Pointed Discussion

Ajani says: F*CK YEAH!

Wow the alternate planeswalker art for him and Bolas are fantastic.

And it's nice to see Ajani Vengeant get another printing, and some respect. I've always been partial to him and his roguish enemy-color ways. Hopefully with Innistrad's enemy-color dual lands and Kiora Atua and Ral Zarek out there (plus possibly Innistrad's Garruk), we'll see more 'walkers like him soon.

(Edit)
And within literally minutes of posting that, Garruk Relentless gets spoilered. Although he's not really enemy colored if you're talking casting cost, his flipped form is G/B.

I like how Ajani's and Bolas' cards' art face each other. Like they're having a rap battle.

@DeathParrallax: Urza's dead. Plus his card would be
"+1: Win the game.
-1:Destroy target continent.
-X: Commit X unspeakable acts of evil in the name of destroying Phyrexia."

I'm relatively new to Magic and I have a question. If my friend plays Ajani Vengeant's ability to destroy all my lands and if I have Privileged Position out, would my Privileged Position's ability protect my lands?

This guy over Nicol Bolas any day. U can get Ajani out on turn 3 or 4 and Nicol on 7 or 8. By then the other guy's lands r destroyed and u can't cast Nicol.

@Kim Yes, it would be destroyed...hexproof doesn't matter, the lands aren't being targeted, it's a field effect. However, Terra Eternal would protect those lands, if they're indestructible, then destroying them won't work.

Crowning moment of a 5 match Duel Deck off with me and a bud? Swinging into a helpless Ajani Vengeat who was at 7 counters with Jhessian Zombies.
There was nothing he could do. My lands remained intact. And that's why its so tempting not to landcycle the bastards.

@kimjong7hrill: Priviledged Position won't save your lands from this card. Ajani's ultimate doesn't target any lands, and Priviledged Position doesn't stop you from being targeted, so Ajani will destroy your lands.

-7: Win target game.

Balefire liege turns into planeswalker liege gets a better rarity and a nerf. Fantastic.

Kinda weird how blue his first ability is.

The only planeswalker in the history of the multiverse to ever really WIN a duel with Nicol Bolas. Gotta respect that. (anyone citing preMending history: that's like PreCrisis DCU trivia. A- most of it isn't true anymore, and B- it happened so long ago nobody remembers how it really happened and C- if they don't have a card, and their name's not Urza, I don't really care. Urza needs a card. The rest can be lost to time for all I care.)

Neokoda, that's a terrible design, really. "+1 to win the game"? utterly obsoletes the rest of the card. That could be a fun MINUS ability though. Urza is not dead. His spark/spirit lives on in Karn the Liberated, as you can see in Distant Memories.


Here, let me show you how to design a Stupidly Powerful Planeswalker that manages to remain interesting: (The Creative idea is that this is what Bolas would look like if he regained his PreMending strength somehow.)

Nicol Bolas, Stupidly Powerful Planeswalker * (CMC 25)
(with a clear, Eldrazi frame, and artwork that has a dark background. try it out in MSE, it looks EPIC)
Planeswalker- Bolas
Nicol Bolas, Stupidly Powerful Planeswalker costs less to cast
for each land you control that could produce more than one color of mana.

+4: Destroy target land. That land's controller adds three mana in any combination of colors
to his or her mana pool.

-10: Exile Nicol Bolas, then take two extra turns after this one. At the beginning of the end step
of the second extra turn, return Nicol Bolas to the battlefield under your control.

-20: Your opponents lose the game.

Starting Loyalty: 8

And THAT'S how you make a Stupidly Poweful Planeswalker that is worded just so-
so that it is almost scary possible it could see print.

To those who are saying that Ajani beats Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker any day:
1: Planeswalkers, on average, don't activate their ultimates. Comparing planeswalkers by comparing ultimates is a bad way to compare them. Jace the Mind Sculptor isn't amazing because his ultimate wins you the game. He's amazing because of all the advantage he generates while he's out. I'll take destroying permanents over keeping them tapped down any day.
2: Nicol gets his ultimate on his third turn out. Ajani gets his on his fifth.
3: Nicol's first ability outright gets rid of Ajani AND adds loyalty.
Ajani is land removal a long time from now. Nicol is anything but creature removal NOW.
Nicol>Ajani

I love love love planeswalkers that defend themselves. He has two abilities that can immediately protect himself from a threat, and an achievable ultimate that will really wreck your opponent's day. And after a Wrath effect, you can hold important land down.
My only dissatisfaction with this guy is in multiplayer. He is so focused at hosing a single player, that he seems lackluster in a game of 6 people.
Best moment: top-decking him when an opponent stabilized and gained control of the battlefield at 2 life.

@Gman92:

If we are going to compare planeswalkers side by side and say that the 8 mana 3 color with a 2 black color weight planeswalker has better abilities overall and pretend the mana cost means nothing, then yes, Nico Bolas is by far the best planeswalker (which makes sense because he is the most feared, most powerful, and oldest of the planeswalkers in the fluff)

In terms of which is more likely to come out sooner and effect the game early enough to matter, ajani is better.

In terms of overall loyalty maintaining abilities and flexibility with the ability to kill things with no issues and give you total card advantage, Nico Bolas wins out.

I agree with point 1.

Point 2 contradicts directly with point one. Additionally, it takes 4 turns to get ajani out, and assuming you can consistently get mana, 8 turns for Bolas. Assuming no ramps for the reason neither walker has green and so ramping mana is few and fleeting (though Bolas's color allows for control, meaning lots of land and blue/ black allows for drawing where red/white does not often)

Point 3 assumes they are VS each other (which i can accept because that's what your post alludes to). However, Ajani's +1 is very flexable aside from land control, though land control is admittedly what it will be doing. Bolas does win out with his being a +3 rather than a +1

Fluffwise Bolas > ajani

Gamewise, they both have benefits to the game that match their color perfectly. Bolas is made for control (+ non creature removal{red}, - mind control{blue}, ultimate Pox equivalent{Black}) Ajani is made for aggro (+1 slow down the opponent, law and order {white}, -2 Lightning Helix, ultimate Armageddon combine with targeting the opponent. As both red and white do.

RunedServitor puts my only feelings pretty clear. I've never played him in 1-1 standard, and I hear he shines there, but as a card as a whole, he seems pretty crappy. His first ability is, well, okay, although extremely out-of-color, and easy to work around - you're not really slowing them down by a turn, when it took you one to play him; you break even. His -2 ability just costs too much loyalty, compared to Sorin's +2 which does the same thing, with only one point less on both sides. His Ultimate does basically say "Target player loses", but it kinda seems like a cheesy cop-out, and pretty out-of-flavor too - white only gets equal-opportunity land destruction, and the same is true of red, although it gets targeted land destruction as well. I really don't get where they got that ability from, or how it's supposed to make sense.

I just realized that every single planeswalker from Alara had been reprinted

Every? Good joke. I need to tell it to my buddy, Sarkhan Vol.

This card was in every tournament deck for a while.

Example:

Senario 1:
Ajani Player:"I draw....wait for it....AJANI!!!"
Bolas Player:"MWAHAHAHA +3 goodbye Ajani"
Ajani Player:"but...but...but...*sobs*"

Senario 2:
Ajani Player:"I draw...Ajani!!"
Bolas Player:"NOOOO"
FOUR TURNS LATER
Ajani Player:"-7 mwahahaha"
Bolas Player:"I...I...*pulls out hand and stares*...I...i...quit"

Loving how his -2 is Lightning Helix. Also that is one monstrous ultimate.

Note: for those "TL;DR" people, just read the bottom lines.

In all truth, I don't really like this Ajani as much as almost all of the other planeswalkers. He doesn't have the same memorability as others, because I can't see many people using him in large games like EDH or Two-Headed Giant.

His +1 is deceiving, because "Target thing doesn't become untapped until who-knows-when" are usually at instant speed. You have to make sure that when you use this, you're either using it on a tapped permanent, or just to get to the one-sided Armageddon/more Lightning Helix's.

Although Lightning Helix is a great spell, It doesn't have the weight and magnitude as some others. I'd rather compare his middle negative ability to other similarly-costed 'walkers. Here's some that are technically better:

Koth of the Hammer: Add = your mountains. Turn 4, that gives you back the investment while keeping Koth alive. Late game, you ramp like Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary.

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas: You could turn a Mox Opal into a 5/5. Do also remember that non-creature artifacts don't have summoning sickness, so Agent can surprise-buttsecks someone if you'd like.

Chandra, the Firebrand: Reverberate, except not a tricky. Since this is situational, Helix may sometimes be better. However, having a permanent Reverberate without paying mana when you're going to cast it is really, REALLY good.

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad: Puts an indestructible, untargetable Orcish Oriflamme. And you can put as many as you want on the field. Uhhh... next planeswalker???

Sarkhan Vol: Act of Treason. It's a situational spell, so I can say Helix is better, but Vol's +1 is REALLY good, and near-completely overshadows the -2.

Ajani Goldmane: Give all your creatures +1/+1 counters AND vigilance? Uhh... Sorry Serra Avatar ability...


So, to summarize, I do think Vengeant is good, just not big-game good.

And that's why I don't like him.

Perfect abilities for the cost. I'm a big fan of Tamiyo's +1 ability and occasionally its useful to tap your opponent's dual land so they're stuck waiting while you get your side of the board wrapped up. His ultimate pretty much guarantees a rage-quit every time, whether it's early or late game.

@Ferlord: I disagree on several counts.
1) Non-creature artifacts DO have summoning sickness if they are made creatures. If the artifact has not been in play for at least a turn, you can't make it a creature and attack with it.
2) I think you're underestimating the power of a free Lightning Helix every turn. There's a reason Lightning Bolt is one of the highest-rated and most feared spells in magic. Sure a sorcery-speed lightning bolt is a lot weaker but in Boros aggro decks, that 3 damage will go a long way. Plus the free 3 life (although not particularly useful in an aggro deck) could be useful for staying alive.
3) The ultimate ends any single-player game. If you proliferate that ultimate, that alone is a win condition. I often use Tezzeret's Gambit and other proliferates alongside it. It's pretty much the most powerful ultimate.
4) The +1 ability while situational could stop your opponents attacking Ajani long enough for Ajani to ultimate. Plus if you have no other targets, you could use it on lands which could really slow your opponent down.
Ajani could be a great replacement for used alongisde the new Firemane Angel. You have to take into consideration what kind of decks will be running this card before you judge it.

Ajani is a very powerful planeswalker. While not the best by far, he's a great asset for any Boros deck, aggro or control. I'd give him a 4/5.

Can he actually tap the target permanent with his ability?

@Winhert
Nope. He just makes it not untap.

This guy is strong because you can mana screw you opponent or keep their strongest creature at bay. If they have a problem utility creature or even planeswalker, you can shoot it with his -2.

A balanced, but good planeswalker.
5/5

@Cloudeye: And now Sarkhan Vol is in Modern Masters.

"KKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNNN!

His abilitys lend themselves to Ral Zarek.

+1: Tap something

-2: 3 Damage

-7: This is where they are different, because Ajani destroys them, while Ral's two extra turns let you destroy them.

They both have the same price, except for their color's.

I like the original art from shards of Alara over the duel deck version.

@TherealphatMatt

I have actually won games where his -7 resolved against me.

That being said; it was really, REALLY hard to do it.

I will argue that Vengeant is one of the top five planeswalkers, (In terms of power) and that he is potent not just in single player, but multiplayer as well. Forcompetative constructed formats, it is hard to justify high costing spells unless you can cheat them out (Not overly easy for walkers, and you would rather spend most cards that can do it on a combo piece or game ender.) Ajani costs , which is playable. Sure, he has to compete with Jace, the format-sculptor at , and he clearly loses that comparison, but that doesn't mean he is useless. Especially in modern, where Jace is banned.

Any good planeswalker also needs a plus/neutral ability that can effect the board or protect itself. Vengeant has that, and its an ability that gets more potent the better the cards people are playing with. If locking down someone's island or Thragtusk is good, locking down a key part of a competitive deck like a Tolarian Academy, Tarmogoyf or Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (If they play it before another combo piece) is devastating. In Multiplayer, locking down a major threat or an EDH general against the top player on the board will win political points, stall a game and direct attention away from you.

The secondary ability is even better in Competitive environments. Utility dorks like Dark Confidant, Deathrite Shaman or Lord of Atlantis all die to the bolt and net you 3 life. When the chips are down, Ajani can act like a lightning Helix, and that removal and utility is amazing. Easily one of the top -2s in the game, and its on a costing 'walker. In multiplayer its a bit less impressive, since higher casting creatures rule these formats and tend to have at least 4 toughness.

The ultimate is very ultimate. Ultimates rarely get off in any format, but they have to appear as a threat to be dealt with to keep pressure on your opponents. A one sided Armageddon is that kind of threat. If it goes off, the player it targets is liable to lose in short order. It takes a very commanding board position to survive a hit like that. In multiplayer, it calls the vultures in. Play it and watch as players flock to cremate the man with no response spells.

In single player Ajani Vengeant helps control the board and presents an alt-wincon. In Multiplayer, he stalls and plays politics. A solid choice in a wide variety of decks running Boros colors, and especially at home in control.

It's interesting to note that this is the only planeswalker from the Lorwyn 5 that ever became multicolored.

@NeoKoda you know that urza is basically the hitler of the multiverse

Eh. White/red need a new planeswalker.

Lightning helix is totally the right direction, but given that boros is all about battalion...how about we say aurelia becomes a plainswalker. Hell, idk, chandra joins boros. Just something that would summon a 3/1 token with haste for +1.

Something that puts creatures on the field, gains life, and burns. Essential red/white. Ajani only has one effect for that, it's a minus two and his other effects are that of mono red or blue.