or her hand loses the game.
-7: The next time you win the game this game, take ownership of target opponent's entire deck.

Loyalty: 5

Expansion: Return to Broken

Rarity: Super Duper Mythic Rare

Card Number: 1

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sound fair? Well neither does JTMS, but Wizards decided to print it anyways!

Hey at least JTKIA can't defeat multiple opponents in multiplayer the turn it comes down, and that has to count for something fairness wise.

JTMS is 5/5 easily, since if it isn't then what is?