Just commenting that as of the time of this comment when Tibalt has just been spoiled people don't think he'll make impact.
It'll be interesting to come back to this card in a year or so and see what's happened.
.Blaze.
★☆☆☆☆ (1.4/5.0)(4 votes)
Distracts your opponent from you for a little while. Digs you deeper. Can set up the grave in frites. Great vs. Control. While he isn't insane, he is only 2 mana, and should see play in some decks.
MyrBattlecube
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(17 votes)
Say what you will about his effectiveness, but you can't deny that Tibalt is the most snappily dressed Planeswalker yet. Look at him. So pimp the smoke can't handle him and tries to escape from the card.
Trygon_Predator
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(6 votes)
It's Him! With all the references to cartoon superhero girls, that was bound to be mentioned sooner or later. 2 CMC has to count for something. I'd give him some time. Right now I wish his + ability added more loyalty counters.
RJDroid
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(17 votes)
Pimpin' his way across the planes.
+1: Where's my money?
-4: What a lovely hand you have there! Shame if anything happens to it.
-8: *PIMPSLAP* You work for me now. Smack that guy over there for me, would you?
Xilinoc
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(10 votes)
Romeo & Juliet references in the art and name.
OHMAHGAWDYES
oddmonk
★☆☆☆☆ (1.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Imma let you finish, but Tibalt is the baddest mutha on Innistrad...
Seriously though, he costs RR to cast! Of course the +1 cannot be obviously good. You have to make it good. So, maybe he won't be a tournament staple, but he is going to be fun and dynamic to play with.
theoneandonlyjoseph
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(7 votes)
i have been thinking of putting together a red/black madness deck. he will do nicely. the randomness makes it more fun!
Splizer
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(6 votes)
I like how his devil-hair gets in the way of his name. In fact, his name is actually Tibalt, The Fiend-Blcoded".
As for that first ability...1) Red has lots of lovely flashback spells to use, so let's use them from the graves! 2) Grim Lavamancer likes crap in the grave, 3) Chandra's Phoenix, obviously, is good with him and 4) Other reanimation strategy. I want to use him in a janky W/B/R reanimation deck with Griselbrand and Unburial Rites.
Mirran_Savior
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(11 votes)
Look, it's Skrillex, Planeswalker!
Lohran
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(9 votes)
Azazel overdid his last teleport and found Innistrad.
axiobeta
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(2 votes)
What a chill dude. He certainly got stuck on an awkward card though. I'd be seriously impressed if I see anybody actually pull off the second two abilities tomorrow. It seems Wizards got cold feet while they designed the first two-mana PW. Shame. 4/5 because he clearly doesn't even care :P
ScarabKnight
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(8 votes)
"Turn thee, Benvolio, and look upon thy death"
sl33tbl1nd
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@MyrBattlecube
Not really, the random part of the discard ability makes him much harder to use than any current cards used for discarding.
morgoth424
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@ lohran
is that supernatural reference i smell?
Nucleon
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(6 votes)
1 CMC Planeswalker countdown begins. If they're willing to make a 2 CMC Planeswalker, it's just a matter of time.
PinkleDadandy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@morgoth424 actually Azazel is from the X men
Also This Planeswalker is by far my favorite so far His back story is quite disappointing but he's a half devil half human which is cool he is by far the classiest of the planeswalkers and he is low costing which makes up for his mortality somewhat unlike some of the others this guy's pretty balanced kind of narrow but i dont care too much about that
other then that though I think he would be interesting to see in a duel deck Tibalt vs Gideon!
nessy_ydissac
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
I cannot say how much I love this new planeswalker. Here are my reasons:
1. He costs two mana, the fastest of all planeswalkers.
2. He's actually pretty balanced and in a good way.
3. He's half-devil for pete's sake, AND a mad scientist.
Also someone pointed out to me at the prerealease that his name comes from a character in Romeo and Juliet which is awesome.
tahunuva
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(9 votes)
Better than he looks, I think, with the proper considerations.
The most important thing to remember about Tibalt is that unlike most other 'walkers, you don't want to be using him every turn. Leave him out, keep him protected with blockers and spot burn, and +1 when it'd be advantageous to do so. Keep him around long enough and you'll get tons of value out of him, especially if you line up his -4 after a Reforge the Soul or such, just don't expect him to do tons of flashy things every turn. His value is a lot more subtle than we're used to Planeswalkers being, especially in red.
gatorjunkie
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(6 votes)
Just some random thoughts after looking at this card:
1. I love it that there is a Planeswalker who actually can beat Mana Leak to the punch, assuming you go first.
2. This card makes me want to take another look at Slag Fiend and Kuldotha Phoenix, as I always wanted to build a deck around the two.
3. It is pretty obvious that wizards is trying to push red graveyard decks when you consider cards like this and Faithless Looting.
4. Turn 2: Mountain, then Tibalt, then use his +1. Turn 3: Mountain, then Volt Charge, then use his -4
Madrai
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I don't care if Urza is dead, timespiral his ass back to make a planeswalker card for him.
WhiteyMcFly
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(9 votes)
Now all we need is a Romeo planeswalker.
dlgn
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(3 votes)
Amazing with Tamiyo, +1 isn't terrible in the right deck. Very versatile. I especially like how you can use his -4 to either take advantage of your own fortune, or put a good spin on the fortune of your opponent. Works well with Gwafa Hazid. 4.5/5
Lord_of_Tresserhorn
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(6 votes)
In my most crazy pre-release draw ever, I got him TWICE today, once normal, once as a foil!!!! o_O
And then... did not play him, because the rest of my red was crap. :<
EDIT: Goes very well with Library of Leng. Draw a card, then maybe set up that miracle you drew in your opening hand as the next topdeck.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Amazing art, good card in the right deck. 5/5
blindthrall
★★☆☆☆ (2.9/5.0)(4 votes)
A tiefling. Huh.
Paradigm012
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I opened one of these the other day. I stared at it for a couple minutes. I have no clue what to do with this guy... TIME TO EXPERIMENT!!!
Yozuk
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I just want to make a red friends deck. With Him, Chandra 3.0 and Koth. Drop Tibalt, then Koth, then use Koth to drop Chandra, then lay down some artifacts and use Molten Psyche and win... maybe I'm living in Magic Christmas land... But it sounds like a cool idea!!!
LlanowarEmissary
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(8 votes)
I'm really skeptical about Tibalt. His +1 is pretty controversial at the moment and I'm leaning on the side of the naysayers. There are some instances where this can be useful, but I feel like red decks would rather have another burn spell in that slot. If Madness gets brought back as a mechanic or flashback cards become more playable, he'll be a force to reckon with. His -4 is very good against control, but not much else. His -6 is pretty underwhelming for me, but Wizards has been pushing creatures like crazy so maybe it'll be useful more often than not.
Overall, he require very subtle play and I'm not convinced he's worth the effort.
3/5
Judgemaster_Rolan
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(2 votes)
The cheapest Planeswalker out there, and the more players there are in the game, the more players that will lose the game right after his -6 ability is used! :D
GengilOrbios
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(3 votes)
I don't really appreciate this card, although I find the flavour really badass. The fact that it is a 2-mana planeswalker does not automatically make it playable! Tibalt comes into play very early, but he does hardly do anything for you to win the game. The +1-ability is too risky and the -4 costs too much loyalty counters and most often comes too late. The -6-ability is actually the biggest reason to play him. At least in limited, it can be quite a threat. Overall, I think Tibalt is the worst planeswalker ever printed (which doesn't say really much since there is no completely bad planeswalker) , but I still like the flavour (hellboy! :P) and he's definetely playable in limited. 3.5
DacenOctavio
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I like to think of him as that two mana button you install on your side of the table that reads "mulligan a card at random in your hand." When you start drawing lands, it comes in handy.
Vakyoom
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
This card is a sleeper cell... Get him while he's still $13-17 folks, he'll go up soon enough.
2 mana cost to get new hand options? count me in... Leave him alone and get burned for you hand size. Leave him alone even longer and you lose the game.
Again, he's two mana to play. And as others have said, you don't HAVE to use his +1 on turns that you don't want to lose a random card in your hand. Simple as that, people just don't get it.
All in all, he does his job perfectly. He's a huge distraction for people, giving yet another difficult choice to your opponent. Do i leave him alone and feel the wrath from his -4/-6 later? Or do i focus him down and fail to target their creatures? Should i use an instant or sorcery on this planeswalker instead of a creature/player? WHAT TO DO?!!
Bottom line: If he gets his -6 off you win or if your deck does its original job, you win. and by the way, he costs just two mana. (O_0)
Austin_the_1st
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Would his -6 take over creatures with hexproof or shroud?
mdakw576
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
His minus abilities aren't that exciting. Yeah, insurrection is pretty funny (even though the card itself is bad because 8 mana for that ability is terrible outside of EDH), but it's best as a surprise, and tibalt won't be surprising them with his ultimate. His -4 does a little bit of damage but not something a shrine of burning rage can't do. Of course, this means whether or not he's good depends on his +1. Yeah, random discard sucks, as well as the RR cost (meaning he's difficult to drop turn 2 if you are playing 3-color or more) but he does do a few things that are worth considering.
- He can make bad starting hands playable where you would otherwise mulligan. A hand with, say, 6 lands + tibalt might actually be keepable, as there's a good chance when you +1, you will pitch one of the lands. Or 2 lands + tibalt + 4 high cmc cards. He can help you dig for your land drops, but of course the few times you do pitch the cards you want does suck. - He has decent synergy with flashback cards, or just decks that don't mind having things in graveyards (say, UR pyromancer for modern).
Tibalt is a niche card, which is perfectly fine as I don't enjoy having rares/mythics become staple cards (loljace, lolsnapcaster). he WILL eventually find a home, but it will be a narrow home, and he will not be expensive because of it.
Does anyone realize how much Tamiyo and Tibalt are linked? Look at Tamiyo's ultimate and Tibalt's first (Pretty much just says "Draw two cards"! Insanity considering you boost him, and draw cards! Also, with Tibalt's ultimate+Tamiyo's second+Venser's journal+right amount of mana=instant game win! Great combo (at least in my opinion)! 5/5!
wowwhatacunt
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
this is a planeswalker that will be extremely overlooked because it is the first planeswalker (as well as liliana of the veil in some cases, rarely however) that you wont use one of his abilities every single turn with any sort of consistency. at least this is the case for decks that dont use the graveyard extensively, in decks that do, his ability is not only a gurantee every turn but then turns into a very cheap source of card advantage. his middle ability is decent, but his first ability will be what eventually makes him broken in the right deck after he goes through thorough play testing. you dont have to use his ability every turn, but there are so many times when drawing an extra card because your hand has nothing but lands or spells and you need the one you lack, and otherwise would be stuck without, well, since you played a planeswalker which can also block for you as well, second turn for the whole two mana he costs, you can draw a card and have a free opportunity at getting the card you need. if your hand is set, then dont use his ability, in fact, if hes in your hand and you dont want to disturb your hand, beause you can do other things, then dont put him on the battlefield. cast him as the last card from your hand and every turn if you dont like the card you drew, you draw another card and increase your chances of getting a better card every turn and the game is still about the speed of getting things out on the battlefield or getting things off the battlefield with relative haste, this card does nothing but increase your chances of doing so and at a faster rate than otherwise. if the opponent doesnt feel this card is very effective, all the better. just keep using his ability and eventually he'll have 6 counters on him and the game will be over shortly after. even if his middle or big ability isnt used, his first is really what he'll be not only known for but what the real reward of using him in a deck will bring. if there was an enchantment that granted me a this opportunity to use this ability every turn, especially with a sensei's divining top on the field, i would use it in a heartbeat. instead the ability is on a planeswalker that gets on the field fast, costs almost nothing and can has other abilities that are even worse on it. this card should end up as one of the most broken planeswalkers of all time, the only reason its not right now is because of the fear casual players bring to the process of building decks. casual players hate the idea of losing or risking anything, which will make this card, a card that is brought to standard tournaments by people who know what they are doing and will stomp the decks without it. there is also the point that this card is not one in which the abilities has to be used every turn, like every other planeswalker in the game, which is also why this card hasnt been put into a dominant deck yet. its unusual, but once this card is learned how to be properly used, it will be considered a top five planewalkers without question.
DarthParallax
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(6 votes)
The Devil Went Down to Gavony, he was looking for a Soul to Steal, He was in a Bind, cuz he was way behind, 'an he was willing to make a Deal, When he saw this young wolf grinding a Pro Tour and playing it hot, then The Devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said say "boy let me tell ya wot"
Now I guess you didn't know it but I'm a MAGIC player too, And if you care to take a Dare, I'll make a bet with you! Now you play a pretty good Dredge deck son, but give the Devil his due, I bet a Lotus of Gold against your Soul cuz I think I'm better than you! And the young man said 'Now my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin, But I'll TAKE your bet your gonna regret cuz I'm the best that's ever been!
Johnny you shuffle up your deck and get your game on hard, 'Cos Hell's broke loose at the Pro Tour and the Devil deals the cards! And if you win you get these shiny Petals made of Gold-- But if you lose, the Devil gets your Sol! (Ring)
The Devil opened up his case and he said: "I'll start this show." And fire flew from his fingertips as he randomized those sleeves. And he drew his cards into his hands and it made an evil hiss. Then Hordes of Demons joined in and it sounded something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txo06c1k9sk
When the Devil finished, Johnny said: "Well you're pretty good ol' son. "But sit down in that chair, right there, and let me show you how its done!" He played:
The Devil bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat. He laid that Gilded Lotus on the ground at Johnny's feet. Johnny said: "Devil just come on back if you ever want to try again. "Cause I told you once, you son of a gun, I'm the best there's ever been." He played:
Fire in the Flames, sons Burn Dead Wins! STAR WARS in the house, it's a Sith Lord's din! Dragonforce Battle, rocking like sin! Ani can you Rock Band? Chosen One's End!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sungykijn7E
Henrietta
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
v He's not broken because he's a bad planeswalker. He has seen literally zero tournament play since his release, even in Block where the power level is much lower, and he's worth less than almost any other Planeswalker on the secondary market - because few people want such a bad card. He has low loyalty, a flip-a-coin +1, and not enough upside on his -4/-6 to offset having to flip multiple coins over multiple turns. In almost any situation where his -6 would be good, he would be losing loyalty from being attacked anyways, since he has no means of protecting himself and his -6 requires them to have at least one creature and ideally multiple good ones.
Wisdomseyes
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I will just redo this entire post.
+1: This is the ability people look at to judge all planeswalkers. With tibalt's, what people look at is that it is random. That you can't drop any particular card you want to throw away. So, we start to look at the random and discard it as crap because it "doesnt do anything"
With Tibalt's +1, you are guaranteed what? 1) You are guaranteed to draw 1 card. 2) You are guaranteed to discard 1 card. 3) You are guaranteed to get 1 more loyalty than before. 4) You are guaranteed one more card in your graveyard.
This is important, because these guarantees are what made him "random" and not "discard a card". These are powerful guarantees.
And with that 3rd point, we get into his other abilities.
-4: If you lay out tibalt turn 2, his ability to deal massive damage to your opponent is enough to make him a threat. 2 mana, X damage that can't be countered is a really mean idea. X damage is more powerful with control and tempo decks than it is with aggro, and even early game aggro type decks will sometimes not lose all of their cards early on. Not everything is RDW.
-6: Creatures gain haste and your opponents blockers become your offensive assets. This ability, in a creature heavy metagame, is very scary. Your opponent lays out a fatty and suddenly it is a bad thing because you have tibalts -6 on your side.
part of tibalts power is that people forget that he has 2 other abilities. And when they do remember, understand he is 2 mana spent for opponents to "waist" a O ring or creature attacks on him. He is worth his mana.
RW with black spashed also has a nice job of using hism with faithless looting, him, and reforge to get creature in the grave for defy death and unburial rights. Yes, he is actually quite usable in frites builds of mostly red early game looting. And most frites builds right now use faithless looting early game to trash stuff (though the combo of spellbomb and surgical bother being in standard right now stops it from being used often, but comes up often enough to cause people to put either of thses in their sideboard... and i hope someone doesnt say grafdiffers cage works to, because often it doesnt. you would have to ingnore the fact your decks like using the graveyard to, to run grafdiggers cage effectively)
@Henrietta: you are correct on almost all accounts.
There are still planeswalkers, and quite a few of them, worth 1/5 of his value in terms of money. Also, you can't talk much of his standard tournament play when there have been no major tournaments for standard since his release thus far. Block is a very BAD place to look at his playablility, because when you look at block, you see silverheart and geist. What red deck won? What deck ran red, actually, outside of just splashing it in for pillar of flame to deal with strangleroot. I can't think of, well, any. You do have a good point on his -6, but as I said above... creatures are attacking hima nd not you. That can be considered quite good. And his "coin flip" as you say, is far greater than 50% chance in your favor unless you have 1 card in your hand at the time.. and if you had 1 card in your hand at the time, that "choose" wouldnt have helped you any more than randomly discarding.
@atemu1234: See Henrietta's post and add, "because 2 mana isnt the value of the card. 2 mana is great, but is 2 mana worth what you are getting. The fact that it is a planeswalker means nothing towards its playablility. It is very specific in what it can do, and that currently doesnt fit into any deck build commonly seen at the top of tournaments. " ---------------------------------- I would not be shocked if there was a top 8 build or such that uses him, and then everyone who hated him will say "i knew he had potential all along" like everyone does. I knew cavern of souls wouldnt be a 4 of in all decks, but would be played in 1 or 2. You can see my post on it on Magic Spoilers and the date stamp if you wish. I knew that there were flaws in it, and I was called a noob for it. It's funny how wrong those people where. My point is, if someone else has to see the value in a card and win with it before you see it yourself, then you will never be winning any actual tournaments any time soon.
RiPPeR89
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
libray of leng make this card usable
vantha
★☆☆☆☆ (1.2/5.0)(2 votes)
3/5. I will be the first one to say his abilities are subpar. It requires a specific deck type to run Tibalt and that makes him very narrow like Nisa Revane. I have 3 copies and have begun playtesting them and every time I resolve a Tibalt and use his +1 I always manage to lose the card that I drew. His random discard is very Red, and maintaing an actual handsize of 2 or 3 cards isn't what Red wants to do anyway. I think WOTC missed the mark when they designed this planeswalker.
TheManakinTransfer
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So close to the Blue/Red chaos walker that I've been hoping for. Just a little bit too unpredictable and underpowered. Still fantastic early game in red though. 4/5
Dream_Twist
★☆☆☆☆ (1.2/5.0)(2 votes)
Very underrated in general. Any deck that is running Koth or faithless looting deserves this as at least a 1 of in it. The reason for that is because his second ability is an amazing finisher in and of itself and should that last ability go off (insurrection? not that it ever has for me) then that's basically the game right there.
People aren't too thrilled about the random discard but considering the typical red deck is about 30% burn and around 20% creatures, it takes out a portion of the random-ness. You're probably going to get rid of a card that is effectively in multiples anyway and draw is draw.
A final thought on him is that I like him because he can fuel a second miracle in a turn... a super miracle if you will. 2 thunderous wraths? Reforge and Bonfire? I could easily see it happening and that's absolutely priceless.
BorosGeneral
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Too bad it says end of turn, can't use Sundial to take all those creatures and keep them.
MechaKraken
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I was at a draft today, and during the first turn in which we passed packs, the guy across from me found Tibalt in the pack that was passed to him. If that isn't a statement, I don't know what is.
KnexWiz
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(6 votes)
i don't like him, i see his potential, but i don't like him, i avoid opening packs with his face on them.
Grumman
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
If nothing else, the +1 ability should have been "Discard a card at random, then draw a card". How the creators of a top-down block missed this opportunity to give a half-devil a de facto Hellbent ability is beyond me.
Talas_Merchant
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
His outfit makes me think of lord Sheogorath in some way. In terms of the card itself, though, I have mixed feelings. The color Red could use a more solid 'walker, but it's ok as it is. I'd be happy to own one copy of Tibalt to try him out in some kind of graveyard-based or forced draw deck alongside Cerebral Vortex and lots of flashback cards and recursive creatures... But I don't know if it would lead to anything consistent... If only he was "discard a card, then draw a card". Oh, well... I must stop ranting.
Gcrudaplaneswalker
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This can actually work in a Flashback deck under proper circumstances. Just take a look at the M13 Event Deck, Sweet Revenge.
Shadoflaam
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Best game ever: 3 player game. During lunch at my high school, after English class. I'm running UR Delver against a Tempered Steel and a Humans deck, and I'm massively manaflooded. Finally, I resolve this guy. Some cards, finally. Next turn, I'm blown out following an O-Ring and a swing for 14. I stand up, pick up Tibalt, and start shouting "A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES!" I was given an honorary win.
blizzardspectre
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I love the story, flavor, and art. I wished the R&D took a risk in printing him with"+1: discard a card, then draw a card." his -4 ability is cool but conditional. good for those greedy hands. his -6 ability is also conditional. you'll activate it only if you're opponent has creatures worth stealing to attack with or you'll just continue looting with him.
his minus abilities are so dependent on your opponent.
Dragasm
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
This is probably my favorite planeswalker next to Nicol Bolas. Normally I dislike how gamebreaking planeswalkers can be, but they nailed it with this guy. He's a devil, thus he's cheap to get out and his plus one can be very...cheeky. His -4 is most excellent especially after casting time reversal or a similar spell. His final ability grabs ALL creatures, all of them. I am very glad they named him Tibalt...and his art is supreme along with his back story.
lorendorky
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Ahead of his time. If Rakdos is a thing in Return to Ravnica he could shine.
GracefulInferno
★★★★☆ (4.6/5.0)(7 votes)
Tibalt, the Fiend-Blooded: because running two copies of Insurrection in your EDH deck is cheating.
SyntheticDreamer
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(6 votes)
Lots of potential but no actual use. The least valuable planeswalker in Magic right now, by far.
j_mindfingerpainter
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(16 votes)
"Who has the more badass coat; Sorin or Tibalt?" Posted By: Splizer (on Sorin Markov m12 version)
I don't know, but apparently there's going to be a DUEL DECK to decide that.
majinara
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I have him in multiples in a casual multiplayer black red deck, that uses charmbreaker devils to replay instants and sorceries, flashback spells, and rise from the grave to reanimate creatures. He's pretty neat there.
HappyJackington
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I use this guy in my red green werewolves deck and he is a boss! I only run one of him so far, but he serves his purpose by letting me wade through my deck when I have a bad hand, and he soaks up so much damage from my opponents who are afraid of me being able to get his ultimate off. The fact that he is also a two drop is just icing on the cake.
4.5/5 because discarding a card at random is very hard to take, even for a mindless agro deck.
Drewsel
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I think part of his appeal that no one seems to notice is the consideration your opponent puts in attacking him. He isn't really a theat, so why waste a turn attacking Tibalt when you could lower their life? Tibalt naturally circumvents planeswalker hate, and thus he's more likely to stay out longer.
Worst case scenario you spent 2 mana.
wholelottalove
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(3 votes)
Meh planeswalker is meh.
psychichobo
★☆☆☆☆ (1.6/5.0)(4 votes)
Madness decks make this guy pretty scary, let me tell you.
asimath
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So I have a question about this guy:
If he's got 4 counters and I use his second ability, will the damage still be caused, or will it be countered since he is no longer on the board?
also the art is pretty neat.
atemu1234
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
OK... this is probably the first bad planeswalker I've seen, but I've got two of them in a burn deck, so it's not HORRIBLE... but sorin wins. Every damn time.
kazenpaus
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Sure, he won't win you games on his own, but a two CMC card isn't supposed to do that. I'd say he's perfect for two mana. Plus, he's the best-dressed planeswalker we've ever had, that counts for something.
The "at random" part, for me, completely kills the card. He can be dropped on turn 2, sure, but it's never really advantageous to discard at random.
ZHAce_
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
pretty underestimated card, which can work to your advantage. most opponents don't really try to do anything to this guy right here unless they have nothing else better to attack or until he gets his ultimate ability.
Sironos
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
He screams "BUILD AROUND ME" like no other planeswalker, except of course for Nissa. I Made a modern deck based entirely around making him work, with bloodghasts, flashbacks, demigod of revenge and stuff like that, and he was still kinda underwhelming, even at 2CMC. He embodies the aspect of red that most people don't like, randomness/luck, and that makes him undesirable by his very nature. They should have made him cost 3CMC and changed his +1 to "Discard a card. If you do, draw a card." As it is now, yes he is 2CMC, but he is heavy red coloured, and red usually wants something more tempo than this. But I don't blame Wizards, when you make your first 2CMC walker, you really want to be careful not to make it too strong. Maybe they should just not make planeswalkers at 2CMC, it's very hard to make them balanced but useful. He doesn't really have a place in standard at this time (gatecrash might change that), and in modern you would usually much rather run shrine of burning rage or kargan dragonlord, or pretty much any of the good red 2 drops instead of this guy. He really has no home, he is too slow for aggro, too random for control, too dependable on building the deck around him, and not offering enough reward for it. Red really gets the worst planeswalkers, the only good walker we've seen in red is Koth imo.
Knight-Master
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(5 votes)
Look, you DO NOT call this guy the 'worst' or 'first bad' planeswalker unless you are willing to face the awfulness that was Nissa Revane. You do not print a planeswalker that relies upon a playset of another card. You do not suggest that this is worse than that planeswalker. This guy costs two. Boom.
To regain my internet dignity, maybe I just say that I unintentionally created a character in D&D that is nearly identical to Tibalt? He's a Tiefling Invoker...
AnonymousPerson
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(5 votes)
Worst planeswalker ever. Seriously a 2 with a minus 6. This card sucks.
MisterAction
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(9 votes)
Folks, his abilities might not be too impressive, but you've got to remember that the following is true of every planeswalker:
1) They activate every turn, for free, and give you several options. 2) Getting rid of them requires your opponent to use resources that would have been directed at you. Even if they don't live very long, they usually buy you an extra turn. 3) If not dealt with in a timely manner, they have an ultimate ability that will most often win you the game.
Tibalt doesn't look that powerful, but all three of these things are true about him. And he costs two mana.
There's no way this is a bad card.
Dyrklord
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Well I think I figured out the perfect deck for Tibalt, Everyone knows TurboFog, well how about Burning Fog. I think Tibalt could be a great Win condition if he can be protected enough An then of course a sideboard would be needed to change it up a bit.
Does anyone else think something can be done with him? Perhaps a Straight Forward Burn deck maybe? I see him becoming something An I am not going to give up on him yet.
Salient
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I've never seen a card so thoroughly hated by the people it was obviously supposed to appeal to. It's the Joker in planeswalker form! Agent of chaos! ... Shucks. OK, go on and hate him then.
I find him fun but maddening, which I guess is how you're supposed to feel. I tried making a mono-red-for-discard Tibalt dredge deck just for the 'hell' of it -- Tibalt, Devastating Dreams, Gamble and Faithless Looting. Hitting off Mountains was surprisingly easy, and it was awesome to let Anger provide haste instead of needing to resolve Dread Return for FKZ.
And really, Tibalt... wasn't terrible. Getting to dredge twice a turn every turn is nice. The problem I ran into was, Tibalt's other abilities are pointless in Dredge. 2-3 damage? Pass. If I get to his -6, it's because the other player didn't have a whole lot of creatures.
shotoku64
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The biggest thing Tibalt has against him is his mana cost. On one hand, planeswalkers are supposed to be really good i.e game-winning good. They are supposed to largely affect the field when you play them. On the other hand, two mana cards aren't supposed to win you the game. They are there for establishing tempo, and are usually some utility card/creature or an aggro. Control spells also fall into this slot. Seems like wizards played it safe and went with making him a good 2cmc card rather than a good planeswalker. Not trying to kick him down any further than he already is, just saying that he's not what people expect in a planeswalker, because if he was red deck aggro would have broken every format
Lifegainwithbite
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
This guy is pretty much swept under the rug. I didn't even know he existed in my first six months or so of playing mtg. Not even a decent two drop... Until now, I thought every planeswalker was a threat and worth playing but I would just laugh if I ever saw this played. Random discard that you have to use twice before you use any other abilities... what a joke.
Enchurito.
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I can see him being useful in a R/G legacy madness deck.... and that's about it; and he's not even that great there because you can't control which one you discard at the exact moment you need. I pulled him in the prerelease sealed deck event, played him and found him to be utterly worthless, infact more than worthless as I swayed red to play him. I was happy when I traded that exact tibalt I pulled along with some of the bad rare miracles for a revised scrubland when he was about $30. Then two weeks later he plummeted to $10, now he's $2.99 at star city.
kor6sic6
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The lowest rated planeswalker, and with good reason. He's just too unreliable.
Could have been SO much better... A real shame, I love the art. As for this mythical Better Tibalt, I propose:
2{R}{R} Tibalt, The Fiend-Blooded
+1:Draw two cards, then discard two cards.
-3: Take control of target creature until end of turn. It gains haste.
-7: Take control of all non-land permanents target player controls. All creatures gain haste. At the end of the turn, destroy all stolen creatures.
{3}
Cyberium
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Madness, threshold, and hellbent keywords, reanimation spells, Cursed Scroll, you'd see his effectiveness expanded.
Smoke_Stack
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I just wish he was a little higher cost and started with a higher loyalty so you had the option of doing his -4 as you cast him. I think he could be good if you did some kind of U/R combo with snapcaster or some way of interacting with your graveyard. Really tho, he IS about tempo and if he comes down at the right moment (when you don't mind cycling some cards) he could do some work.
I'll also be interested to see if the price drops even lower when the duel decks come out...
h8yuns
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(8 votes)
Nissa Revane might not be the best planeswalker but is far from the worst. She gets +1 for making blockers ,which are upper curve anyway if you get stuck with one in hand, to defend herself till ultimate, *and* the creatures she puts out recycle, *and* that feeds her second ability which *also* gives her +1, *and* her ultimate is not shabby at all, *and* the aforementioned ultimate feeds into her secondary all over again. You don't ever have to subtract from her until her ultimate, she makes a near endless supply of chump blockers, and when you do get her ultimate off, unless you've put her in a deck she obviously doesn't belong in, you have probably won the game. If she entered the battlefield at the same time as Tibalt, she'd easily kill tibalt. If Tibalt hit on turn 2 and she hit on turn 4, she'd still easily kill tibalt. She isn't even the *second* worst planeswalker, but Tibalt is by far and away the worst. It's not even arguable. His artwork rocks. I'll give him that. But there is no planeswalker out there that can even touch how bad Tibalt sucks.
There's been more than enough discussion here about how bad this guy currently is (and most likely will continue to be) as well as how to improve him. I like that he's two mana, and I wouldn't ever want to change that, but his abilities are simply too weak and too hard to activate. I don't know if he would be format defining or even a top-tier Standard card, but I think that if his first ability was "+1: Discard a card. If you do, draw a card." he would be good, at least playable. It fits R&D's position about red being able to loot so long as they discard first and can't generate card advantage, and it removes the awful drawback of random discard.
Tibalt is disappointing, but I would like to thank R&D for exercising some caution with him. I hate to think what things would have been like if his mana cost had been and his first ability had been something like Faithless Looting.
Jojabi
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
Yes, he's risky but he has potential. He's like Nissa in that he's only of much use in very specific decks. But some of those "decks" could be quite interesting. I'd be interested to see what he could do in a jund re-animator deck. There's also a lot of flashback in his block which adds relevance. I used to really hate this guy for obvious reasons but I'm starting to get what wizards was thinking.
Zetan
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
The worst planeswalker? Sure, I'll give you that. A bad card? Not by a long shot. He's only two mana! His +1 ability can be risky, but in most decks, it'll pay off; you're playing the cards that are most useful, so any card you draw is likely to be more useful than a random card in your hand. His ultimate will often win games, so your opponent has to deal with him. And when they attack him (or better still, use burn on him) it's delightful, because they just used those resources dealing with a 2-drop! Would I use him in a constructed deck? Probably not. Would I be happy if I pulled him in a draft/sealed? You bet I would.
DoragonShinzui
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Potent for his mana cost, lots of interesting abilities, outrageous potential with even basic strategies. Madness? Hellbent? Anti-control? Come on guys, lets get the gears turning.
Atali
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
He is bad for one major reason, it is frequently disadvantageous to use his +1, thus preventing you from using any of his abilities.
BloodDragon
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Does the Library of Leng not help this guy? Build you deck around flashback/maddness and the like ofcourse, but use the Library to prevent discarding key pieces. It then becomes a re-useblae shrine of burningShock, and the occasional threaten. A (non-instant) growing threat, that nets you graveyard and hand advantage.
MagicCritic
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Best planeswalker. 5/5 *sarcasm
Anyway, very good planeswalker. People just don't grasp his true terror. In flashback decks you could give a *** if you discard or not. You come in T2 with Tibalt, and in T4 you can do a nice 4-6 damage to target player. You should never take the risk to go for the ult, but if you do pull it off the game will be yours.
blurrymadness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I think I'll be using him in my draw-cards kederekt parasite style deck. He's a red permanent. They have lots of cards. I have things like Wheel of Fate which can also very quickly make his -4 very very powerful. He's also a distraction that requires burn/attacking; which is fine. Combined with cheap burn, and aggressive {B}{R} creatures and card advantage plays; I think it could work.
Consider him as a T3 play, possibly even T4; so you have the mana left to deal with Madness if you have it or so it lines up with Wheel of Fate and they only get a turn to respond (which if you've been burning and plopping aggressive creatures, they may not be able to.)
LordRandomness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The reason Tibalt looks bad is that he is narrow in a non-obvious way. Nissa Revane is narrow, but that doesn't matter because her abilities simply don't work in a non-Elf deck so no-one runs her there. It's a similar story with Koth of the Hammer and Liliana of the Dark Realms, who will invariably have decks built to take advantage of their focus on specific land types.
Tibalt here, on the other hand, just gets thrown into red decks that kinda sorta work with him and then dismissed as bad. Make no mistake, he is just as narrow as Nissa and needs to be put in a deck that's constructed to work with him and effects like him, but in such decks he is indispensable. (Not to mention that due to the mana curves of decks like that he really needs the {R}{R} cost)
werdwood93
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I use him in a casual burn deck and mostly I just think of him as a mini faithless looting every turn who makes my opponents waste resources
Veggeh
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Can't look at this art without thinking "Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?"
I keep that in mind when I build a deck with Tibalt in. Play to his strengths and he's pretty darn good.
the only thing better than him is about 5-6 different common and uncommon two drops available in every block.
The place he looks to be be best is burn - most of your spells do the same thing so the random discard shouldn't cause you too much pain.
But then instead of putting down a card which does practically nothing until turn 4, on which he can do 4 damage to a player and kill himself, or he can do nothing until turn 6, assuming your opponent hasn't dealt any damage to him in all of this time of him sitting around being useless, you COULD play young pyromancer and start getting in with a small army of 1/1s starting turn 3 which also helps your game against aggro, and can do things like help activate battalion.
Both cards go in the same decks. Even crazy hellbent/madness decks might like the pyromancer better. Then you start looking at other red two drops and you wonder "why did I care about tybalt?"
arise_shine
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
The planeswalker everyone loves to hate. This card is terrible, right? Unplayable, right?
So I brought him in against a Jund deck and he helped me win on turn 6 with his -4. Against Control, I got Appetite for Brains'd, and he was a little nervous that he wasn't able to take Tibalt. But this card's terrible! Why did it win me a game, and threaten another (I couldn't get to double red until like turn 8 to cast him .. by that time, my opponent had the Dissipate)?
Because maybe .. just maybe! .. it's not that bad. Is he good? Probably not. Is he the worst planeswalker printed? Probably. Is he the worst card ever printed? Is he useless? No way.
People talk about his +1 like it's guaranteed that you're going to be discarding all of your best cards. But isn't it equally likely that you'll also draw your best cards too? Plus, you can set this up so that you're more likely to discard worse cards .. hold onto that extra land, or that dead removal spell, or that mana dork.
And his -4? Against the right decks (control, and some midrange--at least in the first 5-6 turns), they'll usually have a bunch of cards in hand. If you're an aggro deck, that's like two Rift Bolts to the dome. Doesn't seem bad.
And his -6? Well of course it's very threatening. And if it's getting to a point where it could threaten lethal, then they'll have to use resources (e.g., cards) to get rid of him. In that case, isn't that value?
But then this begs the question ... Is this worth a card and two red mana? Would I run this over Ash Zealot? Honestly, if I was going to a serious tournament tomorrow, I probably wouldn't do it. There are plenty of two-drops in the format that have a bigger impact on the game than this guy. But at more laid-back store-level events, you simply cannot beat the "Lulz Factor" of making your opponent deal with Tibalt.
Zeritanos
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
1. Infinite mana combo with Myr's 2. Blue Sun's Zenith 3. Tibalt's -4 4. Delicious Tibalt hater tears
TexasDice
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.8/5.0)(2 votes)
After playing a lot of contructed with this dood, I must say he is not the worst Planeswalker. That title goes to Liliana of the Dark Realms. Seriously, she's so bad.
Alchemix
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
To be honest, I think he's pretty sweet. Yes, he sucks, but if you do it right, he's good. Firstly, he only belongs in a RDW kind of deck. Play out all your creatures and Tibalt will (hopefully) dig for nonlands for you. The main reason I like him, though, is because everyone else hates him. People dislike him so much that he'll just sit there, completely ignored by your opponent. They won't attack him, they won't burn him. And eventually, you'll get a 2-mana Insurrection.
I'm not trying to convince anyone that he's actually good, or that he's constructed playable, but I like him. Plus, that coat.
Goatllama
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It's HIM!! http://youtu.be/NfTD1NDNFIg Man, I really need to sneeze now.
Raexs
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I really want to find a realistic use for this guy. Every time I look at him in my binder, I see a sweet looking card that I want to play with. But, lo, there is no place for him in any of my decks, and it's difficult justifying building a deck just for him. I would say one of the upsides to him is that he can draw an attack or two away from you. But every time I've played with or against him, he's generally not activating every turn and nobody really is scared of him and just ignores him. However, a clever use I've seen for him is with Possibility Storm. Not so much for him, but moreso what you can get for his {R}{R} investment - basically getting a pretty darn good deal on any other planeswalker in your deck. Not a very dignified use, but a decent one.
Hunter06
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This guy was so hyped I thought for sure it was going to finally be a good red walker... and WotC gave us this O.o
any walker that makes Chandra Ablaze look good needs to be reconsidered
Lazrbeams
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The random discard is what hurts him the most, every other walker, regardless of what else is going on, using their plus ability is never an issue. With tibalt here, if you've got something you want in your hand, then you can't +1 safely. If it was draw a card, discard a card, I'd play it.
N03y3D33R
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Tibalt is probably one of the cheapest distractions red has. Killing a planeswalker is often harder than killing a creature is, and having even a repeatable Wild Guess type effect that can re-sort your hand is actually mildly helpful at times, especially if when ignored it can kill someone. Tibalt isn't supposed to be on the same level as the other planeswalkers, but getting him out earlier than any of them has it's benefits, particularly because it's early enough to dodge most counterspells and creatures that don't die to shock. And it makes his-4 more likely to do actual damage once it goes off. Toss him in with Howling Mine and have a blast drawing three cards for free every turn at the cost of one random discard.
AnnoyingFogGuy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I love the guy, but the one issue I have is that is second ability can't be used the turn he enters! Even if it killed him, it would have been nice.
TheCrimsonPXL
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is great. You all say he's the worst plains walker but thats so wrong. You say his first effect is bad but it is fantastic as it will cycle you through your library getting more cards in your hand. Even if you discard your best card just use a spell to bring them back. His final effect is endgame so the risk to lose a good card from your hand is worth it.
tastified
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Tibalt is UNPLAYABLE. If you play him early, you have little to nothing on board to defend him, and he may take a turn to use, but the absolute, number 2 reasons he is unplayable is as follows:
2 of his abilities are minus abilities that require you to use his plus one multiple times before using that one.
And, the fact that his only +1 ability, makes you discard at RANDOM. Meaning you can discard key cards, discard the card you drew anyway, and meaning that he does nothing to help you until he has survived WITHOUT TAKING A SCRATCH for 4 turns.
Yes, you can get lucky and discard your uneeded cards, but guess what? In mtg, where you verse multiple opponents over and over and need consistency, having luck in your deck is terrible. You won't ever see a pro player run a luck based card, unless either the card is good enough anyway or there is a high chance of good outcome.
And last but not least, the fact that a planeswalker you a meant to play early, is terrible early game as you will still have your prized cards in hand, and/or have no ways of defending him. By the time you have defence and your prized things out of your hand, you will have enough mana for a 4-5 planeswalker.
Comments (112)
It'll be interesting to come back to this card in a year or so and see what's happened.
Look at him. So pimp the smoke can't handle him and tries to escape from the card.
2 CMC has to count for something. I'd give him some time. Right now I wish his + ability added more loyalty counters.
+1: Where's my money?
-4: What a lovely hand you have there! Shame if anything happens to it.
-8: *PIMPSLAP* You work for me now. Smack that guy over there for me, would you?
OHMAHGAWDYES
Seriously though, he costs RR to cast! Of course the +1 cannot be obviously good. You have to make it good. So, maybe he won't be a tournament staple, but he is going to be fun and dynamic to play with.
As for that first ability...1) Red has lots of lovely flashback spells to use, so let's use them from the graves! 2) Grim Lavamancer likes crap in the grave, 3) Chandra's Phoenix, obviously, is good with him and 4) Other reanimation strategy. I want to use him in a janky W/B/R reanimation deck with Griselbrand and Unburial Rites.
He certainly got stuck on an awkward card though. I'd be seriously impressed if I see anybody actually pull off the second two abilities tomorrow. It seems Wizards got cold feet while they designed the first two-mana PW. Shame.
4/5 because he clearly doesn't even care :P
Not really, the random part of the discard ability makes him much harder to use than any current cards used for discarding.
is that supernatural reference i smell?
Also
This Planeswalker is by far my favorite so far
His back story is quite disappointing but he's a half devil half human which is cool
he is by far the classiest of the planeswalkers
and he is low costing which makes up for his mortality somewhat
unlike some of the others this guy's pretty balanced
kind of narrow but i dont care too much about that
other then that though I think he would be interesting to see in a duel deck
Tibalt vs Gideon!
1. He costs two mana, the fastest of all planeswalkers.
2. He's actually pretty balanced and in a good way.
3. He's half-devil for pete's sake, AND a mad scientist.
Also someone pointed out to me at the prerealease that his name comes from a character in Romeo and Juliet which is awesome.
The most important thing to remember about Tibalt is that unlike most other 'walkers, you don't want to be using him every turn. Leave him out, keep him protected with blockers and spot burn, and +1 when it'd be advantageous to do so. Keep him around long enough and you'll get tons of value out of him, especially if you line up his -4 after a Reforge the Soul or such, just don't expect him to do tons of flashy things every turn. His value is a lot more subtle than we're used to Planeswalkers being, especially in red.
1. I love it that there is a Planeswalker who actually can beat Mana Leak to the punch, assuming you go first.
2. This card makes me want to take another look at Slag Fiend and Kuldotha Phoenix, as I always wanted to build a deck around the two.
3. It is pretty obvious that wizards is trying to push red graveyard decks when you consider cards like this and Faithless Looting.
4. Turn 2: Mountain, then Tibalt, then use his +1.
Turn 3: Mountain, then Volt Charge, then use his -4
And then... did not play him, because the rest of my red was crap. :<
EDIT: Goes very well with Library of Leng. Draw a card, then maybe set up that miracle you drew in your opening hand as the next topdeck.
Overall, he require very subtle play and I'm not convinced he's worth the effort.
3/5
The fact that it is a 2-mana planeswalker does not automatically make it playable!
Tibalt comes into play very early, but he does hardly do anything for you to win the game. The +1-ability is too risky and the -4 costs too much loyalty counters and most often comes too late.
The -6-ability is actually the biggest reason to play him. At least in limited, it can be quite a threat.
Overall, I think Tibalt is the worst planeswalker ever printed (which doesn't say really much since there is no completely bad planeswalker) , but I still like the flavour (hellboy! :P) and he's definetely playable in limited. 3.5
2 mana cost to get new hand options? count me in... Leave him alone and get burned for you hand size. Leave him alone even longer and you lose the game.
Again, he's two mana to play. And as others have said, you don't HAVE to use his +1 on turns that you don't want to lose a random card in your hand. Simple as that, people just don't get it.
All in all, he does his job perfectly. He's a huge distraction for people, giving yet another difficult choice to your opponent. Do i leave him alone and feel the wrath from his -4/-6 later? Or do i focus him down and fail to target their creatures? Should i use an instant or sorcery on this planeswalker instead of a creature/player? WHAT TO DO?!!
Bottom line: If he gets his -6 off you win or if your deck does its original job, you win. and by the way, he costs just two mana. (O_0)
- He can make bad starting hands playable where you would otherwise mulligan. A hand with, say, 6 lands + tibalt might actually be keepable, as there's a good chance when you +1, you will pitch one of the lands. Or 2 lands + tibalt + 4 high cmc cards. He can help you dig for your land drops, but of course the few times you do pitch the cards you want does suck.
- He has decent synergy with flashback cards, or just decks that don't mind having things in graveyards (say, UR pyromancer for modern).
Tibalt is a niche card, which is perfectly fine as I don't enjoy having rares/mythics become staple cards (loljace, lolsnapcaster). he WILL eventually find a home, but it will be a narrow home, and he will not be expensive because of it.
he was looking for a Soul to Steal,
He was in a Bind, cuz he was way behind,
'an he was willing to make a Deal,
When he saw this young wolf grinding a Pro Tour and playing it hot,
then The Devil jumped up on a hickory stump and said say "boy let me tell ya wot"
Now I guess you didn't know it but I'm a MAGIC player too,
And if you care to take a Dare, I'll make a bet with you!
Now you play a pretty good Dredge deck son, but give the Devil his due,
I bet a Lotus of Gold against your Soul cuz I think I'm better than you!
And the young man said 'Now my name's Johnny, and it might be a sin,
But I'll TAKE your bet your gonna regret cuz I'm the best that's ever been!
Johnny you shuffle up your deck and get your game on hard,
'Cos Hell's broke loose at the Pro Tour and the Devil deals the cards!
And if you win you get these shiny Petals made of Gold--
But if you lose, the Devil gets your Sol! (Ring)
The Devil opened up his case and he said: "I'll start this show."
And fire flew from his fingertips as he randomized those sleeves.
And he drew his cards into his hands and it made an evil hiss.
Then Hordes of Demons joined in and it sounded something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txo06c1k9sk
When the Devil finished, Johnny said: "Well you're pretty good ol' son.
"But sit down in that chair, right there, and let me show you how its done!"
He played:
Mox Jet and Mountain, run boys run!
Dark Ritual and Rite of Flame one drop fun!
Titans in the grave (bin), pitched from Entombs!
Got a Force of Will?
No? I play EXHUMEs!
The Devil bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat.
He laid that Gilded Lotus on the ground at Johnny's feet.
Johnny said: "Devil just come on back if you ever want to try again.
"Cause I told you once, you son of a gun, I'm the best there's ever been."
He played:
Fire in the Flames, sons Burn Dead Wins!
STAR WARS in the house, it's a Sith Lord's din!
Dragonforce Battle, rocking like sin!
Ani can you Rock Band?
Chosen One's End!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sungykijn7E
+1: This is the ability people look at to judge all planeswalkers. With tibalt's, what people look at is that it is random. That you can't drop any particular card you want to throw away. So, we start to look at the random and discard it as crap because it "doesnt do anything"
With Tibalt's +1, you are guaranteed what?
1) You are guaranteed to draw 1 card.
2) You are guaranteed to discard 1 card.
3) You are guaranteed to get 1 more loyalty than before.
4) You are guaranteed one more card in your graveyard.
This is important, because these guarantees are what made him "random" and not "discard a card". These are powerful guarantees.
And with that 3rd point, we get into his other abilities.
-4: If you lay out tibalt turn 2, his ability to deal massive damage to your opponent is enough to make him a threat. 2 mana, X damage that can't be countered is a really mean idea. X damage is more powerful with control and tempo decks than it is with aggro, and even early game aggro type decks will sometimes not lose all of their cards early on. Not everything is RDW.
-6: Creatures gain haste and your opponents blockers become your offensive assets. This ability, in a creature heavy metagame, is very scary. Your opponent lays out a fatty and suddenly it is a bad thing because you have tibalts -6 on your side.
part of tibalts power is that people forget that he has 2 other abilities. And when they do remember, understand he is 2 mana spent for opponents to "waist" a O ring or creature attacks on him. He is worth his mana.
RW with black spashed also has a nice job of using hism with faithless looting, him, and reforge to get creature in the grave for defy death and unburial rights. Yes, he is actually quite usable in frites builds of mostly red early game looting. And most frites builds right now use faithless looting early game to trash stuff (though the combo of spellbomb and surgical bother being in standard right now stops it from being used often, but comes up often enough to cause people to put either of thses in their sideboard... and i hope someone doesnt say grafdiffers cage works to, because often it doesnt. you would have to ingnore the fact your decks like using the graveyard to, to run grafdiggers cage effectively)
@Henrietta: you are correct on almost all accounts.
There are still planeswalkers, and quite a few of them, worth 1/5 of his value in terms of money. Also, you can't talk much of his standard tournament play when there have been no major tournaments for standard since his release thus far. Block is a very BAD place to look at his playablility, because when you look at block, you see silverheart and geist. What red deck won? What deck ran red, actually, outside of just splashing it in for pillar of flame to deal with strangleroot. I can't think of, well, any. You do have a good point on his -6, but as I said above... creatures are attacking hima nd not you. That can be considered quite good. And his "coin flip" as you say, is far greater than 50% chance in your favor unless you have 1 card in your hand at the time.. and if you had 1 card in your hand at the time, that "choose" wouldnt have helped you any more than randomly discarding.
@atemu1234: See Henrietta's post and add, "because 2 mana isnt the value of the card. 2 mana is great, but is 2 mana worth what you are getting. The fact that it is a planeswalker means nothing towards its playablility. It is very specific in what it can do, and that currently doesnt fit into any deck build commonly seen at the top of tournaments. "
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I would not be shocked if there was a top 8 build or such that uses him, and then everyone who hated him will say "i knew he had potential all along" like everyone does. I knew cavern of souls wouldnt be a 4 of in all decks, but would be played in 1 or 2. You can see my post on it on Magic Spoilers and the date stamp if you wish. I knew that there were flaws in it, and I was called a noob for it. It's funny how wrong those people where. My point is, if someone else has to see the value in a card and win with it before you see it yourself, then you will never be winning any actual tournaments any time soon.
People aren't too thrilled about the random discard but considering the typical red deck is about 30% burn and around 20% creatures, it takes out a portion of the random-ness. You're probably going to get rid of a card that is effectively in multiples anyway and draw is draw.
A final thought on him is that I like him because he can fuel a second miracle in a turn... a super miracle if you will. 2 thunderous wraths? Reforge and Bonfire? I could easily see it happening and that's absolutely priceless.
3 player game. During lunch at my high school, after English class. I'm running UR Delver against a Tempered Steel and a Humans deck, and I'm massively manaflooded. Finally, I resolve this guy. Some cards, finally. Next turn, I'm blown out following an O-Ring and a swing for 14. I stand up, pick up Tibalt, and start shouting "A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES!" I was given an honorary win.
I wished the R&D took a risk in printing him with"+1: discard a card, then draw a card."
his -4 ability is cool but conditional. good for those greedy hands.
his -6 ability is also conditional. you'll activate it only if you're opponent has creatures worth stealing to attack with or you'll just continue looting with him.
his minus abilities are so dependent on your opponent.
I am very glad they named him Tibalt...and his art is supreme along with his back story.
I don't know, but apparently there's going to be a DUEL DECK to decide that.
4.5/5 because discarding a card at random is very hard to take, even for a mindless agro deck.
Worst case scenario you spent 2 mana.
If he's got 4 counters and I use his second ability, will the damage still be caused, or will it be countered since he is no longer on the board?
also the art is pretty neat.
As it is now, yes he is 2CMC, but he is heavy red coloured, and red usually wants something more tempo than this.
But I don't blame Wizards, when you make your first 2CMC walker, you really want to be careful not to make it too strong. Maybe they should just not make planeswalkers at 2CMC, it's very hard to make them balanced but useful.
He doesn't really have a place in standard at this time (gatecrash might change that), and in modern you would usually much rather run shrine of burning rage or kargan dragonlord, or pretty much any of the good red 2 drops instead of this guy. He really has no home, he is too slow for aggro, too random for control, too dependable on building the deck around him, and not offering enough reward for it.
Red really gets the worst planeswalkers, the only good walker we've seen in red is Koth imo.
He's a Tiefling Invoker...
1) They activate every turn, for free, and give you several options.
2) Getting rid of them requires your opponent to use resources that would have been directed at you. Even if they don't live very long, they usually buy you an extra turn.
3) If not dealt with in a timely manner, they have an ultimate ability that will most often win you the game.
Tibalt doesn't look that powerful, but all three of these things are true about him. And he costs two mana.
There's no way this is a bad card.
Does anyone else think something can be done with him? Perhaps a Straight Forward Burn deck maybe? I see him becoming something An I am not going to give up on him yet.
I find him fun but maddening, which I guess is how you're supposed to feel. I tried making a mono-red-for-discard Tibalt dredge deck just for the 'hell' of it -- Tibalt, Devastating Dreams, Gamble and Faithless Looting. Hitting
And really, Tibalt... wasn't terrible. Getting to dredge twice a turn every turn is nice. The problem I ran into was, Tibalt's other abilities are pointless in Dredge. 2-3 damage? Pass. If I get to his -6, it's because the other player didn't have a whole lot of creatures.
On one hand, planeswalkers are supposed to be really good i.e game-winning good. They are supposed to largely affect the field when you play them.
On the other hand, two mana cards aren't supposed to win you the game. They are there for establishing tempo, and are usually some utility card/creature or an aggro. Control spells also fall into this slot.
Seems like wizards played it safe and went with making him a good 2cmc card rather than a good planeswalker.
Not trying to kick him down any further than he already is, just saying that he's not what people expect in a planeswalker, because if he was red deck aggro would have broken every format
2{R}{R}
Tibalt, The Fiend-Blooded
+1:Draw two cards, then discard two cards.
-3: Take control of target creature until end of turn. It gains haste.
-7: Take control of all non-land permanents target player controls. All creatures gain haste. At the end of the turn, destroy all stolen creatures.
{3}
I'll also be interested to see if the price drops even lower when the duel decks come out...
There's been more than enough discussion here about how bad this guy currently is (and most likely will continue to be) as well as how to improve him. I like that he's two mana, and I wouldn't ever want to change that, but his abilities are simply too weak and too hard to activate. I don't know if he would be format defining or even a top-tier Standard card, but I think that if his first ability was "+1: Discard a card. If you do, draw a card." he would be good, at least playable. It fits R&D's position about red being able to loot so long as they discard first and can't generate card advantage, and it removes the awful drawback of random discard.
Tibalt is disappointing, but I would like to thank R&D for exercising some caution with him. I hate to think what things would have been like if his mana cost had been
Build you deck around flashback/maddness and the like ofcourse, but use the Library to prevent discarding key pieces. It then becomes a re-useblae shrine of burningShock, and the occasional threaten. A (non-instant) growing threat, that nets you graveyard and hand advantage.
*sarcasm
Anyway, very good planeswalker. People just don't grasp his true terror. In flashback decks you could give a *** if you discard or not. You come in T2 with Tibalt, and in T4 you can do a nice 4-6 damage to target player. You should never take the risk to go for the ult, but if you do pull it off the game will be yours.
Fiery Temper and Firebolt are good examples of burn that works well with him.
Consider him as a T3 play, possibly even T4; so you have the mana left to deal with Madness if you have it or so it lines up with Wheel of Fate and they only get a turn to respond (which if you've been burning and plopping aggressive creatures, they may not be able to.)
Tibalt here, on the other hand, just gets thrown into red decks that kinda sorta work with him and then dismissed as bad. Make no mistake, he is just as narrow as Nissa and needs to be put in a deck that's constructed to work with him and effects like him, but in such decks he is indispensable. (Not to mention that due to the mana curves of decks like that he really needs the {R}{R} cost)
I keep that in mind when I build a deck with Tibalt in. Play to his strengths and he's pretty darn good.
The place he looks to be be best is burn - most of your spells do the same thing so the random discard shouldn't cause you too much pain.
But then instead of putting down a card which does practically nothing until turn 4, on which he can do 4 damage to a player and kill himself, or he can do nothing until turn 6, assuming your opponent hasn't dealt any damage to him in all of this time of him sitting around being useless, you COULD play young pyromancer and start getting in with a small army of 1/1s starting turn 3 which also helps your game against aggro, and can do things like help activate battalion.
Both cards go in the same decks. Even crazy hellbent/madness decks might like the pyromancer better. Then you start looking at other red two drops and you wonder "why did I care about tybalt?"
So I brought him in against a Jund deck and he helped me win on turn 6 with his -4. Against Control, I got Appetite for Brains'd, and he was a little nervous that he wasn't able to take Tibalt. But this card's terrible! Why did it win me a game, and threaten another (I couldn't get to double red until like turn 8 to cast him .. by that time, my opponent had the Dissipate)?
Because maybe .. just maybe! .. it's not that bad. Is he good? Probably not. Is he the worst planeswalker printed? Probably. Is he the worst card ever printed? Is he useless? No way.
People talk about his +1 like it's guaranteed that you're going to be discarding all of your best cards. But isn't it equally likely that you'll also draw your best cards too? Plus, you can set this up so that you're more likely to discard worse cards .. hold onto that extra land, or that dead removal spell, or that mana dork.
And his -4? Against the right decks (control, and some midrange--at least in the first 5-6 turns), they'll usually have a bunch of cards in hand. If you're an aggro deck, that's like two Rift Bolts to the dome. Doesn't seem bad.
And his -6? Well of course it's very threatening. And if it's getting to a point where it could threaten lethal, then they'll have to use resources (e.g., cards) to get rid of him. In that case, isn't that value?
But then this begs the question ... Is this worth a card and two red mana? Would I run this over Ash Zealot? Honestly, if I was going to a serious tournament tomorrow, I probably wouldn't do it. There are plenty of two-drops in the format that have a bigger impact on the game than this guy. But at more laid-back store-level events, you simply cannot beat the "Lulz Factor" of making your opponent deal with Tibalt.
2. Blue Sun's Zenith
3. Tibalt's -4
4. Delicious Tibalt hater tears
I'm not trying to convince anyone that he's actually good, or that he's constructed playable, but I like him. Plus, that coat.
http://youtu.be/NfTD1NDNFIg
Man, I really need to sneeze now.
I would say one of the upsides to him is that he can draw an attack or two away from you. But every time I've played with or against him, he's generally not activating every turn and nobody really is scared of him and just ignores him.
However, a clever use I've seen for him is with Possibility Storm. Not so much for him, but moreso what you can get for his {R}{R} investment - basically getting a pretty darn good deal on any other planeswalker in your deck. Not a very dignified use, but a decent one.
any walker that makes Chandra Ablaze look good needs to be reconsidered
Even if it killed him, it would have been nice.
2 of his abilities are minus abilities that require you to use his plus one multiple times before using that one.
And, the fact that his only +1 ability, makes you discard at RANDOM. Meaning you can discard key cards, discard the card you drew anyway, and meaning that he does nothing to help you until he has survived WITHOUT TAKING A SCRATCH for 4 turns.
Yes, you can get lucky and discard your uneeded cards, but guess what? In mtg, where you verse multiple opponents over and over and need consistency, having luck in your deck is terrible. You won't ever see a pro player run a luck based card, unless either the card is good enough anyway or there is a high chance of good outcome.
And last but not least, the fact that a planeswalker you a meant to play early, is terrible early game as you will still have your prized cards in hand, and/or have no ways of defending him. By the time you have defence and your prized things out of your hand, you will have enough mana for a 4-5 planeswalker.
Pointless.