@drpvfx: Gotta agree on that. A lot of people hate on "opponent chooses" cards, but if both choices are sufficiently brutal then there really isn't much of a choice!
Another complaint that people might have is, "they can just let you have the creature after they've got a titan on the board." If your opponent's stabilized a big enough creature board, mono-red has probably already lost the game. You have to make 20 damage happen faster than that, if you're playing a deck with this guy in it.
Here's an assessment from someone who's only recently begun playing Red: While *yes*, the fact that your opponent gets to choose whether this is a 4/3 creature or a 4 point Lava Axe *does* weaken it, it's also a fact that both outcomes are incredibly cheap at a single Red Mana.
So yes- your opponent gets the choice, but you're the one who gets the bargain.
Endless debates will be had over this card, I'm sure.
I for one think it's great. It does lose it's power once you get a bit into the game, so that does take away from it.
But early-game, this is amazing value, so for that reason alone, I think you'e gonna want to run at least a couple of these little things.
4/5
Cyberium
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
The choice here is brutal, personally I'd rather have the devil resolved and kill it somehow. I don't want to take 4 damage so early that burn spell could grind me down that much earlier, and creature-kill has always been a staple for decks these days. It is within bolt range and both black and white cards can kill it. Green may have to fight it with its own big creatures.
Kryptnyt
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(6 votes)
@Infernox You don't get a chance to cast spells in between the time your opponent makes a decision and the creature is sacrificed. So you'd have to play Undying Evil first, and at that point, you're 2-for-1 and yadda yadda yadda.
Anyway, this guy is an interesting guy, seems fair though.
myztikrice
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(5 votes)
0CMC Opponent mulligans and taps a land. You lose 4 life.
schwitzerm
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Mmmm... Soul Foundry should go nicely with this card. 4/3 every turn for R? Even without this card's effect, that would be great. It's effect just makes it even better.
majinara
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(6 votes)
Well, it's basically a sorcery spell that deals 4 damage to an opponent, with the drawback of giving your opponent the option of this guy becoming a creature instead, if the opponent can deal with it easily. On theo ther hand, you can slap it on a soul foundry. And recursion is easier for creatures than for instants and sorceries. Unearth comes to mind.
Harmonrova
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Soon to be 'Wallet' Devil?
Gcrudaplaneswalker
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
It's not any fun until someone loses an eye... Damn, that's Devil's Play!!
Purple_Shrimp
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
this is a bit too much like browbeat for me to be completely comfortable with it, but it's still pretty dandy
swords_to_exile
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I feel this card is very good, but not broken. It is an interesting card that takes some skill to know how to deal with when you see it hit the table across from you.
When you play it, worst case scenario, it's 4/3 for R (closest to that value is Talara's Battalion), or 4 damage for 4, better that Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning
Powercat
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I opened one at prerelease and played it in a RW deck. I had an opponent who was foolish enough to let it resolve without having any creatures out to block it. That game quickly went my way.
I know it is technically a drawback, but I like cards that force an opponent to choose between two negative outcomes. There are also some cards out there that play well with this. Sun Titan can bring it back over and over, but if you have Sun Titan out and your opponent can't handle a vanilla 4/3, you're probably winning anyway. The one that really interests me is putting this in the same deck as Driver of the Dead.
friendtoall17
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(3 votes)
In Legacy, you could use Stifle. 2 mana, 2 cards, for a 4/3. Not bad, not bad....although a lot of folks would argue Tarmogoyf would be the better 2 mana beatstick here, and not require 2 cards. But still! Neat li'l concept at least.
lightningrod14
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
Goin' STRAIGHT into my Riku of Two Reflections EDH deck. or...maybe just my kiki-jiki legacy deck... :3
Laguz
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(8 votes)
Vastly overrated by average players and vastly underrated by 'pros'. This card is actually quite fair. Yes, it's four damage for one, and yes, it's a 4/3 for one, and either of these are amazing in a vacuum...but not when your opponent gets to choose which is which. RDW rarely wants to burn to the dome right off the bat and i can guarantee you this will always be 4 damage when you drop it first turn or your opponent is...well, you know.
Still, the power is huge and undeniable, regardless of what those questionable article writers on some sites seem to think.
Travager
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Unearth.
HedronMyr
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(4 votes)
Before I get started, I want to say that the argument of this card being equivalent to mulling to 6 in exchange for 4 life is incredibly stupid. The same could be said for any other direct damage spell, and for red deck wins and burn spells in general, move of the time their opening move would involve chewing off someone's life with a direct damage spell or similar, vexing devil or not.
Anyway, I was discussing this card with someone the other day, and we both seemed to agree that this guy will probably be format dependent. Among his drawbacks are the ability for the opponent to force you to sac him, lack of evasion, and lack of haste. All of those can be a problem for burn decks that really need to pile on the damage as soon as possible. A format that has a lot of direct damage spells and allows a deck to be pure burn will do a lot better with this deck because most people that can't deal with a 4/3 will take the damage instead. That alone make's a burn deck's job easier since the job is already 20% done with one drop. However, in a Standard format without a mix of lightning bolt, forked bolt, burst lightning, or other direct damage spells, the card suffers to a degree because it's hard to really "blitz" an opponent down to zero life quickly. Without a reliable amount of damage spells, having cheap and fast creatures on the board become important due to their longevity. This is where Vexing Devil's drawback to let your opponent force the sac becomes a problem. As a general rule, and good opponent will either take the 4 damage, or they have some kind of answer to it in their hand and let it resolve. If M13 sees a comeback of burn spells better than Shock or Arc Trail (though the latter is pretty good at board control), Vexing Devil might be useful. Otherwise, it will be overrated in Standard, but quite useful in eternal formats.
Silence9
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
One Red - Make your opponent shit their pants. 5/5
KokoshoForPresident
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Somebody played this against me and I unsummoned it. Then I slapped myself in the forehead and groaned. I pulled one at the end of the prerelease and was so excited I built a burn deck straightaway.
MTGFreak
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(4 votes)
I traded a foil and a non foil of these for a revised plateau at the prerelease, I think I made out good, this is going to drop in price after it stops winning or cycles out of Type 2.
MANABURNWASGOOD
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I have mixed feelings on this card.
I play EDH for the most part now, and wouldn't play this card. In a more "normal" 60 card format, it is a very good card for a sligh deck.
Pinto331
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
In modern or legacy, as GrimjawxRULES pointed out, this card is a beast. In the current standard meta, not so much.
Mostly it's a matter of taking a look at what decks he'd work in. R/G ramp is more interested in manadorks turn 1. RDW doesn't need damage right out of the gate since that will only help enable your opponents Timely Reinforcements. If anything he might have a spot in frites re-animator with Sun Titan, but even there he doesn't really fill any role the deck is missing or could improve upon.
Yeah it's a cool card, potentially great in the right deck, but so far he's not shaking up standard. Maybe when Return to Ravnica comes in he will find a place.
NoobOfLore
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Getting most of a Lava Axe on turn 1 for is pretty great. Getting a 4/3 for is always great.
1) You have to be a deck that would want a 4 damage lava spike (most decks, even aggressive decks, don't). 2) You have to have a deck that plays enough creatures that the 4/3 body is an actual threat. In burn decks that might only be running goblin guide, your opponent usually will have very few targets for their removal spells so they will just let the creature resolve and then kill it.
There are not a ton of decks that this actually fits into, but when it does, it is very good. For example, I played a cool 5-color tribal flames burn deck in modern that ran goblin guide, wild nacatl (replaced by delver after bannings), snapcaster, and dark confidant and then a ton of burn. This card fits PERFECTLY into that deck. However, my legacy burn deck, plays just goblin guide as a creature (and depending on the metagame, sometimes lavamancer, marauders or hellspark) and this would NOT be very good in that deck because they would just resolve it and then use their swords to plowshares on it.
Ferlord
★★★★☆ (4.3/5.0)(7 votes)
Now... As an minorly-skilled player, I was pretty excited about Bump in the Night, for it was Black's Lightning Bolt, I thought.
But, as a minorly-skilled player, I constantly overlook minor... details... like "Instant versus Sorcery" spells... or "Player targeting versus Creature targeting" abilities...
The exact same thing happened with this card... I was pretty excited about this, and thought, "Man, Red just got a massive make-over".
Then, I began thinking about my previous lessons. Is it worth 5/5 rating? Maybe... maybe not.
Lightning will always be THE Red card, no matter what.
Fast Speed + Cheap Cost + Pretty Good Damage + Choose-able Targets + Definite ability = Perfect Card (Lightning Bolt, in this case).
This card only has the Cheap Cost and the Pretty Good Damage. Sure, it can be a 4/3 on turn one, but no one will allow it.
As an ending note, I'd like to add that Vexing Devils can't be Reverberate'd or Firebrand'd or Vengeance'd.
Negated
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
Bad card. 4 damage burn to the face or a 4/3 for 1 is perfectly fine, even great. If your opponent gets to choose... You better hope that they don't know the first thing about magic. I.E, you lose the game at 0 life. If it comes down t1, it's 4 damage and gone. T5, if they can't block it or take the damage, you were already winning.
BagsMcpiper
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(4 votes)
It gives your opponent a choice, sure. A choice between 4 damage and 4 damage. Not much of a choice.
Wisdomseyes
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
You know how I know everyone has the same opinion because they read this through before hand and just agree with everyone else, not thinking about it themselves. Because EVERYONE is comparing it to a burn spell, and not a creature that comes into play and dies.
Geeee
What cards in STANDARD love creatures dying in order to trigger better effects. Morbid maybe?
is tragic slip and brimstone volley not used anymore? In RDW especially, I have seen brimstone volley more than once. and 4 mana for 9 damage is not a bad deal, expecially if your opponent is at 9 due to previous burns and such they have taken, see vexing devil come out, think they are safe, and you play it out for game. Or they leave it be with the risk and now you have a 4/2 and 3 mana open to do something.
Morbid is a keyword that is easily triggered. Even easier now that vexing devil is here.
Vexing devil is not a one drop. Playing it like it is isn't the best idea, because it always dies. And at sorcery speed for a one drop, Pillar of flame is better.
Well this card is pretty awesome and I was thinking if your opponent opted into taking the four damage instead of letting you keep your creature you could play a card like Soul Parry or if that damage is considered combat damage play Fog which would only increase the mana cost by one.Then the damage couldn't be taken by the opponent therefore the ability wouldn't be activated and your creature can't die. Well at least it can't die by it's own ability. Still though this card is a 4/3 for one and either way your gonna get 4 damage out in the first or second turn if you draw this bad boy.
rawsugar
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I wonder how many 1 cmc burn cards they can print before burn becomes tier 1 in legacy^^ Its true it can be bit of a dud t4-5+ but if game goes on that long and the devil doesnt tilt things slightly in your favor youve had a terrible hand/draw or deck
great card and fairly balanced. id say its at 95% of the power of lightning bolt, en par with chain lightning.
Enemy_Tricolor
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
This card merely reinforces my belief in how awesome Typhoid Rats are.
Rachmaninoff
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Come on, guys. This is a fantastic turn one with Noxious Revival. It's the keystone of my red/green ramp deck.
GrimjawxRULES
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Zoo decks lost Wild Nacatl because it was too powerful, and then they print this guy? Take a minute to think of this yourself: You're playing a deck with Ranger of Eos, this and Tarmogoyf. Imagine finding two of these with the Ranger and letting your opponent decide whether to take 8 to the face for RR, possibly pumping your 'Goyf, or let you have two 4/3's for two mana (which is better than Wild Nacatl was). Even if you cast this on your first turn, you're still ending up with either a) a 4/3 for one mana, or b) 4 damage to your opponent's face and an early creature in the graveyard to pump up your Tarmogoyf.
dlgn
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Woo. Finally, a way to significantly burn your opponent's face on turn one. Or, get out a 4/3 with no drawbacks on turn one :D
zeeehmtee
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
No matter what your opponent chooses, you get ridiculous value for just one red mana. At least they get to choose and not the caster, otherwise id be even more angered.
Sothasil
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
This creature can't be beat in terms of efficiency.
Scenario 1: Opponent believes they can't respond to a 4/3 quickly enough, takes 4 damage.
Scenario 2: Opponent believes they can respond to it and let it stick. You now have a 4/3 beatstick for R.
Either way you come out winning. And of course your opponent will try to do what they think is best for them... that doesn't mean it actually is best.
Granted, the card doesn't have haste. But compared to a goblin guide, another premier red 1 drop creature, you will catch up in damage with the first swing and surpass it greatly if you get another swing or two in with the devil. And no putting lands in your opponent's hand either!
Besides, red has plenty of haste options available ala reckless charge that only cost 1 mana and also buff damage.
Overall amazing card.
The-Earth-Dragon
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
With anyform of card draw in your deck, this guy is always useful.
Totema
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Player: So, anyone want to take the 4 damage? :) Opponent: Nah, I'll just bolt it instead. Player: Ok... :|
That said, when this happens, you just made an opponent use removal on a one drop. And if that's the worst it can be, that's not bad at all. Solid 4/5 from me.
FIAmagic
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I guess no one where ever remembered Longhorn Firebeast? Compared to that one, and you will see why this one is worth that single Red mana you invested.
afterman24
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Think about putting this with Sun Titan and Angel Of Jubilation, Play it first up then play AOJ then if one is in the graveyard bring it back with sun titan. a 4/3 for 1 red..... Awsome i say
Ligerman30
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Great card, but, a lightning rod. I wouldn't recommend it against a burn deck with red in it. They will have lightning bolt, and it won't achieve anything. But, then again, what are the chances even if they have 4. The chances of drawing one are 1:15 against. Multiply that by 7 for each card drawn at the beginning and it's less then a coin toss.
4/5
bowlofgumbo
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This is one of those extremely rare examples of a card that I have absolutely no desire to play against, nor any desire to actually play. There's pages of legit arguments on why this guy is basically effective, while not too good, but there's just something about him that gets me. Taking 4 to the dome before my first draw isn't exactly my favorite way to start a game of Magic, and yet still modal cards based on my opponent's choice really aren't my cup of tea in general either.
iamthenop
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I have some questions about the wording on this. It's very procedural and it requires the opponent to take damage as a cost to force you to sacrifice it. Would there be any space on the stack to sacrifice it to something else after the opponent takes the damage but before you sacrifice it?
It might be tempting to play it on the first turn but most people will just always take the damage. If you had fling in your hand on turn 3 or 4, that's 8 damage right there for 1RR.. For a lot of people playing the white-red this set with the weenies getting pumped up, it would fit great in any deck that can still work off of 3 mana the entire game.
Happyface1515
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Could Outwit counter it? Technically it's targeting you right? I hope it is though just so I could quote the flavor.
Endomarru
★★★★☆ (4.6/5.0)(14 votes)
There are four of them in the art. Wizards is using subliminal messaging to make you buy a playset.
BorosGeneral
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
R for 4 damage on turn one, or for a 4/3 on turn one. For a turn one card like this what could arguably be the down side?
TheJord01
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
No one has mentioned the interaction with Brimstone Volley... shame on you guys
Dream_Twist
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is 5/5 stars because of the potent synergies it has with the Red deck and because it is never EVER a dead card or a lame draw. It might just be the best one drop in standard.
vantha
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(14 votes)
I think I will do everyone a favor and post this now. http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/05/vexing-devil-and-fling-you-cant-get-8-damage-out-of-it/
Most of my friends are trying to break Vexing Devil by interrupting the enters the battlefield ability of Paying 4 life or letting it resolve. They can't. The ruling by a judge clearly states that the caster of Vexing Devil has to play instants (Cloudshift, Undying Evil, or Fling) before passing priority.
Once they passed priority by allowing the opponent to select one of 2 options, they can't interrupt the consequence of the ability. Meaning if the opponent chooses to pay 4 life, Vexing Devil is sacrificed. The controller cannot play an instant because they have no priority. And once Vexing Devil is dead, its controller can't playing Undying Evil, Cloudshift, or Fling because its already in the graveyard.
Now, if the controller does pay the 2nd spell before passing priority, the situation changes. Vexing Devil+Cloudshift and putting the Devil's ETB ability causes the original Devil to be shifted then returned to play as a new Devil with a new ETB ability. What have you accomplished? Nothing, because no opponent will pay 4 life to kill a creature that has already been exiled, the 2nd copy will only cause them to pay 4 life and you lost the Cloudshift for no card advantage whatsoever-congrats you are an idiot.
Playing Vexing devil+Undying Evil then passing priority, better outcome. The opponent either pays 8 life to kill your 5/4 devil. Or they can pay 4 life and make him a 5/4 for 2 mana.The devil is quite a bargain for 2 mana.
Playing Vexing Devil+Fling then passing priority. You can deal 4 damage to the opponent and the ETB triggers but the opponent will most likely let the devil resolve because taking 4 additional damage from a creature that is already dead makes no sense. You've used 3 mana to deal 4 damage.
Enelysios
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
(Sidebar, @Happyface1515: Outwit cannot counter this. The comes into play ability targets you, but that is a triggered ability separate from the creature. Stifle can counter that, but I would not suggest it from the opposing player, then it would just come in as a 4/3)
I think this card, along with Phyrexian Obliterator are the two creatures most recently that divide good players from more inexperienced ones. This card isn't broken. It isn't bad either, it is pretty fair. Other comments have asked "What is the downside" or called this "ridiculously overpowered"
The downside is very significant, your opponent decides on whether this is a 4/3 creature or a sorcery speed 4 damage to player. Both of those are good, but since your opponent chooses, you get whatever is easier for them to deal with. A player with a Go for the throat, lightning bolt or even just a Delver of Secrets doesn't care one bit about your 4/3, its just a trade card for card. On the other hand, an opponent playing mono white might be more threatened by that mean creature, they will probably take 4 damage.
What many people forget is that the real power of lightning bolt is instant speed, and the ability to kill a creature or damage a player. That is flexability you don't get from the devil. Vexing devil isn't bad, but it isn't too strong either, it is mostly a card for the casual game anyway. Punisher mechanics (as these things are known Ex: ) don't go over well
DrJack
★☆☆☆☆ (1.8/5.0)(5 votes)
One of the most unfun and imbalanced cards to come about in a great while. Not quite as ridiculously overpowered as Thunderous Wrath (: You win the game), though. It's unsurprising, however, that both cards appear in the same expansion set. As long as Hasbro keeps printing cards like these, Magic: the Gathering won't need any enemies.
Dabok
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I don't even treat this as a creature, because no one will ever allow this to stay on board. Sometimes it's not even that cool since when they DO let it stay, it's because they have some sort of response to it (either they're planning to wipe the board next turn, or they simply have superior board control that this doesn't threaten them). But hey, 1 cmc for all that, it isn't bad at all. As it has been said though, it's easy to underestimate AND/OR overestimate this card.
talcumpowder0046
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Pretty much a slightly better lightning bolt, but still the best thing I ever found in a booster pack!
MindAblaze
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Not the best card ever because if you play competitively you're letting your opponent choose what you're doing with your mana. Post-rotation I think I'm going to play him in a Burning VengeanceHavengul Lich deck though. See if they want to pay four life more than once or twice...
TheShadow344
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
"Playing Vexing devil+Undying Evil then passing priority, better outcome. The opponent either pays 8 life to kill your 5/4 devil. Or they can pay 4 life and make him a 5/4 for 2 mana.The devil is quite a bargain for 2 mana."
If you cast Undying Evil in response to the enters-the-battlefield trigger, your opponent will only ever let you keep the devil and Undying Evil won't do anything. A 4/3 is still pretty good for though.
miilkshake
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(5 votes)
Oh, boy. Even from a religious standpoint, this should just not at all be offensive.
Ximenez
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(5 votes)
Wait, so devils, which are quite clearly depicted as vile creatures in magic are a problem whereas the Lovecraftian monstrosities that are the eldrazi are not? Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftaghn!
And that's not even mentioning the fact that demons have existed in Magic since its conception. How is this any more offensive than any of these issues?
Jedijoe
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(5 votes)
@TheWrathofShane
I think the question is, did you really just go there? If it is so offensive to you, don't play it. Simple as that. The reason they used that type in particular had a lot to do with the issues that were being performed in the storyline for the Innistrad block. There is nothing here that should make it offensive, and you shouldn't exaggerate it as such too...
Jack-o-Crow
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Turn 1 - Mountain - This (doesn't matter if they take the damage)
If you play this early, you're likely doing 4 to the face for one mana. If you play it late, you're likely getting a 4/3 for one mana. Can't complain about that.
wholelottalove
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Card is not any good in a Commander deck, four damage to stop something is negligible but this could go into either a regular burn deck or even a red Storm deck. Having spells that cost only one mana is good and if your opponent chooses to take four damage, then that's less that has to be stormed up. I do realize that LB would be better for damage since they could let the Devil hit the board, but these two cards would be good together.
DoragonShinzui
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This is either four damage to the face and a creature in the graveyard on turn one, or a 4/3 beatstick on turn one.
Why cares if your opponent gets to choose between bad and worse? There is no good option here, so it's irrelevant. Pain and suffering for everyone.
pedrodyl
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Good synergy on turn 4 with a Brimstone Volley. If they take the 4 damage, hit them with another 5. If not, they can still take 3 anyway or you can save it and play something else like a Guttersnipe
Kagatob
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(5 votes)
@TheWrathofShane
Either you are trolling, or you know know so little about the book that you take so seriously to get offended by a piece of cardboard in a game.
If it was that serious to you, you should of quit a long time ago. Djinn/Efreet are synomous with devils in the "good book", and they've been staple magic creatures since the beginning. Not to mention all of the other types of demons/avitars and the like.
I would come to the conclusion because of that that you are indeed trolling but after dealing with your type for so long I never underestimate the power of blind, ignorant belief.
ThePieManOfDeath
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(5 votes)
"Why the devil creature type. Why even go there? Its going to offend Christians like myself, and quite frankly I was tempted to just not play anymore."
Don't give into temptation. That's what the Devil would want you to do.
stuffytoast
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This is my favorite addition to my Unleash/Rakdos deck. I have 4 of these bad boys as well as 4 Searing Spear, I try to wait to cast Vexing Devil so that I can afford both as well as a Cryptborn Horror after my combat phase. With any luck, the Cryptborn Horror will be much more intimidating than the 4/3 Vexing Devil and the opponent will be in pain.
@BongRipper420 dude that is one of the best uses of Proclamation I've seen. I think I'll make this deck now.
Markov.Loremaster
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Just for the sake of clarification, in 2HG, when Vexing Devil is cast, do the opposing players have to choose and declare their choice simultaneously? As in, both team members won't know the other's choice until it is declared? Or are they allowed to communicate which one of them will take which choice?
If the first situation is true (where both team members must declare simultaneously), will the team take 8 damage instead of 4?
Chogori27
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(6 votes)
@TheWrathofRetardation
You want the answer to that question? It's because they figured sheltered mindess sheep such as yourself wouldn't bother taking time from jamming sacraments down your throat to actually play this.
If you get offended that easily, my advice is lock yourself up, because life is something you can't handle.
Ravbuscus
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
@Ferlord
if your i minorly skilled player, shut up please. 1 mana for a 4/3 creature in a red deck is good hands down, leaving mana for more spells...ur dumb
I really do feel compelled to defend Magic's decision to include demons, devils, imps, etc. (especially after their decision to remove "Demon" from the game, which was later reversed when the game gained enough popularity that scared mothers realized it wasn't a cult.)
I feel so compelled because I've been playing Magic (DnD too) for a decade and I'm a devout Catholic. Playing Magic is fun and exciting because it is a challenge that forces you to take a lot of things into account: economy, strategy, randomness, psychology, etc. It's a game that rewards players who think outside the box. Like Dungeons and Dragons, it encourages social interaction between friends, by bringing them together in a real space, rather than a digital space. It teaches good sportsmanship in both winning and losing. And the art is just beautiful.
Now, someone might be able to make an argument that finding fun in controlling armies of demons and devils is in fact a sin. But I doubt very much that such an argument would convince anyone, because there is a big difference between finding enjoyment in controlling cards and controlling real demons or devils. If you are the type of person who might feel drawn in by this world, or might find the thought of playing out these fantasies in real life attractive, then Magic might not be the game for you. The fear over DnD in the 80's was not a fear of the game itself, it was a fear of young people losing touch with reality. If you remember that you're only manipulating small pieces of paper on a table, as 99.9999999% of Magic players do, then there is, in my view, no moral dilemma at all.
I agree with @DarthParallax's encouragement to view books like LotR through a Christian lens (remember, Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian.) Works of fantasy always draw upon real-world mythology. As we're in the Western world (most likely,) it shouldn't be surprising that figures of great virtue and great evil are drawn from the mythologies of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, all of which have tales of demons, devils, djinn, etc. as well as tales of saints and angels. Lorwyn drew upon traditional Celtic and English mythology, Kamigawa drew upon a number of different Asian religions, etc. Remember, what is the fundamental piece of Magic? Mana, the bread God sent to the Jews lost in the desert!
Magic is part of a long tradition of art that draws upon the real world to flesh out a fictional one, to make it more accessible. And ultimately, the world has been fleshed out enough that what was initially borrowed from the real world has become unique to this fictional one. Demons in Magic are no longer synonymous with demons of the Judeo-Christian tradition any more than its elves are synonymous with Tolkien's.
Playing Mono-black is no more immoral than watching The Exorcist or reading The Screwtape Letters. The colors of red and black allow you to approach the various challenges of Magic in new and unique ways. I'd also encourage you to read more on the game developers philosophy behind the Color Pie. Black and Red are capable of good just as much as White is capable of evil.
Magic is a damn fun game. As long as it remains a game in your mind, I encourage you and all other players of whatever background or creed to enjoy it as such.
Thanks for reading my novel, and God bless ;)
Arachnos
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
So it's either "4 damage to a random opponent for {R}" or "4/3 creature for {R}".
And both are crazy good.
wubs23
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is simply amazing. The worst situation is that the opponent lets it resolve and has a stronger creature on the board, in which case it is a cheap blocker. A better situation is them wasting a removal spell on a 1 mana card. The 4 direct damage is just added gravy.
Great in combination with other cheap burn cards like this: Reverberate Thunderous fury Goblin arsonist Brimstone volley pillar of flame guttersnipe frostburn weird searing spear devil's play.
mangara137
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Absolutely broken card. 1 mana for a 4 damage lava spike or a early game face-breaker. Sure, it can die to a single bolt, but who cares. :P
wicked_pick
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
No matter how much you hate or love this guy, he'll always be a part of my Mono Red.. simply because he can cause massive damage to my opponents early game..
Being a Mono RED for years, you should know that all you care about is to hurt your opponents. I don't care if he's gonna die or not, if he's gonna be a small fry later (ehem I don't even think about "later", I just cause havoc as much as I can every turn).. That's why RED has lot's of spells that hurt themselves, because it won't matter at all as long as you're opponents will hurt MORE.
RED is what you can do NOW not LATER.
tehsquirrely
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
If Bugs Bunny played magic this would be his favorite card: "Would you like to take four damage now or wait 'til you get home?"
DarthParallax
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
jmindfingerpainter....that's just evil. Here, have this: Miracle + Liliana Vess works pretty nice :p
@TheWrathofShane-- I'll just summarize my last post because now I want to comment on the card for real. :)
"Green, White, and Blue are the Good Guys, Devils are the Bad Guys, and having Bad Guys on cards is actually a Good Thing, even for Good Guys. Innistrad was the most Religious-friendly block I can think of in the history of MTG, it actually had an Organized Church that turned out NOT to be secretly corrupt the whole time. You know how rare that is to find in Fantasy? Read up on Lord of the Rings and get back to us on Vexing Devil please. :) "
(Also, I would modify the support LordPoopsicle gave me by stating that from a Christian standpoint, White has equal capacity for Good and Evil, Orzhova being Magic's Poster-child for what happens when an organization like the Church of Avacyn becomes tainted with corruption (sadly inevitable, I really, REALLY like what Sorin gave Innistrad, and wish that he could have gathered a bunch of saints from different planes to help safeguard Innistrad, but likely Innistrad will one day succumb to Orzhovian-like Corruption :/ ) but Red and Black interestingly do not have the same moral equivalency, as what they are best at for the Accomplishment of Good is a Temporary fire or motivation, that after a victory has to be set aside in the Peace that follows. Their best virtues are Individualism and Freedom and Revolution, which ARE quite Good and powerful tools for opposing the wrongful Evil Oppression that HUMAN(or mortal non-human) governments and structures can hold people in domination with, BUT at the same time EVENTUAL SUBMISSION to a Moral Code one Truly Believes is Good is necessary for virtuous life, and Black's and Red's ''whole schtik'' is basically to be as un-submissive as possible. Righteous Rebellion against Injustice IS a Moral Good, but would anyone really say that Tony Stark or Han Solo are AS MORALLY GOOD as Yoda or Thor? No, they are just more Bad-Ass. ;) Except nobody is as Bad-Ass in the most recently-made Fantasy as the cinematic Thor. He's like Aragorn, the unrealistically Perfect 4-colored Non-Black Alignment o.o
I find that VOLUMES of Philosophy can be written about the Color Wheel, about the Guild Alignments, and about 3-color Identities. I feel that 3-color Identities most accurately represent Real People, and Four-Color Identities are really really cool "What Ifs'' that can fuel the imagination to create a Sci-Fi or Fantasy Story about "What if this Color was Missing from a World?" but that in Truth the 4-color alignments are very unrealistic to expect to find in any Possible Real world, since if you have at least 4, the 5th will be discovered by induction by the Scientists, Philosophers, and Artists of that world. (with the caveat that a Religious person might or should want to discover that a Supreme Four-Colored Non-Black Being or Force is actually honestly True, not Fantasy or Fiction, and that the reason the Fifth Color, Black, exists in the World is that God's/the Force's 4-colored Nature gives it the Compassion and Knowledge to realize that Black is Necessary to be an enemy for White, and for a few other things, but Black is the least independently Good on its own. Its Goodness is like the Goodness of machine part performing a needed function successfully.)
I am stuck between Actually Being Riku-Aligned, striving to perfect how to be 5-colored with proper alottments to White and Black, and having great Compassion for Grixis and Kaalia Alignments, because they make the Stories just that Awesome. More White than Black; but it is quite difficult, which fuels my Red whether I want to or not from Frustration, and I've become VERY Green-Blue aligned in my attempts to approach that White in between them. I think any Psych Major, Philosopher, or Religiously-minded person really needs to study the Color Wheel, it's frigging Fascinating. o.O)
Vantha- So, Undying Evil and Cloudshift are the cards people want to 'combo' this guy with? I did read the top comment, and I was helped by -SOME- of it, but other parts seemed less clear.
"The ruling by a judge clearly states that the caster of Vexing Devil has to play instants before passing priority." This much is absolutely CLEAR, and is a very straightforward sentence that might help me parse out the rest on my own when I log off and read the cards next to each other carefully for myself.
You say things like 'it's already dead' or 'it's already exiled', but I still don't get it. :P
Torpor Orb and Undying Evil are the ''good cards'' to try B.S. with, is the Final Statement it appears, but I wish I had better certainty as to WHY. :)
Smoke_Stack
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I just got 3 of these for my W/R burn deck. The way I see it, my opponent shouldn't be taking the four because it just makes it easier for me to burn em out. paying 1 for a 4/3 is excellent.
infernox10
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Apparently, losing 4 life is the equivalent of losing an eye.
Villainous1
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
T2, this and then if someone takes the hit Undying Evil. Congratulations! You are now the worst person ever.
HeraldOfRazia
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
One of my all time favorite one drops in red. This is a main staple in my red/white Aggro deck. Either way it's a win/win for you. 4 damage dealt on the first turn ensures I can kill my opponent in burn spells alone on turn 4 and if they let it ride as a creature it will still pick off any opponent creatures early in the game. I think he's somewhat related to Shivan Wumpus, another one of my favorites.
SubstantiaNigra
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
A great card but not perfect. A card never is when you're giving the opponent the choice. However, I can still see potential for use in a burn deck (where either choice seems good for ) or for putting on a Soul Foundry.
3.5/5
GhostCounselor
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Both an overrated and underrated card. It's overrated by the fact that most decks should have a way of dealing with it after turn one, but it's underrated in that hey, it's a 4/3 for one. But like I said, in most situations you'll be able to deal with a Vexing Devil after turn one.
MagicBrad
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
@TheWrathOfShane - If you're seriously offended by the inclusion of Devil creature types, then don't play them. Chances are WotC recognizes that there are some bible-beaters who will give up the game as a result. They've also recognized that those are such a small percentage of players that they just aren't worth worrying about. If it turns you off of the game altogether, look me up and I'll consider giving you a couple bucks for your cards.
I think what I'm getting at here is "get over it, sport, it just isn't that big a deal".
On to the card - This is a nasty one-drop. I'd pay RR for it, with no problem. Chances are that in the first 2 or 3 turns, your opponent will just eat the damage. Which really just means you're getting a Lightning Bolt plus one damage. Isn't that just a crying shame?
If you're putting together your red aggro deck, this belongs in it. Up there with Rakdos Cackler, ironically another Devil, for solid one-drop creature picks. I'm using this, Rakdos Cackler, and Hellrider as the basis for an aggro Devil tribal deck for an upcoming casual Tribal event. Maybe I'll see if we can play it in a church. ;-)
Cartercr
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is absolutely beautiful. I can't imagine a point where this card is bad. Your opponent has to chose to either take 4 or let this thing resolve. Drop this on turn 1 and you have immediate pressure. If they can counter it or kill it otherwise, you've still made them waste a spell. It's just too threatening for its cost. Instant 4 of in any red deck.
Rootkit9208
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
This little guy just got a huge shot in the arm from Varolz, the Scar-Striped being printed. Burn for four, then use his corpse to pump something up by four... for two red?! Hello, Jund!
Seriously, why are people mucking around with Fling? Don't worry about the timing, just use Pandemonium.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.9/5.0)(11 votes)
@Magic bird. Still no reason to even go there in the first place. Change demon to Dreadlord and devil to Defiler. Bam, you successfully satisfied all parties.
I know 3 Christians who play this game, there are 2 billion Christians on the planet. Not that hard to make something else up besides evil religious figures. @lifegainwiddle You provided no explanation why magic should print devils other then giving Christians the middle finger and basically implying we don't want you here. You are free to offend 2 billion people on this planet, this is a free nation. But do yourself a favor and come up with a real reason besides F Religion I do what I want.
As for the card, well balanced. 4 damage for is great, and 4/3 for is incredible. The drawback being if they can deal with the 4/3, its close to a dead draw.
emlit
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
What, no haste? I'm very disappointed in you, power curve. ;-P
MDG117
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
dudes one drop four damage or one drop 4/3 creature this card wreaks no matter what how is it still just rated 4/5?!
wideyes
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I think this card is OP. Dealing your opponent 4 damage on turn one is OP. Having a 4/3 on turn 2 is OP. I think you should at least have to combo or otherwise be clever for effects like that. As it is, it's a cheap thrill that detracts from the game. I'd feel a lot differently about it if it cost RR or 1R. 2/5
Lifegainwithbite
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
@thewrathofshane: Because devils are displayed on tv, over the internet, in books and have been a theme for centuries, both inside and outside Christianity - devils are the classically evil creatures, not just to Christians but to everyone. I don't have a problem with Christians, just the extremist ones like you that think everything is an insult to them, just like you were complaining on the Army of Allah page and numerous other pages. You're obviously too much of a coward to voice your extremism elsewhere so you complain and threaten to quit on the forums of a card game. And there might be 2 billion Christians but you are the only one that's complaining on these forums so clearly there are smarter and less extremist Christians out there who don't agree with you. Why should Wizards change demon to dreadlord and devil to defiler just to satisfy one extremist? Stop being a child. If something offends you, deal with it. If you want to quit, quit but stop whinging and moaning about it wherever you can. To clarify (because obviously it's necessary), I am calling you a child, not all Christians. Do you need me to use shorter words?
JB_Xyooj
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Fine... Take away my excitement for Fling, Undying Evil, and Cloudshift... But you haven't taken away my goal to utilize this with Homicidal Seclusion That right homie... Devil comes into play before the decision to sac him or let him resolve... You either allow me to resolve a 7/4 Devil and you waste some dumbdonkey spell on it or take the 4 and allow me to get my 4 life back. Your choices :D playing it like that is just silly.
MICKEY.KNOX
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(5 votes)
Boy, you all beat around the bush with Shane, huh? Here, let me help... Shane. We are sick of your childish whining and religious extremism about our beloved Devils and Demons. Go away and leave us to our joyous angel slaughter and sacrificial human flaying. We'll be fine without you. Thanx for comin out...
HotHit
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I don't think there's anything better to do turn one than drop a 4/3. Most 2 mana creatures can't even compete with that and often 3 mana creatures have problems dealing with it. The downside? Your opponent can choose to take 1/5 of their life total now instead.
You can start by hitting the ground running... Or your opponent. Seems pretty damn strong to me.
TexasDice
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(4 votes)
@The WrathOfShane My dear mister,
My Name is Texas, Texas Dice. I am part of the U.C.D service, which is short for User Control Department. My particulary team is responsible for butthurt all over the internet. We've heard about your problems and concerns, so we decided to contact you. Please write your thoughts into the linked sheet and send it to Wh0car3s@ucd-mail.com
I might grab this for my Tajic deck. It runs both of the above cards for a silly little combo (which basically means they have to deal with the 4/3), and my deck is aggressive, so it wouldn't mind a turn 1 4 damage to the face.
DeaTh-ShiNoBi
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This guy has very obvious synergy with Varolz, the Scar-Striped. The primary complaint about this card before the printing of Varolz, and why people didn't use him in aggro decks most of the time, is that allowing the opponent to deny your 1-drop by paying 4 life was a big win for him, and if he's in a position where he can't take the 4 damage, he can let it hit the board. But now, with Varolz, you get a lot of value, more than just 4 dmg burn, when your opponent denies your Vexing Devil. It really boosts the viability of the card a ton.
doombladez
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
The only Christians this card, or any piece of cardboard, offends are people who really need to reexamine their beliefs. I'm Christian and have many Christian friends who play, including one pastor who absolutely loves Innistrad, and we all understand that cardboard can't hurt us and the devil does not work for a game company. It's alright everyone, just enjoy the game :)
atemu1234
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
@wrathofshane Because Demons and Devils fit flavorfully flavorful in Magic. If you don't like it go play Pokemon. Dreadlords and Defilers just sound stupid.
@lifegainwithnibble I take his most recent edit to mean yes, he wants it in smaller words.
Neutron_Mox
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Any red deck that does not have 4 of these is simply less powerful than a red deck that does. The only way this card could have been broken worse is if it counted as a Goblin and not a Devil. It should have been black and it should have been mythic. Those details are what reduce my rating to 5/5. If it were a goblin, or black creature, I couldn't have gone under 7/5. This guy is going to see a lot of time in Legacy and Vintage.
A stronger lightning bolt for the same mana cost, or a Wooly Thoctar with -1/-1 for a third of the mana. If your opponent has a counterspell, you can bet it's being played.
RAV0004
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(5 votes)
There are more butthurt Atheists in here than butthurt Christians. And that's hilarious.
But no seriously, stop being assholes to each other.
SeriouslyFacetious
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Nobody's butt-hurt anymore, Alice! We're all butt-healed!!
Jitteryowl
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
To those wondering why this card isn't banned, or why it isn't in every deck ever, etc.
Choice cards are always weaker because your opponent can chose whatever is most convenient for them. Although it may seem that this card gives you a turn 1 4/3, in reality your opponent will usually just take 4 damage, and the flipside in the lategame. Now, I'm not saying that this is a weak card, just that it is balanced and fair.
Wow, majinara made a positive comment about a fun, "punisher" card! You feelin' OK, dude? ;-) You didn't get hacked, did you? ;-)
j_mindfingerpainter
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
... Or now that we'll have Born of the Gods, is it a 0/-1 Tribute 4 that says, "when Vexing Devil dies, if its tribute cost wasn't paid, it deals 4 damage to the opponent?"
EGarrett01
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Dexing Vevil.
Smokingpapyrus
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So can I abuse this with blink effects (assuming they choose to take the damage)?
Ugin
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Opponent - Meh,it's ok,I'd rather lose 4 lif... Me - And thus,the earth split,and from the infernal flames a sinister figure emerged,they call him Rakdos, Lord of Riots.
He's so pushed he looks very over-powered; to the point that people gawk at his power-level; but he's honestly well balanced and (to many people) quite mediocre. The reason for the success of these cards is that the drawback is invisible or looks easy to work around; but then it starts costing you games because.. well.. it was
Anyway.. I think the best use for this guy is with simple recursion mechanics: Tortured Existence, Unearth, and similar. He's made to push your tempo over-the-edge; but only if you can keep 1-mana spells flying at an incredible rate.
Reishyn
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
When you open a hand with four of these guys... nothing feels more fittingly devilish.
TylerGagne
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I've noticed when I play this card (in my boros r/w burn deck) more experienced players just take the 4 damage and save the removal for bigger threats --- while novice players will let it stay and they will trade creatures or try to remove it later and by that point they have very little time left before they're killed by my deck.
Just what I've noticed through my personal experiences
Comments (123)
Another complaint that people might have is, "they can just let you have the creature after they've got a titan on the board." If your opponent's stabilized a big enough creature board, mono-red has probably already lost the game. You have to make 20 damage happen faster than that, if you're playing a deck with this guy in it.
That being said, compare with Reckless Abandon and Furnace Scamp and scratch your head a lot.
While *yes*, the fact that your opponent gets to choose
whether this is a 4/3 creature or a 4 point Lava Axe *does* weaken it,
it's also a fact that both outcomes are incredibly cheap at a single Red Mana.
So yes- your opponent gets the choice, but you're the one who gets the bargain.
I have a feeling this guy, Reforge the Soul, and Thunderous Wrath are going to revive Red in a major way.
I for one think it's great. It does lose it's power once you get a bit into the game, so that does take away from it.
But early-game, this is amazing value, so for that reason alone, I think you'e gonna want to run at least a couple of these little things.
4/5
You don't get a chance to cast spells in between the time your opponent makes a decision and the creature is sacrificed. So you'd have to play Undying Evil first, and at that point, you're 2-for-1 and yadda yadda yadda.
Anyway, this guy is an interesting guy, seems fair though.
Opponent mulligans and taps a land. You lose 4 life.
When you play it, worst case scenario, it's 4/3 for R (closest to that value is Talara's Battalion), or 4 damage for 4, better that Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning
I know it is technically a drawback, but I like cards that force an opponent to choose between two negative outcomes. There are also some cards out there that play well with this. Sun Titan can bring it back over and over, but if you have Sun Titan out and your opponent can't handle a vanilla 4/3, you're probably winning anyway. The one that really interests me is putting this in the same deck as Driver of the Dead.
Still, the power is huge and undeniable, regardless of what those questionable article writers on some sites seem to think.
Anyway, I was discussing this card with someone the other day, and we both seemed to agree that this guy will probably be format dependent. Among his drawbacks are the ability for the opponent to force you to sac him, lack of evasion, and lack of haste. All of those can be a problem for burn decks that really need to pile on the damage as soon as possible. A format that has a lot of direct damage spells and allows a deck to be pure burn will do a lot better with this deck because most people that can't deal with a 4/3 will take the damage instead. That alone make's a burn deck's job easier since the job is already 20% done with one drop. However, in a Standard format without a mix of lightning bolt, forked bolt, burst lightning, or other direct damage spells, the card suffers to a degree because it's hard to really "blitz" an opponent down to zero life quickly. Without a reliable amount of damage spells, having cheap and fast creatures on the board become important due to their longevity. This is where Vexing Devil's drawback to let your opponent force the sac becomes a problem. As a general rule, and good opponent will either take the 4 damage, or they have some kind of answer to it in their hand and let it resolve. If M13 sees a comeback of burn spells better than Shock or Arc Trail (though the latter is pretty good at board control), Vexing Devil might be useful. Otherwise, it will be overrated in Standard, but quite useful in eternal formats.
I pulled one at the end of the prerelease and was so excited I built a burn deck straightaway.
I play EDH for the most part now, and wouldn't play this card. In a more "normal" 60 card format, it is a very good card for a sligh deck.
Mostly it's a matter of taking a look at what decks he'd work in. R/G ramp is more interested in manadorks turn 1. RDW doesn't need damage right out of the gate since that will only help enable your opponents Timely Reinforcements. If anything he might have a spot in frites re-animator with Sun Titan, but even there he doesn't really fill any role the deck is missing or could improve upon.
Yeah it's a cool card, potentially great in the right deck, but so far he's not shaking up standard. Maybe when Return to Ravnica comes in he will find a place.
1) You have to be a deck that would want a 4 damage lava spike (most decks, even aggressive decks, don't).
2) You have to have a deck that plays enough creatures that the 4/3 body is an actual threat. In burn decks that might only be running goblin guide, your opponent usually will have very few targets for their removal spells so they will just let the creature resolve and then kill it.
There are not a ton of decks that this actually fits into, but when it does, it is very good.
For example, I played a cool 5-color tribal flames burn deck in modern that ran goblin guide, wild nacatl (replaced by delver after bannings), snapcaster, and dark confidant and then a ton of burn. This card fits PERFECTLY into that deck. However, my legacy burn deck, plays just goblin guide as a creature (and depending on the metagame, sometimes lavamancer, marauders or hellspark) and this would NOT be very good in that deck because they would just resolve it and then use their swords to plowshares on it.
But, as a minorly-skilled player, I constantly overlook minor... details... like "Instant versus Sorcery" spells... or "Player targeting versus Creature targeting" abilities...
The exact same thing happened with this card... I was pretty excited about this, and thought, "Man, Red just got a massive make-over".
Then, I began thinking about my previous lessons. Is it worth 5/5 rating? Maybe... maybe not.
Is it better than Lightning Bolt?
No.
Lightning will always be THE Red card, no matter what.
Fast Speed + Cheap Cost + Pretty Good Damage + Choose-able Targets + Definite ability = Perfect Card (Lightning Bolt, in this case).
This card only has the Cheap Cost and the Pretty Good Damage. Sure, it can be a 4/3 on turn one, but no one will allow it.
As an ending note, I'd like to add that Vexing Devils can't be Reverberate'd or Firebrand'd or Vengeance'd.
Geeee
What cards in STANDARD love creatures dying in order to trigger better effects. Morbid maybe?
is tragic slip and brimstone volley not used anymore? In RDW especially, I have seen brimstone volley more than once. and 4 mana for 9 damage is not a bad deal, expecially if your opponent is at 9 due to previous burns and such they have taken, see vexing devil come out, think they are safe, and you play it out for game. Or they leave it be with the risk and now you have a 4/2 and 3 mana open to do something.
Morbid is a keyword that is easily triggered. Even easier now that vexing devil is here.
Vexing devil is not a one drop. Playing it like it is isn't the best idea, because it always dies. And at sorcery speed for a one drop, Pillar of flame is better.
Its true it can be bit of a dud t4-5+ but if game goes on that long and the devil doesnt tilt things slightly in your favor youve had a terrible hand/draw or deck
great card and fairly balanced. id say its at 95% of the power of lightning bolt, en par with chain lightning.
Scenario 1: Opponent believes they can't respond to a 4/3 quickly enough, takes 4 damage.
Scenario 2: Opponent believes they can respond to it and let it stick. You now have a 4/3 beatstick for R.
Either way you come out winning. And of course your opponent will try to do what they think is best for them... that doesn't mean it actually is best.
Granted, the card doesn't have haste. But compared to a goblin guide, another premier red 1 drop creature, you will catch up in damage with the first swing and surpass it greatly if you get another swing or two in with the devil. And no putting lands in your opponent's hand either!
Besides, red has plenty of haste options available ala reckless charge that only cost 1 mana and also buff damage.
Overall amazing card.
Opponent: Nah, I'll just bolt it instead.
Player: Ok... :|
That said, when this happens, you just made an opponent use removal on a one drop. And if that's the worst it can be, that's not bad at all. Solid 4/5 from me.
4/5
It might be tempting to play it on the first turn but most people will just always take the damage. If you had fling in your hand on turn 3 or 4, that's 8 damage right there for 1RR.. For a lot of people playing the white-red this set with the weenies getting pumped up, it would fit great in any deck that can still work off of 3 mana the entire game.
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/05/vexing-devil-and-fling-you-cant-get-8-damage-out-of-it/
Most of my friends are trying to break Vexing Devil by interrupting the enters the battlefield ability of Paying 4 life or letting it resolve. They can't. The ruling by a judge clearly states that the caster of Vexing Devil has to play instants (Cloudshift, Undying Evil, or Fling) before passing priority.
Once they passed priority by allowing the opponent to select one of 2 options, they can't interrupt the consequence of the ability. Meaning if the opponent chooses to pay 4 life, Vexing Devil is sacrificed. The controller cannot play an instant because they have no priority. And once Vexing Devil is dead, its controller can't playing Undying Evil, Cloudshift, or Fling because its already in the graveyard.
Now, if the controller does pay the 2nd spell before passing priority, the situation changes. Vexing Devil+Cloudshift and putting the Devil's ETB ability causes the original Devil to be shifted then returned to play as a new Devil with a new ETB ability. What have you accomplished? Nothing, because no opponent will pay 4 life to kill a creature that has already been exiled, the 2nd copy will only cause them to pay 4 life and you lost the Cloudshift for no card advantage whatsoever-congrats you are an idiot.
Playing Vexing devil+Undying Evil then passing priority, better outcome. The opponent either pays 8 life to kill your 5/4 devil. Or they can pay 4 life and make him a 5/4 for 2 mana.The devil is quite a bargain for 2 mana.
Playing Vexing Devil+Fling then passing priority. You can deal 4 damage to the opponent and the ETB triggers but the opponent will most likely let the devil resolve because taking 4 additional damage from a creature that is already dead makes no sense. You've used 3 mana to deal 4 damage.
I think this card, along with Phyrexian Obliterator are the two creatures most recently that divide good players from more inexperienced ones. This card isn't broken. It isn't bad either, it is pretty fair. Other comments have asked "What is the downside" or called this "ridiculously overpowered"
The downside is very significant, your opponent decides on whether this is a 4/3 creature or a sorcery speed 4 damage to player. Both of those are good, but since your opponent chooses, you get whatever is easier for them to deal with. A player with a Go for the throat, lightning bolt or even just a Delver of Secrets doesn't care one bit about your 4/3, its just a trade card for card. On the other hand, an opponent playing mono white might be more threatened by that mean creature, they will probably take 4 damage.
What many people forget is that the real power of lightning bolt is instant speed, and the ability to kill a creature or damage a player. That is flexability you don't get from the devil. Vexing devil isn't bad, but it isn't too strong either, it is mostly a card for the casual game anyway. Punisher mechanics (as these things are known Ex: ) don't go over well
Sometimes it's not even that cool since when they DO let it stay, it's because they have some sort of response to it (either they're planning to wipe the board next turn, or they simply have superior board control that this doesn't threaten them).
But hey, 1 cmc for all that, it isn't bad at all.
As it has been said though, it's easy to underestimate AND/OR overestimate this card.
If you cast Undying Evil in response to the enters-the-battlefield trigger, your opponent will only ever let you keep the devil and Undying Evil won't do anything. A 4/3 is still pretty good for
And that's not even mentioning the fact that demons have existed in Magic since its conception. How is this any more offensive than any of these issues?
I think the question is, did you really just go there? If it is so offensive to you, don't play it. Simple as that. The reason they used that type in particular had a lot to do with the issues that were being performed in the storyline for the Innistrad block. There is nothing here that should make it offensive, and you shouldn't exaggerate it as such too...
- Mountain
- This (doesn't matter if they take the damage)
Turn 2
- Mountain
- Spark Elemental
- Blazing Shoal discarding Thunderous Wrath
- Any three damage red spell (Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lava Spike, Brute Force, Assault strobe)
- Swing with the elemental and the devil if it's still there
- Sacrifice two mountains Fireblast
20 on turn 2 in mono red.
Why cares if your opponent gets to choose between bad and worse? There is no good option here, so it's irrelevant. Pain and suffering for everyone.
If they take the 4 damage, hit them with another 5. If not, they can still take 3 anyway or you can save it and play something else like a Guttersnipe
Either you are trolling, or you know know so little about the book that you take so seriously to get offended by a piece of cardboard in a game.
If it was that serious to you, you should of quit a long time ago. Djinn/Efreet are synomous with devils in the "good book", and they've been staple magic creatures since the beginning. Not to mention all of the other types of demons/avitars and the like.
I would come to the conclusion because of that that you are indeed trolling but after dealing with your type for so long I never underestimate the power of blind, ignorant belief.
Don't give into temptation. That's what the Devil would want you to do.
If the first situation is true (where both team members must declare simultaneously), will the team take 8 damage instead of 4?
You want the answer to that question? It's because they figured sheltered mindess sheep such as yourself wouldn't bother taking time from jamming sacraments down your throat to actually play this.
If you get offended that easily, my advice is lock yourself up, because life is something you can't handle.
if your i minorly skilled player, shut up please. 1 mana for a 4/3 creature in a red deck is good hands down, leaving mana for more spells...ur dumb
Add in cards like lightning bolt and reverberate it becomes choose your own death
I really do feel compelled to defend Magic's decision to include demons, devils, imps, etc. (especially after their decision to remove "Demon" from the game, which was later reversed when the game gained enough popularity that scared mothers realized it wasn't a cult.)
I feel so compelled because I've been playing Magic (DnD too) for a decade and I'm a devout Catholic. Playing Magic is fun and exciting because it is a challenge that forces you to take a lot of things into account: economy, strategy, randomness, psychology, etc. It's a game that rewards players who think outside the box. Like Dungeons and Dragons, it encourages social interaction between friends, by bringing them together in a real space, rather than a digital space. It teaches good sportsmanship in both winning and losing. And the art is just beautiful.
Now, someone might be able to make an argument that finding fun in controlling armies of demons and devils is in fact a sin. But I doubt very much that such an argument would convince anyone, because there is a big difference between finding enjoyment in controlling cards and controlling real demons or devils. If you are the type of person who might feel drawn in by this world, or might find the thought of playing out these fantasies in real life attractive, then Magic might not be the game for you. The fear over DnD in the 80's was not a fear of the game itself, it was a fear of young people losing touch with reality. If you remember that you're only manipulating small pieces of paper on a table, as 99.9999999% of Magic players do, then there is, in my view, no moral dilemma at all.
I agree with @DarthParallax's encouragement to view books like LotR through a Christian lens (remember, Tolkien was a devout Catholic, and C.S. Lewis was a devout Christian.) Works of fantasy always draw upon real-world mythology. As we're in the Western world (most likely,) it shouldn't be surprising that figures of great virtue and great evil are drawn from the mythologies of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, all of which have tales of demons, devils, djinn, etc. as well as tales of saints and angels. Lorwyn drew upon traditional Celtic and English mythology, Kamigawa drew upon a number of different Asian religions, etc. Remember, what is the fundamental piece of Magic? Mana, the bread God sent to the Jews lost in the desert!
Magic is part of a long tradition of art that draws upon the real world to flesh out a fictional one, to make it more accessible. And ultimately, the world has been fleshed out enough that what was initially borrowed from the real world has become unique to this fictional one. Demons in Magic are no longer synonymous with demons of the Judeo-Christian tradition any more than its elves are synonymous with Tolkien's.
Playing Mono-black is no more immoral than watching The Exorcist or reading The Screwtape Letters. The colors of red and black allow you to approach the various challenges of Magic in new and unique ways. I'd also encourage you to read more on the game developers philosophy behind the Color Pie. Black and Red are capable of good just as much as White is capable of evil.
Magic is a damn fun game. As long as it remains a game in your mind, I encourage you and all other players of whatever background or creed to enjoy it as such.
Thanks for reading my novel, and God bless ;)
And both are crazy good.
A better situation is them wasting a removal spell on a 1 mana card.
The 4 direct damage is just added gravy.
Great in combination with other cheap burn cards like this:
Reverberate
Thunderous fury
Goblin arsonist
Brimstone volley
pillar of flame
guttersnipe
frostburn weird
searing spear
devil's play.
Being a Mono RED for years, you should know that all you care about is to hurt your opponents. I don't care if he's gonna die or not, if he's gonna be a small fry later (ehem I don't even think about "later", I just cause havoc as much as I can every turn).. That's why RED has lot's of spells that hurt themselves, because it won't matter at all as long as you're opponents will hurt MORE.
RED is what you can do NOW not LATER.
Vampiric Tutor 'on The Stick' is even nicer. :p
@TheWrathofShane-- I'll just summarize my last post because now I want to comment on the card for real. :)
"Green, White, and Blue are the Good Guys, Devils are the Bad Guys, and having Bad Guys on cards is actually a Good Thing, even for Good Guys. Innistrad was the most Religious-friendly block I can think of in the history of MTG, it actually had an Organized Church that turned out NOT to be secretly corrupt the whole time. You know how rare that is to find in Fantasy? Read up on Lord of the Rings and get back to us on Vexing Devil please. :) "
(Also, I would modify the support LordPoopsicle gave me by stating that from a Christian standpoint, White has equal capacity for Good and Evil, Orzhova being Magic's Poster-child for what happens when an organization like the Church of Avacyn becomes tainted with corruption (sadly inevitable, I really, REALLY like what Sorin gave Innistrad, and wish that he could have gathered a bunch of saints from different planes to help safeguard Innistrad, but likely Innistrad will one day succumb to Orzhovian-like Corruption :/ ) but Red and Black interestingly do not have the same moral equivalency, as what they are best at for the Accomplishment of Good is a Temporary fire or motivation, that after a victory has to be set aside in the Peace that follows. Their best virtues are Individualism and Freedom and Revolution, which ARE quite Good and powerful tools for opposing the wrongful Evil Oppression that HUMAN(or mortal non-human) governments and structures can hold people in domination with, BUT at the same time EVENTUAL SUBMISSION to a Moral Code one Truly Believes is Good is necessary for virtuous life, and Black's and Red's ''whole schtik'' is basically to be as un-submissive as possible. Righteous Rebellion against Injustice IS a Moral Good, but would anyone really say that Tony Stark or Han Solo are AS MORALLY GOOD as Yoda or Thor? No, they are just more Bad-Ass. ;) Except nobody is as Bad-Ass in the most recently-made Fantasy as the cinematic Thor. He's like Aragorn, the unrealistically Perfect 4-colored Non-Black Alignment o.o
I find that VOLUMES of Philosophy can be written about the Color Wheel, about the Guild Alignments, and about 3-color Identities. I feel that 3-color Identities most accurately represent Real People, and Four-Color Identities are really really cool "What Ifs'' that can fuel the imagination to create a Sci-Fi or Fantasy Story about "What if this Color was Missing from a World?" but that in Truth the 4-color alignments are very unrealistic to expect to find in any Possible Real world, since if you have at least 4, the 5th will be discovered by induction by the Scientists, Philosophers, and Artists of that world.
(with the caveat that a Religious person might or should want to discover that a Supreme Four-Colored Non-Black Being or Force is actually honestly True, not Fantasy or Fiction, and that the reason the Fifth Color, Black, exists in the World is that God's/the Force's 4-colored Nature gives it the Compassion and Knowledge to realize that Black is Necessary to be an enemy for White, and for a few other things, but Black is the least independently Good on its own. Its Goodness is like the Goodness of machine part performing a needed function successfully.)
I am stuck between Actually Being Riku-Aligned, striving to perfect how to be 5-colored with proper alottments to White and Black, and having great Compassion for Grixis and Kaalia Alignments, because they make the Stories just that Awesome. More White than Black; but it is quite difficult, which fuels my Red whether I want to or not from Frustration, and I've become VERY Green-Blue aligned in my attempts to approach that White in between them. I think any Psych Major, Philosopher, or Religiously-minded person really needs to study the Color Wheel, it's frigging Fascinating. o.O)
Vantha- So, Undying Evil and Cloudshift are the cards people want to 'combo' this guy with? I did read the top comment, and I was helped by -SOME- of it, but other parts seemed less clear.
"The ruling by a judge clearly states that the caster of Vexing Devil has to play instants before passing priority." This much is absolutely CLEAR, and is a very straightforward sentence that might help me parse out the rest on my own when I log off and read the cards next to each other carefully for myself.
You say things like 'it's already dead' or 'it's already exiled', but I still don't get it. :P
Torpor Orb and Undying Evil are the ''good cards'' to try B.S. with, is the Final Statement it appears, but I wish I had better certainty as to WHY. :)
Congratulations! You are now the worst person ever.
However, I can still see potential for use in a burn deck (where either choice seems good for
3.5/5
I think what I'm getting at here is "get over it, sport, it just isn't that big a deal".
On to the card - This is a nasty one-drop. I'd pay RR for it, with no problem. Chances are that in the first 2 or 3 turns, your opponent will just eat the damage. Which really just means you're getting a Lightning Bolt plus one damage. Isn't that just a crying shame?
If you're putting together your red aggro deck, this belongs in it. Up there with Rakdos Cackler, ironically another Devil, for solid one-drop creature picks. I'm using this, Rakdos Cackler, and Hellrider as the basis for an aggro Devil tribal deck for an upcoming casual Tribal event. Maybe I'll see if we can play it in a church. ;-)
Hello, Jund!
Seriously, why are people mucking around with Fling? Don't worry about the timing, just use Pandemonium.
Still no reason to even go there in the first place. Change demon to Dreadlord and devil to Defiler. Bam, you successfully satisfied all parties.
I know 3 Christians who play this game, there are 2 billion Christians on the planet. Not that hard to make something else up besides evil religious figures.
@lifegainwiddle
You provided no explanation why magic should print devils other then giving Christians the middle finger and basically implying we don't want you here. You are free to offend 2 billion people on this planet, this is a free nation. But do yourself a favor and come up with a real reason besides F Religion I do what I want.
As for the card, well balanced. 4 damage for
I don't have a problem with Christians, just the extremist ones like you that think everything is an insult to them, just like you were complaining on the Army of Allah page and numerous other pages. You're obviously too much of a coward to voice your extremism elsewhere so you complain and threaten to quit on the forums of a card game. And there might be 2 billion Christians but you are the only one that's complaining on these forums so clearly there are smarter and less extremist Christians out there who don't agree with you. Why should Wizards change demon to dreadlord and devil to defiler just to satisfy one extremist?
Stop being a child. If something offends you, deal with it. If you want to quit, quit but stop whinging and moaning about it wherever you can. To clarify (because obviously it's necessary), I am calling you a child, not all Christians. Do you need me to use shorter words?
Shane. We are sick of your childish whining and religious extremism about our beloved Devils and Demons.
Go away and leave us to our joyous angel slaughter and sacrificial human flaying.
We'll be fine without you. Thanx for comin out...
You can start by hitting the ground running... Or your opponent. Seems pretty damn strong to me.
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I might grab this for my Tajic deck. It runs both of the above cards for a silly little combo (which basically means they have to deal with the 4/3), and my deck is aggressive, so it wouldn't mind a turn 1 4 damage to the face.
@lifegainwithnibble I take his most recent edit to mean yes, he wants it in smaller words.
Quest for Pure Flame
Pandemonium
Mimic Vat
Eternal Warrior
And that's hilarious.
But no seriously, stop being assholes to each other.
Choice cards are always weaker because your opponent can chose whatever is most convenient for them. Although it may seem that this card gives you a turn 1 4/3, in reality your opponent will usually just take 4 damage, and the flipside in the lategame.
Now, I'm not saying that this is a weak card, just that it is balanced and fair.
For example:
Brimstone Volley
Tragic Slip
Furyborn Hellkite or some other bloodthirst creature
Disentomb
Me - And thus,the earth split,and from the infernal flames a sinister figure emerged,they call him Rakdos, Lord of Riots.
He's so pushed he looks very over-powered; to the point that people gawk at his power-level; but he's honestly well balanced and (to many people) quite mediocre. The reason for the success of these cards is that the drawback is invisible or looks easy to work around; but then it starts costing you games because.. well.. it was
Anyway.. I think the best use for this guy is with simple recursion mechanics: Tortured Existence, Unearth, and similar. He's made to push your tempo over-the-edge; but only if you can keep 1-mana spells flying at an incredible rate.
Just what I've noticed through my personal experiences