At what point did they think it was a good idea to print this?
"Hey guys, you know how creatures in Standard usually how power and toughness less than or equal to their mana costs? And how prevalent Liliana of the Veil has been recently? Well, hold on to your butts."
Totema
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(6 votes)
A sort of spiritual successor to Watchwolf, and even harder to stop.
SkyknightXi
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(4 votes)
I was thinking more spiritual successor to Dodecapod (the stats are averaged between Dodecapod's two initial possibilities, after all).
At least it doesn't have hexproof. Then it really would be a control deck's worst nightmare.
Valtiaal
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
There was a time when an uncounterable 4/4 with an anti-discard ability would cost 5-6 mana. And this is THREE? F***, Wizards. I don't know how this was a good idea especially since Soldier is a rather relevant card type.
RAV0004
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I kept thinking it was uncommon and "Fvck, I don't ever want to fight this when I go against Selesynya" while playing limited. Good to know it's actually a rare, and taking away said spot in my opponent's packs for the actual good stuff. Sure it's good enough for it's rarity, but there are much scarier things in Selesynya, like the Wurm, or the Grove.
lagg
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
This will surely go up in price, it's the essential brick in the wall of any G/W agroo or midrange. You can go with Call of the Conclave, then this, then Deadbridge Goliath and a special bom like Sigarda, Host of Herons. And have cards like Ulvenwald Tracker and Rancor
Potsofloopy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
There is just no trolling this guy. Novices like me will never play this card and there is nothing the pros will be able to not do about it. (ps: He dies to removal.)
Fenix.
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(4 votes)
Yay thanks wotc discard decks were running rampant!
LordOfTheFlies87
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
So, not to take away how bad-ass this guy is, but look at his mallet.
Awesome card. Even 4/4 for three is a good deal, it can't be countered, AND it's discard-proof?
Definite 5/5.
EDIT: Who down voted this card!???????????? It used to be a 5/5! Why?
Weevy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
At least we have one good (okay, great) Loxodon card now.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Cant be countered is a good ability, but overrated. Not every deck runs counters so this ability is not always relevant. The anti discard ability is also situational, but can be great if it pays off.
4/4 for 3 is over the curve already, and two handy abilities to boot. This is a solid creature, but it does not demand powercreep cries by any means. 4.5/5
Haelthor
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
When I read this I see it's a creature that has one ability "This dude WILL enter the field no matter what, the only thing KEEPING it there is his 4 toughness butt". I'll give it that its above the curve with P/TAND its in the 3-drop slot. All of this warrants its inclusion in any deck on color (at the very least its sideboard).
I can't give it 5/5 because: other than his ability to get into the fray no matter what, he doesn't really bring anything to the table (Silverblade Paladin is in the same slot and can do something relavant the turn it comes into play. And even a Fiend Hunter can guarantee a soft-kill on an enemy's creature whereas Smiter has to through combat.) It dodges Ultimate Price, which is great, but still dies to Murder, Mizzium Mortars, and Abrubt Decay.
EyePawd
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
A lot of potential in this card as an early mid-game distraction piece. It's going to be hard for your opponent to ignore this guy when he drops on the field, especially as a 3-drop.
canceric09
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I like how he has fingers, but his feet are probably still hoofed. 5/5
orisiti
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(5 votes)
"dies to Murder" So the whole "dies to removal" Line just got a lot dumber sounding (as well as more redundant)
It's not s flashy as the rest of his cycle, but I can see him being a reasonable beat stick. To bad it wasn't a sorcery that puts a 4/4 elephant soldier creature token into play... then it would have fit into it's guild better, and fit into the cycle better, as it would no longer be the only non instant/sorcery in the cycle.
Finally "walking elephants are the best" I agree... elephants that can't walk just make me depressed, unless they can't walk because they're drunk... then it's hilarious.
Axelle
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@j_mindfingerpainter: Yes, you can kill the Smiter. It's already on the battlefield by the time Big Game Hunter enters the battlefield. 1.) Liliana of the Veil's ability resolves. Loxodon Smiter is put onto the battlefield, and you pay and cast Big Game Hunter. 2.) Big Game Hunter enters the battlefield. 3.) Big Game Hunter's ability goes on the stack, targeting Loxodon Smiter. 4.) Loxodon Smiter is killed.
j_mindfingerpainter
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
EDIT: I have a kind of dumb question. Let's say you activate Liliana of the Veil's +1, and your kind opponent discards this or Obstinate Baloth onto the battlefield. It's not possible to pay {B} and discard Big Game Hunter targeting the free 4-power creature, is it? I think I know but I wanted to be sure.
SECOND EDIT: Thanks, Axelle. I couldn't find a decent enough response to a free discarded creature until Big Game Hunter.
flavioal28
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
A 4/4 for 3 mana, uncounterable, discard-proof, and still as to 04/07/12 it's rated 3.8. What the hell people?
HoboColin
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
so tempted to give him a low rating cause of power creep, bt mabie im just blameing the simptom, not the disease. pluss, i see some folks r actualy trying to get it up (the raiting, i mean). dont wana be the troll who ruins their eforts - but i refuse to give him a high raiting either, as an anti - powercreep protest! what hapens when a ccg reaches critical levels of powercreep? has it hapened before? im scared lol, well know its gone to far when they reprint the mind sculpor!
atemu1234
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Me, playing casual against friend who built a discard deck: (turn two) My opponent: Mind Rot! Me: Thanks for the Loxodon Smiter and the Dodecapod.
And at time of comment this card is rated 3.941. I don't see any downsides besides the being multicoloured, but that hardly matters in the right deck.
ARamos
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Damn, there's this guy whom I play with that always bring this card in second turn (thanks to avacyn's pilgrim) and he likes to call him the "Sexual Elephant". Al least my aggro deck is not that unefective against him.
Continue
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
for a 4/4 is already good. Look at Woolly Thoctar for a comparison: changing the to just removes 1 power. Then you tack on uncounterable and you have a great card. And then the pseudo-Madness is the icing on the cake. 5/5
Sound fun to attack like mad with viligance and trample until someone remove it. Then so what, you only paid 3 for it, just cast another and the equipment might still be there. growing +2/+2 per turn seems attractive.
Ya see, son, back in ma day, three mana 4/4s had drawbacks...
Bulhakas
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Not OP enough. Needs moar hexproof.
beleren2012
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I run four of these guys in my GW Soldier deck. One of my favorite new cards from Return to Ravnica.
SirZapdos
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You're activating Liliana of the Veil's +1 ability? OK, I can work with that.
azure_drake222222
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I'm surprised this card is rated below 4. It's a 4/4 for 3 mana!
Subtle_Kay
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@ElMikkino
I agree. By and large, Magic has done a much better job that other card games of not increasing the power level of their cards a lot over time, but the fact that this card can be so good and still not see much play makes me a little sad.
Lifegainwithbite
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Reminds me of Ash Zealot but even better for the mana..
blurrymadness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Save for being the wrong types, he works well as a replacement to Woolly Thoctar. Being uncounterable and surviving (or even relishing) opposing discard is quite powerful. He loses out on the 5 power naya effects, but IMO you'll probably want him instead simply because he's easier to cast and impossible to get rid of until they fling removal at him; in which case he's the same as the thoctar anyway.
Very good, 4/5, 4.5/5 card!
@Elmikinno His drawback is that he can't be countered, not even if you want to! ;)
Tayren
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
How this card is rated under 4 is beyond me.
It's a 3 cmc 4/4 with no drawback, and two upsides, for crying out loud.
tpkatsa
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
No downsides to this card whatsoever - this card is a house. 3 CMC for a 4/4 is fondly reminiscent of Watchwolf. Can't be countered and return-to-battlefield abilities are just icing on the cake. All-around great card - 5/5. I run 4 of these in my G/W deck.
spiney
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.9/5.0)(5 votes)
Imagine playing a Lotleth Troll on turn 2, and discarding this? You've just got 7 power ready to go on turn 3.
MRK1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Ha ha, you wish spiney. It doesn't have madness.
Seamless
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@spiney Read the card. It says a spell or ability your opponent controls.
MostlyLost
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
I love how, in these discussions, the cons have been reduced to "It doesn't do anything once it hits the field." Yup. Nothing except take out a fifth of your opponent's life total.
ShatterPalm
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
4/4 body - Good. CMC 3 - Great. Counter-proof - Amazing. But when you add in the fact that you could potentially discard this and thus play it for free, now we're getting nuts. Cards like this are what makes me believe this game has started getting severely power creeped, not because of how strong they are or how versatile, but because how cheap they are. If I were being realistic I would expect this to be a CMC 5, maybe 6. It's honestly a Baneslayer Angel, at this point: insanely powerful for very little cost. It's strange, I feel like I should hate it but I just can't. It's a 5/5 you have to give, knowing that it doesn't feel right.
vantha
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
My only wish is for them to Reprint Loxodon Warhammer it would be so fitting for this big guy to be equipping that hammer. Heck his artwork shows a hammer. 7/4 Trample, Lifelink, uncounterable 3 mana elephant. Somewhere out there someone is asking "Where's the Beef?"
Bob111634
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
if only the discard function applied to you as well mono red- 4 burningtree emissary lightning mauler go junk- lotleth troll 4 loxodon smiter go mono red-... i concede but alas they made the discard useless in standard
Zachrin
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
You people will complain about anything, won't you?
Like Haelthor said, this dude is undercosted for his P/T to begin with, and he WILL hit the field to start causing havoc. Do you really think you could give him another ability, and have it still fairly costed at 3cmc?
I swear, Wizards could print something at CMC1 with first strike, deathtouch, lifelink, haste, 'can't be countered', and 'when X dies, target opponent discards a card', and somebody here would complain that the discard is targeted or something.
I hate Gatherer comments, sometimes.
orzhov20
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@spiney it specificly says "an opponent controls"
mattrva77
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is one of those cards that you have to rate a 4.5 -- just because it definitely isn't of the awe-inspiring power or utility of a true 5-star card -- and it hurts you to do it.
SirLibraryEater
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Can someone please tell me what part of this card is making it fair at all? I'm not complaining about the 4/4 for 3, either. A vanilla one would have been excellent in Limited, and it would still see play in Constructed time to time. It would still be a good card to have. However, with the text box pretty much saying "This WILL enter the battlefield, or ELSE", I don't think it's fair anymore.
I played a game where my opponent did Liliana of the Veil's +1. He discarded a Slaughter Pact, his only removal spell, and I discarded this. Needless to say, I proceeded to beat him up for rest of the game.
@Phelplan: Loxodon Smiter is pay to win? He has been less than $1.5 for a long while now...
I don't get why people react to anything with power/toughness stats greater than its casting cost and think they're "overpowered" or "unfair". They aren't, although they are usually decent. For true overpoweredness in Standard, see Mutavault. There is a reason why that card has probably more than 10 times more demand than Loxodon Smiter, in Standard alone.
Fawxkitteh
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I'll never understand why they make such overpowered rubbish.
Comments (67)
"Hey guys, you know how creatures in Standard usually how power and toughness less than or equal to their mana costs? And how prevalent Liliana of the Veil has been recently? Well, hold on to your butts."
Power Creep.
As SyntheticDreamer said, it's pretty much Obstinate Baloth, except it costs 3 instead of 4 and is uncounterable..
Will it see tourney play?... Probably, but only if G/W is a viable tourney colour. It won't be the corner-piece of a G/W deck (unlike Call of the Conclave, Dryad Militant or Selesnya Charm).
And that's coming from a non-pro, so take it for what it's worth.
"Eh, it can't be better than Vraska the Unseen."
*reads card*
*jaw drops*
*squeals*
You can go with Call of the Conclave, then this, then Deadbridge Goliath and a special bom like Sigarda, Host of Herons.
And have cards like Ulvenwald Tracker and Rancor
Is it a giant lego?!
Definite 5/5.
EDIT: Who down voted this card!???????????? It used to be a 5/5! Why?
4/4 for 3 is over the curve already, and two handy abilities to boot. This is a solid creature, but it does not demand powercreep cries by any means. 4.5/5
I can't give it 5/5 because: other than his ability to get into the fray no matter what, he doesn't really bring anything to the table (Silverblade Paladin is in the same slot and can do something relavant the turn it comes into play. And even a Fiend Hunter can guarantee a soft-kill on an enemy's creature whereas Smiter has to through combat.) It dodges Ultimate Price, which is great, but still dies to Murder, Mizzium Mortars, and Abrubt Decay.
So the whole "dies to removal" Line just got a lot dumber sounding (as well as more redundant)
It's not s flashy as the rest of his cycle, but I can see him being a reasonable beat stick. To bad it wasn't a sorcery that puts a 4/4 elephant soldier creature token into play... then it would have fit into it's guild better, and fit into the cycle better, as it would no longer be the only non instant/sorcery in the cycle.
Finally "walking elephants are the best"
I agree... elephants that can't walk just make me depressed, unless they can't walk because they're drunk... then it's hilarious.
1.) Liliana of the Veil's ability resolves. Loxodon Smiter is put onto the battlefield, and you pay
2.) Big Game Hunter enters the battlefield.
3.) Big Game Hunter's ability goes on the stack, targeting Loxodon Smiter.
4.) Loxodon Smiter is killed.
SECOND EDIT: Thanks, Axelle. I couldn't find a decent enough response to a free discarded creature until Big Game Hunter.
(turn two)
My opponent: Mind Rot!
Me: Thanks for the Loxodon Smiter and the Dodecapod.
CAN'T BE COUNTERED
4/4
ANTI-DISCARD
SOLDIER SUB-TYPE
And at time of comment this card is rated 3.941. I don't see any downsides besides the being multicoloured, but that hardly matters in the right deck.
Ring of Kalonia
Ring of Thune
Sound fun to attack like mad with viligance and trample until someone remove it.
Then so what, you only paid 3 for it, just cast another and the equipment might still be there.
growing +2/+2 per turn seems attractive.
Wouldn't risk a Shield of the Oversoul to lose card advantage,
but a Privileged Position would ensure that it get few turn to grow. would be nice.
I agree. By and large, Magic has done a much better job that other card games of not increasing the power level of their cards a lot over time, but the fact that this card can be so good and still not see much play makes me a little sad.
Very good, 4/5, 4.5/5 card!
@Elmikinno
His drawback is that he can't be countered, not even if you want to! ;)
It's a 3 cmc 4/4 with no drawback, and two upsides, for crying out loud.
CMC 3 - Great.
Counter-proof - Amazing.
But when you add in the fact that you could potentially discard this and thus play it for free, now we're getting nuts. Cards like this are what makes me believe this game has started getting severely power creeped, not because of how strong they are or how versatile, but because how cheap they are. If I were being realistic I would expect this to be a CMC 5, maybe 6. It's honestly a Baneslayer Angel, at this point: insanely powerful for very little cost. It's strange, I feel like I should hate it but I just can't. It's a 5/5 you have to give, knowing that it doesn't feel right.
mono red- 4 burningtree emissary lightning mauler go
junk- lotleth troll 4 loxodon smiter go
mono red-... i concede
but alas they made the discard useless in standard
Like Haelthor said, this dude is undercosted for his P/T to begin with, and he WILL hit the field to start causing havoc. Do you really think you could give him another ability, and have it still fairly costed at 3cmc?
I swear, Wizards could print something at CMC1 with first strike, deathtouch, lifelink, haste, 'can't be countered', and 'when X dies, target opponent discards a card', and somebody here would complain that the discard is targeted or something.
I hate Gatherer comments, sometimes.
I'm not complaining about the 4/4 for 3, either. A vanilla one would have been excellent in Limited, and it would still see play in Constructed time to time. It would still be a good card to have.
However, with the text box pretty much saying "This WILL enter the battlefield, or ELSE", I don't think it's fair anymore.
If I could give a different and more reasonable casting cost to this guy it would be
{R}: Flame Slash.
{W}{G}: ....
I don't get why people react to anything with power/toughness stats greater than its casting cost and think they're "overpowered" or "unfair". They aren't, although they are usually decent. For true overpoweredness in Standard, see Mutavault. There is a reason why that card has probably more than 10 times more demand than Loxodon Smiter, in Standard alone.
WHERE IS THE DRAWBACK?