Pointed Discussion

God I hate this card. Mostly because I kept getting it in packs of Ravnica rather than dual lands or Loxodon Heirarch admittedly, but still.

And yet, one is drawn to the thing one hates... after many, many months, a friend and I finally actually managed to make a deck using this card where Ashnod's Altar wouldn't have been strictly better in its place. Not a good deck, but hey, that's not the point, is it?

? ? ? ? ? What are you talking about? The card is great when combined with the right cards. Really, I don't know why everyone is rating this card so low. Think about it; Savra, Queen of the Golgari, Grave Pact, Bitterblossom, Doubling Season. With cards like these you can build a deck that works perfectly around complicated enchantments like this. Get a token generator (which is cheaper with the funnel in play) and make tokens. Get more tokens with doubling season, then play grave pact and Savra to force your opponents to sac creatures while maintaining an army of tokens. I'm sure there are other great combos that work well with this card, but I'm definitely not going to waste my time telling them to a simpleton like you.

Hey hey, calm down! :D

...I agree, though. I'm a huge fan of the Ravnica block and I'd love to be lucky enough to finally get this card (or Glimpse the Unthinkable, even better^^) - instead I keep getting dual lands (which doesn't exactly suck, but still...).

Best regards from Hamburg :-)

Good card with march of the machines and lots of 1-2 cost artifacts leading up to something.

Has potential as a combo card, but Ashnod's Altar is almost strictly better, and a single break in your combo could mess up your entire deck for good.

goes good with the guy who makes festering goblin tokens, and festering goblins. also that iguanar dude. just use it with various burns to compliment sacking goblins or tokens

If this only costed , was a cip/etb-cantrip, or if it reduced the costs by , this would be more interesting. Like this, it's mostly a pitious junk card.
Nontheless my inner Johnny tried to find use for this card.

Since it appears to be so bad, Donating it seems to be an interesting idea. But don't forget that you'll also have to sacrifice a creature, and although it might even kill a control deck, it possibly won't have a notable effect on your opponent if he/she's playing a creature-based deck.

One of a few cases where this could find use over Ashnod's Altar is by bypássing the counter effect.
So you could use cards which have this as inherent effect like Obliterate, Urza's Rage, which can act as Lightning Bolt, or Wreak Havoc as Shatter/Sinkhole. Banefire will work if you pay or more, Demonfire with an empty hand.

Vexing Shusher, Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Multani's Presence can affect any other spells.
Dovescape is instane with these!

With Multani's Presence, countered spells provide a new card, so if you play it use cards which like being in the graveyard, like Bridge from Below or False Demise / Shade's Form along with Iridescent Drake (enables infinite saccing!), or artifacts with a cost of or less (good when used with Storm cards - preferably Tendrils of Agony or Grapeshot).

Another enchantment choice to fuel the Storm count is Null Profusion / Recycle. These are very effecient draw engines with BF since they also return cards for countered spells, therefore these enchantments will do Mulatini's Presence's job at least equally well once you can afford / and a creature.

The token Spellshapers can ensure "saccing fuel". (Preferably Skirk Ridge Exhumer which produces Festering Goblins with a handy "pig"/"put into graveyard"-effect, and Icatian Crier, which produces two tokens at once.)
But using them means that you will encounter heavy card disadvantage and overall will only have your spells reduced by since you have to spend mana on the Spellshapers' abilities' activation cost.
Therefore i'd use Vexing Shusher instead, or even forget about the entire combo and simply use a Medallion or a Cloud Key.

But don't worry, there is more saccing fuel:
Tukatongue Thallid provides two solid 1/1 for .
Promise of Bunrei makes three 1/1 for just , yet requires having creatures.
Bitterblossom is a reliable life-for-token trade each turn (and is tempting with Obliterate as well.)
These are great with fetchlands:
Dryad Arbor, being a land creature, is a great saccing base.
Bloodghast returns via Landfall.


Mind that Planeswalkers get cheaper, too - you can cast Garruk Wildspeaker for , Elspeth, Knight-Errant for (providing a token each turn while increasing her loyality) and Sarkhan Vol for (who has a handy Threaten effect).

With all those token generators and loyality counters, Doubling Season is also a pretty good idea, especially for only.
Twilight Drover might also come handy.

Tapping doesn't hurt if you sac your stuff anyways, so spells with Conspire (like Burn Trail) or Evoke (like Scatter the Seeds) can also be useful. Chord of Calling might bring a creature onto the battlefield with a cost equal to the mana spend for the Chord. All the better if its a token engine like a Symbiotic creatures, Sengir Autocrat, Sprouting Thrinax or Deranged Hermit.

Since you're saccing a lot of creatures, "pig"-effects are awesome with BF.
Nether Traitor is another card i prefer using over Spellshapers, although note that it even synergizes with them.
Black Market provides mana accel.
Gravepact gets rid of your opponent's creatures.
Fecundity provides great card advantage - compared to regular cantrips you'll effectively pay less!

Overall the only card i'm urgently missing is a reverse Gaea's Herald for some real Blood Funnel...

I was thinking this card combined with Guile and Minds Desire. You'll only need something to sacrifice blood funnel to when you feel you've got enough storm effects. Maybe Claws of Gix? Could be an interesting deck :)

I haven't used it yet, but as soon as I saw this I saw its Savra potential. I was kinda surprised to see it rated so low. There are a lot of cards that benefit from a creature sacrifice. I'd like to try this out and see how it performs. It seems like it'd be interesting and educational.

Very Rakdos flavor, but this card might gain the best benefit from Galgari guild, such as Bloodbond March.

The biggest flaw I see here is that creature is the easiest of all permanents to destroy. One sweeper, you won't be able to play non-creature spells till you have another creature out.

Probably could have some use alongside with cards that create creature tokens such as Kjeldoran outpost or with creatures that return from the graveyard. Or with uncounterable spells, mmmmm....

Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder loves this card, Diabolic Tutor for ? Yes thank you. Sins of the Past for Diabolic Tutor's normal cost? even better..

3.5/5 for combo ability alone

Determined
Dryad Arbor for fodder and play the funnel the turn before. You then run a suite of artifact accelerants like Grim Monolith and Dimir Signet along with (free) artifact cantrips such as Prophetic Prism (to filter more of that monolith mana). Rebuild yourself for U and draw you win condition.

Great with creatures that multiply. Sprouting Thrinax, Roc Egg,Tuktuk the Explorer, Mitotic Slime, just to name a few.

I wish this ability worked on everyone and not just the user. :\

@savagebrain

Let me tell you why this card is bad, because you are apparently quite the "simpleton" yourself. First of all, it is a black enchantment that reduces noncreature spells only by 2 mana. Most of black's noncreature spells are instants or sorceries that are either some variant of destroying a nonblack creature or forcing your opponent to discard a card. The kill spells average at around 3 mana- and I really wouldn't want to sacrifice a creature just to shave off one mana from terror. That leaves the discard spells and the best of those don't get reduced at all- duress and thoughtseize both cost {B} and hymn to tourach cost {B}{B}. The amount of mana shaved off is really not worth sacrificing a creature.

Now, there are also much better ways to sacrifice creature tokens. Bone splinters, fleshbag marauder, innocent blood and barter in blood are all so good on their own you hardly need gravepact (and certainly not savra- she's just a strictly worse legendary creature version of gravepact at best).

What makes this card horrible is you have to sacrifice a creature to play any noncreature spell, or otherwise counter it entirely. Black has far better ways to power out spells without so harsh a drawback and with far more appealing effects, from the simple and classic dark ritual to the famous cabal coffers to the notorious bubbling muck and rain of filth and the less well known cabal ritual. Oh, and you can spend all that extra mana on creatures.

Love this card. I use it in a Vintage enchantment-based control deck. I fuel it with Bitterblossom. With Arcane Laboratory it never gets too detrimental. I like it over Ashnod's Altar because it's an enchantment for my Replenish and Serra's Sanctum to have synergy with, and costs 1 less. Makes it easier to drop giant game-changing enchantments.

3/5 for the art? ;D

"Got a buttload of creatures and don't know what to do with them?"

"Overrun?"

"No! Killem!"
(Reflects no personal opinion about the card)

hmmm looks like a hard card to use, but i wouldnt say it is completely useless

I built a deck revolving around this, Multani's Harmony, and Riddlesmith to cycle through a lot of cogs. It wasn't very good.

Use in conjunction with lullmage mentor to spawn some merfolk for your countered spells, with this card allowing much better control decks. You can use the merfolk tokens to either counter your opponents spells via lullmages ability or as sack fodder to make the counterspells worthwhile and cost the same as Counterspell but with the bonuses of the extra abilities. some examples of the spells are rewind, scattering stroke, summoners bane, fuel for the cause, dismiss, dismal failure, discombobulate and last word. Each spell you counter will give you fuel to sacrifice for your next spell, with a win condition of your own choice.

This would have been so, so dirty and wrong if the last line read instead, "Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, sacrifice a creature and you lose 1 life."

Definitely a johnny card, I play it with lifeline, eternal witness, and sprouting thrinax to power out akroma's memorial, banefire, and eldrazi monument. Lifeline is key, also good for thran quarry.

You'd have to pay 2UBBR to cast Nicol Bolas, not UBBR, unless you have two of these of out. There are easier ways to cast Nicol Bolas than playing two Blood Funnels and a token-making card to reduce his cost by 4.

I really wish its drawback reads "Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, counter that spell unless you discard a card.", so you could build a creatureless deck. Now you have to balance between noncreature spells and creature spells. Or you can fill the deck with noncreature token spells, but you always have to cast some of them before the funnel, and if someone uses some mass removal spell you're in serious trouble...

Maybe a WB deck with Belfry Spirit, Icatian Crier and/or Twilight Drover... Spectral Procession can be nice, too...

3/5, because it's a little too specific in its requirement...

Hey, look! They remade this card! AND made it better! See?

I find the Reassembling Skeleton suggestion hilarious. Non-creature spells cost less yet more. What is the purpose of even running this then? X-D

I say Bloodghast and/or Epochrasite, as both can resurrect themselves with little effort.

As for noncreature spells to have fun with being cheaper...Army Of The Damned, turn 3 Head Games or turn 3 Monomania or a turn 3 Painful Quandary, and of course a cheaper Sorin's Vengeance/Sins Of The Past combo.

I love Boseiju, Who Shelters All and Blood Funnel.

Effectively, you turn 2 life into 2 mana when playing instants and sorceries. It's not a great combo, but in a multiplayer game, you can use Boseiju, Who Shelters All with Dovescape and Blood Funnel for lots of cheap, token-making fun. Your uncounterable instants and sorceries will generate bird tokens while doing useful things, and they cost two less mana to cast at the cost of either a bird or 2 life. (Note: You will have to sack a creature to cast Dovescape with Blood Funnel since Boseiju, Who Shelters All only protects instants and sorceries. For the same reason, you can't land a Blood Funnel after you play Dovescape.)

This thing is so Johnny it hurts. I mean seriously, am I the only one that realized this thing makes Brimstone Volley into ", Instant, As an additional cost to cast Brimstone Volley, sacrifice a creature. Brimstone Volley deals 5 damage to target creature or player." That makes it into a Goblin Grenade. At instant speed. With no creature restriction. This thing has a 2.1 why?

Why the poor rating? This card is never going to see anything approaching play, but think of the casual applications. Vexing Shusher is beckoning....

@ DarthParallax, did you even mind reading the card before you posted or USED it?

You said: "Why, yes I WOULD like to sacrifice two meaningless minion tokens to cast Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for only UBBR."

Card says: "Noncreature spells you cast cost less to cast. Whenever you cast a noncreature spell, counter that spell unless you sacrifice a creature."

How would you play Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for with this card?

Exactly, this card doesn't do that.

The card you want is Ashnod's Altar and it's high rated for the reason that it can do madness like letting you play Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for and 2 sacrifices.

All in all loved Mode's post, really epic puttin that all together so nicely, makes my life easy.

Shame on you Parallax, shame...

Sigarda, Host of Herons
Hahaha Oh wait.
Yeah. Screw Blood Funnel.
Not even Sigarda can fix it.

Blood Funnel + Guile + Tendrils of Agony Free storm! You wont even need to sac Guile, since the storm stacks would keep building up AND casting as your Funnel counters the original.

Can be usefull in mostly-creature decks with few powerfull spells. Imagine it in zombies using it to cast Army of the Damned for 6 ... or 4

Nether Traitor, Golgari Germination, and Bridge from Below laugh at your so-called "drawback" and turn it into board advantage.

I'm going to have to try this in my EDH zombie token mill deck. Sounds like it could get my Rooftop Storm out an extra two turns early and with Gravecrawler, you can't go wrong.

Amorgan: You use two copies of this? Duh?

Some of the first cards to came to mind were Living Death and Demonic Rising, altough I'm sure there are plenty of others

Wait a second. this curves perfectly with Assemble the Legion. And the turn after that you can start some Dragon Appeasement.

With creatures like Bloodghast and Gravecrawler running around these days... this might start showing up in Modern... at least I am going to try it ;)

Why, yes I WOULD like to sacrifice two meaningless minion tokens to cast Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker for only UBBR.

The First Law of Magic says that once you become One With Nothing, there isn't a single bad (non-vanilla creature) card in the game. In fact they're all broken in half. o.O

Amorgan: wow. A Magic player that can't multiply a card's effect by 2 o.O Have you never in your life had two copies of a card on the battlefield? In your hand? In your deck? Um...in front of you?

You don't even have to own the card to 'see' it -_- Everyone else understood perfectly well what I meant. :P Please take remedial lessons with Riku of Two Reflections about the Number 2.

What's that? Counter my Banefire, my Demonfire, my Last Word, Obliterate, Slaughter Games, Volcanic Fallout, Wreak Havoc, Supreme Verdict, and my kicked Urza's Rage? Okay.

T1- Multani's Presence
T2- Blood Funnel and every 2CMC artifact you can imagine
T3- Slag Fiend? + reckless charge?

Or you could use this to tutor up nearly any card in your deck.

Yay a use for Mishra, Artificer Prodigy in EDH! Cast a non-creature artifact for {2} less, Mishra's ability goes on the stack, put this on the stack above it. Your spell gets countered but you can then get it back from the graveyard thanks to Mishra. Of course, its a pretty convoluted combo just to make non-creature artifacts cost {2} less and this card is pretty bad without Mishra out and in EDH Mishra's pretty bad without this out, but still.

Out of curiosity, if you used this to cast a noncreature spell that can't be countered, would that negate the countering effect? Simply put, could this build a Jund Deck involving Slaughter Games and Wreak Havoc?
Furthermore, what about Banefire and Boseiju, Who Shelters All?
And of course, finish it all off with Obliterate.

Endrek Sahr and this go well together, as you almost never run out of things to sacrifice so long as you continue to play a few creatures now and then.

Guys.... Guys.... GUYS!
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy

That is all.