Pointed Discussion

A riddle:
You are playing a goldfish, on each turn you play a basic land, you may cast one creature in total, and cannot use the land for anything other than casting the creature. What is the fastest that you can kill your opponent?
This kills your opponent turn 7, as can Lost Leonin and Slith Firewalker. Is anything faster than turn 7? There are at least three shades that can do it by turn 6 if you allow use of the land. But is there another way to get under 7?

if you count commander cards, Ruhan of the Fomori gets the job done turn 7
also desecration elemental works nicely turn 7
if you can discard, which you probably can, avatar of discord t7
drinker of sorrow t7
mijae djinn t7 if you win the flips
phylactery lich t7 if you're allowed artifact lands
the classic phyrexian negator t7
ruinous minotaur t7
phyrexian vatmother t7
viashino sandstalker t7
viashino cutthroat t7
pardic dragon can t6 w/ firebreathing and the suspend
tempting wurm can t6
if you have three others in hand, Tarox Bladewing can t5
and since you are playing a goldfish who doesn't know how to play magic and block, hunted horror does it turn 5

Although Thallid won't win when they are at 20, if they are at 22 then its the fastest 'single' creature killer at CMC 1. And he gets better than Woolly if you the target is at higher healths.

Assuming your health could be anything, then Death's Shadow is a turn 2 or 3 win (depending if you allow for -health for any reason) but I assume you are at 20 as well.

Leveler is a turn 7 win if not being able to draw doesn't make you lose.

Etched Monstrosity is turn 7 since you could remove its counters next turn before you attack.

Greater Gargadon is kinda close, since you could sac the lands and get it to kill 8.

Boldwyr Heavyweights is turn 7 since your opponent doesn't have creatures. Same with Desecration Elemental.

Thunderblust is turn 7 thanks to Haste.

Does he have cards? Turn 6 with Nyxathid

Turn 7 Phyrexian Hydra that gives me an idea.
Turn 6 Ogre Menial

Ah there is a few more Infects but none are faster

I'm not seeing any at 6 power, since they need an extra turn over the 7 powers, none at power 5 that are below 6 turns. 4 need 5 turns more, so none there, now at 3 power, not possible, there is a 3/3 for one and its turn 8.

So to beat turn 6, its needs to have an pump or damage ability

Flamekin Brawler is the perfect firebeather for this and he does turn 6 too.

Ah here, Orcish Captain can win, if you didn't miss a flip, turn 4, I think that its the best I got for you.

spawnwrithe is a turn 6 win
jenara ashura of war is turn 6 too

Blue just got the fastest racing creature in Magic printed in Innistrad. o.O

Scab Ruinator. Turn 5 kill (cast from grave turn 1 after discarding it)

TTThe F-F-F-F-UUUUUU-----? BLUE gets the best creature?

didn't see that one coming :P The Color Pie is dead.

buh. roh. kuhn.

Flesh Reaver is turn 7.
So is Maro.
Wild Nacatl hits for 2 then 3s and gets there on t7. Rogue Elephant does 1 point of overkill damage as does Scythe Tiger.
Dandân is t7
Primordial Hydra t7 (4-2, 5-4, 6-8, 7-16)
Old Fogey is t8...
Adamaro is t6
For an 8 year old kid who is 10 feet tall, Avatar of Me will kill on t6
Coiling Woodworm is really fast if everyone drops forests. t6
7 zombies in hand? Ghastly Remains works for you on turn 6
Suck at magic? Gus is a turn 4.
Jumbo Imp can turn 5 with luck.
Molten Sentry can turn 7.
Skyshroud War beast can attack for 4, 5, 6, then 7 on turn 6 on the draw against nonbasic lands.

Mayor of Avabruck gets the job done on turn 6.

T1: Land. Go.
T2: Land. Cast Mayor of Avabruck
T3: Transform to Howlpack Alpha, swing for 3, and get a 3/3 wolf token.
T4: Swing for 6, and get a 3/3 wolf token.
T5: Swing for 9, and get a 3/3 wolf token.
T6: Swing for the win.

Geist of Saint Traft and Stromkirk Noble win on turn 7. I'm sure there a bunch of others in Innistrad as well what with all of the transformations. New Phyrexia probably has a lot as well with the Infect mechanic.

Flavor text makes me think of waking up and being like O_O where did all this stuff come from

If you can use mana for activated abilities, then T6 Ludevic's Test Subject. Alternately, if you can use the lands' non-mana-producing activated abilities, then Glistener Elf + Pendelhaven is T6.

Kruin Outlaw and Instigator Gang are T7 when transformed. An Allosaurus Rider played on T1 is a T6.

Also, loophole exploitation: On T5, cast 4 Pact of the Titans and Urabrask, the Hidden, then swing with Urabrask and all 4 of your Titans for T5 game. Pact of the Titan is not casting a creature, and you are not using the lands for anything other than casting the creature. Alternately, Summoner's Pact + Progenitus + Blazing Shoal + Glistener Elf is a T2. Heck, two Blazing Shoals, two Summoner's Pacts or Progenituses, and any one-drop is a T2.

Other loophole exploitation says that you can use mana produced only from creatures to play more creatures. You could try casting Grand Architect on turn 3, then using it to play Myr Superion. However, that would be a T7, and there are probably better ways to exploit that loophole.

Storm Crow gets it done turn 6... of the previous game.

T0: Leyline of Anticipation, Mox Sapphire, Mox Jet, Mox Ruby, Tinker (Blightsteel Colossus), Unnatural Speed.
T1: Island, Attack, Win.

This is one of my favourite cards. I like to play a birds of paradise on the first turn and on the second turn come out with the Woolly Thoctar. I also like to play a shield of oversoul on it and when I'm playing opponents with control magic in their deck I like to have disenchant or creeping mold in my hand to protect it.

I can do it fast-ish.
Turn 1: Land, exile 3 Elvish Spirit Guide (I'm not cheating, I'm bending the rules). Play Elvish Piper
Turn 2: Exile last spirit Guide, tap the piper for Progenitus
Attack turn 3 and 4.
I only used the land once, to play a creature, and then paid it's activation cost with mana from another source

Edit:
Also, Vexing Devil can t6 if you assume that they don't make you sac it.

Markov Blademaster is a T6. Remember its ability resolves for the first strike before normal combat damage is dealt.

Fun game, isn't this?

So....frikin'.......awesome. I want.

This has been the most entertaining and enlightening comments thread I've ever seen on Gatherer. Thanks, folks :)

I was bored, so I scoured gatherer. Here's some T5s:

Student Of Warfare
T1: Plains, Student
T2: Plains, LvUp->2, 3 damage
T3: Plains, LvUp->5, 3 damage (6)
T4: LvUp->7, 8 damage (14)
T5: 8 damage (22)

Flailing Soldier
T1: Mountain, Soldier
T2: Mountain, Buff+2, 4 damage
T3: Mountain, Buff+3, 5 damage (9)
T4: Mountain, Buff+4, 6 damage (15)
T5: Mountain, Buff+5, 7 damage (22)
(Assuming your goldfish opponent can't be bothered to tap their unused mana)

I've looked at pretty much every creature ever that could be a potential on-its-own win, because I was bored, but I've pretty much come to the conclusion that T5's about the best you're going to do (this assumes no spells whatsoever other than the creature, and only basic lands. No opponent interaction.)

There's still a theoretical Turn 4 win with Mindshrieker, if the total CMC of the cards milled after three ability uses (one on T3 and two on T4) is 18 or more (That's 6 each, which isn't beyond plausibility).

EDIT: Oh nevermind. I just realized we are discussing *single* creatures winning *on their own* without being buffed by other spells :/

You all must realize that this discussion is awefully unrealistic since your opponents will most likely have played creatures and/or removal cards. That Wolly Thoctar is gonna get nailed by something as soon as it hits the table.

Anyway, as for the card, the 5/4 body for 3CMC is awesome, but it does require to play. Mana accel won't help here because most of the boost early on produce a tapped land or more green or colorless mana. It's a beatstick that usually causes alot of panic for your opponents if played on turn 3. In a Naya deck this is a must, especially with all those lovely white/red removals and buff spells. For mono-green, we now have Leatherback Baloths for 3CMC, all green but still 3. I'd love to see this thing fight a leatherback baloth, that would be awesome.

4.5/5 for what it is, a 5/4 creature

Seriously good card for a three drop if you've got the mana - and if you're playing three color and don't have the mana, you're doing it wrong (assuming you're hardcasting this... there are many cards in {G}{W}{R} that can tutor this).

Omnath, Locus of Mana manages a T6, but there are T5's out there.

Immolating Souleater Gets it done turn 5 if you pay 18 life.

Kargan Dragonlord can do it turn 6.
T1 Mountain
T2 ~
T3 3 levels swing for 2
T4 4 levels swing for 4
T5 1 level, 4 pump, swing for 12

My favorite vanilla creature!

Pack Rat can get it in turn 5 by himself
Turn 2: Pack rat
Turn 3, make copy, swing for 2 (one 2/2)
Turn 4 make copy, swing for 6 (two 3/3s) (8 total)
Turn 5, make copy, swing for 12 (three 4/4s)(20 total)
I think that's a record by looking at these comments

Wooly Thoctar VS Leatherback Baloth!

ROUND 1! FIGHT!

Cragganwick Cremator can get it done turn 5 if you're lucky enough to discard Emrakul

EDIT: Assuming the Goldfish doesn't understand how to block I think a Hunted Horror could T5 as well.

If using the abilities isn't a problem, Mindshrieker can win turn three assuming a gleemax on the top of my library.

I know artifacts are against the rules, but if I cast isochron scepter as my "creature" and imprint Research // Development on it, I think a turn five is possible. Actually, if the rules were changed to allow any one card instead of just creatures, would there be anything truly noteworthy?

You could turn eight with luminarch ascension.

Nature's revolt is a turn seven.

With Karn liberated I can +4 two malignus out of my hand and proceed to restart the game for an incredibly stupid technically turn one win... I guess this is why we initially only allowed for creatures.

Meh I'd rather stick to Loxodon Smiter.

Love it. Love it love it love it. Prefer to Leatherback Baloth

Markov Blademaster - T6

Student of Warfare- T5

Tinker, Blightsteel Colossus. Turn 4 win.

'I tell ya Steve, every day I wake up and my bed's like Mardi Gras in a butcher's. Dead virgins and fruits and jewels everywhere. No, I still don't know who's behind it.'

Click this to upgrade comment quality.

shotoku, you and many others appear to have forgotten about one of the critical conditions in the original challenge. " on each turn you play a basic land, you may cast one creature in total, and cannot use the land for anything other than casting the creature." (emphasis mine)

@Dankirk

Because discussions on the outdated gatherer censorship and comments like "Holy Thoctar, Batman!" are more "quality" than these ones?

I'll still with my duel decks comments thank you very much.

Alright, here's one:

T1: Forest, birds of paradise
T2: Plains/mountain, Woolly thoctar
T3: Basic Land, Cliffrunner Behemoth, swing for 10 and gain 5 life
T4: kill

Turn 5 - Hunted Horror although that's relying rather heavily on your opponent literally being a goldfish, which is probably a bit much.

If you're very lucky you can do it turn 6 with Wolf-Skull Shaman.

Besides those (and others mentioned in other comments) I'm struggling to find any that do it in less than 7.

Many of you seem to have missed the clause 'You cannot use the lands for anything other than casting the creature'. Really this means that you can't spend mana for anything else at all as the two other ways to get mana are creature abilities (which would only be useful if that creature had a separate game winning ability that costs only marginally more mana which would be broken) and 0 mana accelerators such as Black Lotus which are technically not against the rules laid out, but 4 black lotuses into Blightsteel Colossus is a cheap way to win turn 2). So let's assume you can't spend mana for ANYTHING other than casting the creature

This means that most activated abilities are out the window because, to be worth it, they would have to (without cost) do one of three things:

Heavily and directly damage your opponent (as in at least the 'required powers' below per pop) which, since it's essentially just an unblockable attack, would be broken.

Produce a token (or creature) capable of winning the game for you; a really slow way to go since you lose 2 turns to summoning sickness rather than the usual 1. Note that Marit Lage (unfortunately) requires a non-basic land.

Permanently buff the creature itself into a game winner. Note that it would have to add at least its starting power in permanent buff to be worth using the ability and not simply attacking. A likely creature? I think not.

Note that I'm assuming that this cost involved tapping in the above. While not technically a requirement I'd be surprised if you could find a competitive ability that didn't require it. The only other costs you could likely pay are life (the absolutely tiny selection of competitive life-for-damage cards are all well known and not sufficient) or cards (you can only discard 5 if you're going to hit every land drop, as required. That lets Wild Mongrel win on turn 10).

So activated abilities are out. How about direct damage, with only static abilities?

Assuming you want to win in less than 7 turns...
A one drop would need at least 4 power.
A two drop would need 4 power with haste, or 5 without haste.
A three drop would need 5 with, or 7 without.
A 4 drop: 7 with, 10 without.
5 drop: 10 with, 20 without.
6 drop: 20 and would need haste.

Clearly none of these exist.

I should, as an aside, point out that I've checked every infect card (and every unleashed card, for good measure). Some make it on turn 7, none are faster.

Although this is hardly proof, I think it's pretty conclusive evidence that you need a triggered ability, and possibly a static ability or three to go with it.

So, basically, it's time to trawl Gatherer for the best triggered abilities; my guess is that it's worth looking for damaging ETB effects, counter accumulators (Scute Mob is T7) or Token makers (although I've checked most of those).
Who knows though; the possibilities are virtually endless!

Missed the point last time, i'll try harder this time.

Turn 1- Plains, Hada Freeblade.

Turn 2- Island, Halimar Excavator, Mill 2

Turn 3- Island, Halimar Excavator, Mill 6 more (3 for each Halimar) (8 in total so far.)

Turn 4- Island, Halimar Excavator, Mill 12 more (4 for each excavator), (20 in total so far), Another Halimar, Mill 20 more (5 for each excavator) (40 so far)

Turn 5- Plains, Any ally creature to mill for 24 more card, 6 from each excavator, and that should be 64 cards.

If i can use a Harabaz Druid...

Turn 1- plains, Freeblade.

Turn 2- forest, Druid.

Turn 3- island- Halimar, mill 3, Tap the druid for 3 blue and the last land for another halimar, mill 8 (11 so far), and then a third Halimar mill 15 (26 so far)

Turn 4- 3 lands and five from the druid makes 8 mana. 4 of it for another excavator mills 24 more, (50 so far) and another ally mills another 28 for a total of 78, milling out your deck, sideboard, and 3 favorite cards on turn four.

And i didnt even attack.

T1: Fetch, Search for Forest, Wild Nacatl
T2: Sacred Foundry, Bloom Tender
T3: Plains, Woolly Thoctar, Tarmogoyf, Lightning Bolt
T4: Swing for 14.