Pointed Discussion

Wow, no comments yet? Sorin 2.0 is definitely really good. His first ability=awesome, his emblem is really underrated, and his last...damn! I think he is really solid, and expect a resurgence of W/B tokens (maybe with a splash of Green or Blue for Gavony Township or Moorland Haunt). But very nice to see an enemy color planeswalker, and a non-broken one, too!

5/5

Pretty good, but not as good as most people make him out to be. 4/5

He will also cost way more than he should since DKA is such a crappy set in terms of value.

Combos with creatures.

Combos with himself

We'll see how good he is but my gut instinct is that he's worse than Elspeth.

I dont know how things will turn out, but I predict that Sorin has a pretty good chance of making it into aggro/control decks. He comes out mid-game and starts pumping out tokens to defend himself with and attack, and then he can power up your creatures or reset part of their board depending on their condition (take their annoying titan, steal their Liliana and make them sac half their board etc.) - 1/26/12

HOLY COW!! Bow to the Lord of Innistrad!

Homeless planeswalker severely overrated

Alucard? Shouldn't you be figuring out what happened to Richter?

Sorin is angry, and wants his Innistrad back!

I don't quite like his last ability though, it takes quite some time to charge up and its in the colours of permanent and creature removal. The Emblem is more cost effective as well

Still 5/5. Welcome home, Sorin!

Well, hello there, ridiculously expensive money Mythic! :D

60$ in pre-sales right now. Will go down, but might have staying power unlike, say, Karn.

I love seeing love for Orzhov.

"Hey vampires I know your hungry and all but I got to make these spririt tokens +1/0 for a while until we even you out. Nothing personal, I'll party with you again after but for now you got to pay for feasting to much. You've been served" Sorin

Freaking AWESOME CARD!!!!

I do so love Planeswalkers that can defend themselves.

People call him homeless. To that I say he builds his own home. And unlike other cards, odds are his house will be a sturdy one.

Wow, I really actually like this, and I'm usually really skeptical about new planeswalkers (I still say Gideon wasn't that great beyond his middle ability). Much like Old Ajani, I gotta say most of power looks like it's in his middle ability - that emblem is NUTS.

"He wants his babyback babyback babyback babyback babyback babyback babyback babyback babyback..."

"When does he say angel?"

"Never. He never says angel."

Sure, he's great in the WB Tokens deck that's obviously being forced through in DKA with the existence of this, Intangible Virtue, Midnight Haunting, Elspeth Tirel, Lingering Souls, Vault of the Archangel, et al. The problem, as I see it, is that as a token generator there are better cards, and as a token buffer, there are better cards. Sure, he's another one you can run alongside them, and the fact that his second ability is an emblem is nice. But is that enough to justify all the massive helpings of love that have been piled on him and support a $50 price tag? Unlikely.

However, there are two things that make me want to keep an eye on him. First is the word "vampire" in his first ability. That means he gets First Strike and +1/+1 from Stromkirk Captain and other tribal goodies, and the addition of lifelink on top of that could tip the card. Second is that ultimate. Usually I don't consider ultimates in terms of making cards good or bad, but when taken together, the facts that 1) he comes down turn 4, 2) he charges up to his ultimate within 3 turns, and 3) he protects himself while building up make him actually going off more likely than most walkers. Say Koth of the Hammer, who can't protect himself as he goes up, or Elspeth Tirel who can only do one or the other.

Still, incredibly limited in terms of the decks he can go into, both by archtype and by color. Maybe that's better than having the old standbys like Garruk Wildspeaker and Jace Beleren who could be plopped into a variety of decks, but the narrow focus is a little disappointing to me. Either way, nice to see an aggro-ish planeswalker out there.

I don't want him to be as good as he is, but every time I read this card I'm just astonished. It's good. It's damn good. At 4 mana, how can this be anything but good.

Only the second planeswalker to create emblems that stack, after Venser, the Sojourner. On the power of this card and various other useful spells, black/white tokens should be a powerful force in the upcoming Standard season.

Probably one of the first people to open one of these, and only 1 of two at the local store.
Really powerful, although I haven't tried him out yet.
He seems to combo with the Chalice of Life.

@RAV0004

Is that a Scrubs reference?

Note that if you kill a Planeswalker and bring it back, it's considered a new permanent, and thus can use its loyalty abilities again.

What I'm wondering, though, is what Sorin is doing with in his cost?

Amazing! though i thought the art could be improved..

@myrbattlecube

It is a novel idea to kill off your own planeswalkers to get one more loyalty ability, that does work, but yeah he's just overexcited past logic.

You could cast your PW, use a -X ability, kill it with Sorin, and it will reanimate as an entirely new permanent with no memory of its previous existence to use a +X ability.

@darthparallax

Myrbattlecube is right in every way. To begin with, Experiment Kraj will gain the abilities of these Artifact Creature Planeswalkers, but he has no loyalty counters or means to get them (all PWs abilities read "remove X loyalty counters: do this"). You could use Fate Transfer to give Kraj loyalty, but even then he is limited to one loyalty ability per turn.

As Myrbattlecube stated; untapping Kraj with Tezzeret will do nothing. Kraj would not be tapping to activate loyalty abilities.

You also cannot activate Ultimates as many times as you think. A Planeswalker with 0 loyalty goes to the graveyard as a state-based effect. Stealing someones Liliana, otV and using her Ulty will put her at 0 loyalty and in the graveyard. Long before you could kill, and reanimate her with Sorin/ Kraj again.

Chuck Norris called.....He wants his planeswalker back.

his first ability coupled with bloodline keeper makes me want to revive my love for malakir bloodwitch and sanguine bond. as long as no ones running maelstrom pulse and echoing truth you could devastate opponents quickly.

The card I like to combo better with than doubling season is Gilder Bairn. Cheaper card to get a hold of (like a tenth of the cost) and basically does the same thing as far as Sorin is concerned, however doubling season leaves it with one loyalty counter as Sorin kills himself while the Bairn keeps two. Six of one half dozen...Sorins make me happy.

Wizards employee 1: "Hey, man, remember when there was a $50+ planeswalker in Standard?"

Wizards employee 2: "Yeah, that was awesome. Every tournament deck ran four Jace, and you couldn't find a playset under $180 to save your life."

Wizards employee 1: "Yeah, $200 to even get a foot in the door and *try* to compete in a tournament. Those were the days, huh?"

Wizards employee 2: "Yeah. That was dope. Y'know, I really wish Standard could be like that again, but R&D seems pretty apologetic about Jace, so they'll probably play it safe from here on out..."

Wizards employee 1: "Wait, wait, didn't R&D leave *us* in charge of designing the iconic planeswalker for this new block?"

Wizards employees 1 and 2: ... *simultaneous evil grin*

And so another $60 legend was born.

For people complaining about the price: wait. Liliana cost the same, she's below $30, so CALM THE EF DOWN!

I really like this new Sorin, but I think his "fair" cost would have been 5CMC, they costed him so aggressively so that he would see play.

My only gripe with this card is the fact that they didn't use the other Sorin art, the one that was all over dailymtg during DKA pre-release.

what luck.. I bought a $2 mini-pack at the store tonight, first time I've bough a sealed pack in a decade or more, and got Sorin. Even better, he fits nicely into my RWB commander deck with Kaervek the Merciless, et al.

Got 2 during launch and one in my prize, I have to say hes pretty awesome. I am not one to buy a 50$ card though, but having played 2 of them I found them to be really really good at being able to keep himself alive, especially considering my deck was kinda slow to begin with. I like everything about him except I wish the emblem also gave toughness... But I also don't think its needed to make him too overpowered. Great card and since I have enough, I will probably make a token deck with him included. But its good to know his price won't remain high too long, give it some time. 5/5 for his flexibility on aggro and defense, along with his sexy ultimate.

Even without being a judge, I can give you a ruling about a potential Infinate Combo with Experiment Kraj.

It doesn't work.

306.5. Loyalty is a characteristic only planeswalkers have.

Experiment Kraj is not a planeswalker, it can not have loyalty counters placed on it, and can never pay the activation cost of a planeswalker ability.

@UsagiYojimbo

306.5c The loyalty of a planeswalker on the battlefield is equal to the number of loyalty counters on it.

Again, only planeswalkers have loyalty, this over-rides any other rule about paying loyalty on a permanent to activate an ability. Because no other permanents than planeswalkers can have loyalty value recognised by the game. A non-planeswalker permanent may well have loyalty counters on it, but the game does not recognise them as loyalty you can use.

This is a very deliberate wording, to explicitly prevent any ability copying card from using planewalker abilities. Other use of permanent is probably in case they do decide to have a new card type that uses loyalty, or allow for a permanent that acts as reserve of loyalty tokens. It is explicitly declared, by 306.5, that other permanents can never have Loyalty. They are unlikely to change this, and particularly unlikely to change it to allow an infinite combo to function.

Ok so the kraj/apron combo for one isn't possible, and for two requires you to run 4 colors.... If you want to infinite combo there are MUCH better and simpler combos out there...

man this is a good card, pricey, but could end up dominating tournaments. first time i read it, i missed the other planes walkers part, would be sick if it could target its self. o well.

Pretty surprising that some vampires have white in them after all.

@MANABURNWASGOOD and people like him, it's a planeswalker that only costs 4 mana that can defend him self while adding loyalty, and healing you. The reason why it's a 1/1 with life-link instead of a 1/1 with life-link and flying is because of balance, complaining about that balancing factor makes you sound like a whiny player. You're complaining about getting a 1/1 with life link for no mana that buffs your planeswalker's loyalty. Plus the second ability can buff it up so you have several 2/1s with life link that can defend or kill, that right there is really good. Then to top it off the third ability lets you kill your opponent's meanest planeswalkers and creatures then put them into play under your control. Then to top it all off this card has amazing art. Yes 50-60 bucks is pricey for a card, but this card is very good. No complaints from me. This card is a five out of five from me. (5/5 rating)

Currently selling for $60 (US)..
A friend and I have decided that the booster box we're splitting will have 72 of these.

Anyway, greedy bastard thoughts aside, this is my favorite planeswalker card so far.. Being able to turncoat Jace, Baneslayer, and a Titan in one go certainly has it's advantages.

It must be red&black :(

another limited use, over priced planeswalker. the last ability is the cream here, the other two are average at best. Card is not a $60 card, in a month you'll find them for 15.

The tokens don't even fly.

preordered at $60 and already dropped $10. I think it will still come down. destroyed totally by a simple bramblecrush. I bought 2 boxes and got 2 of them. I'm happy about that as I did want to use him in possibly a ghave, guru of spores combined with doubling season and parallel lives. I think this combo will work much better than the rith, the awakener one i tried. I think the card is slightly over-rated, but not without it's uses.

@FORGEROFDEATH, enjoy your 2/1 non-flying life-linked useless blocker tokens after they get pyroclasmed or machine gunned. I've been playing MTG since @ 1996, I've seen cards come and go, be touted then flop. I can whine about what I like thank you very much. As I mentioned in my last line before my reply "I think the card is slightly over-rated, but not without it's uses"

JOHN TRAVOLTA, LORD OF INNISTRAD

I love how you can find him in a fat pack, sell him, then get enough money to buy another fat pack.

And that's exactly what I did. :)

EDIT2: My hypothesis is now somewhat further validated by an article from DailyMTG, the deck in question uses Quicksilver Elemental, but I don't see a difference in the nature of the interaction, as it's still a creature gaining Planeswalker abilities.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ftl/181

EDIT1: @Jayblanc: Okay, I totally get that loyalty is a characteristic only Planeswalkers have, but I don't think that means what you think it means. I don't see how you need to have the Loyalty characteristic to activate a Loyalty ability you have.

We all agree Kraj gets the ability right? Well rule 606.4 clearly states that only "cost to activate a loyalty ability of a permanent is to put on or remove from that permanent a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability‘s cost," not the reduction of a loyalty value or anything like that. How could what you say be true if there is an explicit reference to a non-Planeswalker activating loyalty abilities in the comp-rules?

From what I can see the only meaning behind the concept of Loyalty, and the meaning of the rule you are citing, is the number of counters a Planeswalker enters the battlefield with.

@Jayblanc While it is true that Loyalty is a characteristic only Planeswalkers have, that doesn't mean non-Planeswalkers can't have Loyalty counters on them. Check out Llanowar Reborn, a land that comes with a +1/+1 counter. Power and toughness are a characteristic only creatures have, and yet it can have the counter and, in the rulings it states clearly:

5/1/2007: The +1/+1 counter won't affect Llanowar Reborn in any way unless another effect turns it into a creature.

The rule about Planeswalkers states that the loyalty ability literally means:

306.5b A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, "This permanent enters the battlefield
with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number."

Followed by:

306.5c The loyalty of a planeswalker on the battlefield is equal to the number of loyalty counters on
it.

Once Kraj gains a loyalty ability, it can pay for it with loyalty because Loyalty abilities are still activated abilities, they are just "special" and that specialness of them isn't that they have to used by a Planeswalker, it's that they are used at Sorcery speed and only once per turn.

306.5d Each planeswalker has a number of loyalty abilities, which are activated abilities with
loyalty symbols in their costs. Loyalty abilities follow special rules: A player may activate a
loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is
empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if none of that permanent‘s loyalty
abilities have been activated that turn.

I admit it is weird that the ability states "Planeswalker" clearly in one and "Permanent" in the other, but that implies that the boundary, like every boundary in magic, is fluid and permeable more than it implies the opposite. I suspect this rule will be reworded to use the word Permanent for both someday.

Also, here is some more overkill:

606.2. An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability. Normally, only
planeswalkers have loyalty abilities.

Somewhere, I saw something about how Kraj wouldn't be able to put loyalty on itself with Sorin's first ability in a much more toned down version of this impractically beautiful mess of a combo. That isn't true, cost is part of an ability. Loyalty abilities with +'s in them have adding those counters as part of their cost.

606.4. The cost to activate a loyalty ability of a permanent is to put on or remove from that permanent a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability‘s cost.

When Kraj copies another tap ability, it doesn't go infinite automatically, it has to tap.

And now, I am off to do something infinitely less dorky, BUT JUST AS MEANINGLEEEESSESSESSESSESSESS!

I always knew he wasn't your typical ALL BLACK kind of planeswalker, just take a look at the flavor text of Day of Judgment (Zendikar edition). It's not explicit but you can see he's not a total mad-man like...Nicol Bolas?

Hey there Sephiroth, since when did you become a vampire?

Also, as an aside, I am thrilled to see in the FAQ that Sorin can target himself as a creature if he's animated. Gogo combo EDH!

So let's see:

+1: A 1/1 token.
-2: Half an anthem, in "can't get rid of me, nyah" form.
-6: Steal three creatures and planeswalkers? And get their ETB effects again? Or you can get your own ETB effects.

Between this and Thraben Doomsayer/Ravenous Demon/Village Cannibals, expect black/white tokens to be big for the rest of this Standard season. I only wish we had some wedge lands so I could use him more easily with Rakish Heir and Curse of Stalked Prey.

Everyone knew he was coming, you could see him in the art for DKA before it was released
the "other" clause on his ultimate is sad... we could have broken him so bad
also: i understand why he is {W}{B}, but WHY, WIZARDS, WHY!!!!! :(

The First and second ability go so well together, and the third is basically the finisher.

use the first two to steadily pump up your lifelink army, and when you can't buff them up enough, BAM! take theirs and swing with 'em.

Just make sure you don't go too heavy on them, or else you might not have much choice on what to take.

I approve of this planewalker except that its B/W.

I understand why it is(lore wise) but would much prefer it to be B/R would have been more in theme with the vamps.

This card is much more versatile than people seem to think, his -6 ability can be used to steal opponent's permanents, sure but in a pinch you can also:

1. Remove -1/-1 counters from your own creatures, by destroying them and having them return to the battlefield.
2. Remove auras attached to your own creatures, under the same principle.
3. Repump any other planeswalkers under your control after using some of their abilities (example: Use old Lilliana Vess's -2 ability to tutor a card to the top of your library, then bring her back with 5 counters.
4. Trigger enters the battlefield effects from your own creatures advantageously (looking at you, Snapcaster Mage).

...just make sure you don't use the -6 ability to destroy a Phage, The Untouchable.

-2 is amazing I pulled this guy in my first dark ascension booster and love him so much

Sorin.

He's my +1.

Wait he got white?


B-b-but, they said... once you go- *gets shot*

F it, this card doesn't exist, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar. I deny its existence. Sorin is not WHITE (except for his gorgeous alabaster skin of course, but that's out of the point right now).
Blue zombies ... I was kinda ok with the whole alchemy explanation, red/green werewolves ... I was like WTF?!?, werevolves are supposed to be BLACK, maybe / at most, at red vampires I was ***ed, that's bullcrap why are damn vampires RED, but WHITE Sorin, that's just too much.

Vampires are not WHITE!!!

@ Thana. You didn't actually give him .5 stars for his type did you? Let me explain this to you. Black= death, not evil. There is no reason for werewolves to be black. They are red and green depending on whether they want to depict their nature at wild animals or furious killers. Vampires come in red to show their recklessness. And most importantly, Sorin has white because he is no average vampire. It's indicative of his oath to help mankind so that they have a fighting chance against the horrors of Innistrad. As for the card himself, if you make good use of an emblem, it's a huge deal. He comes in handy with token gen too. BW tokens are big because of him, and once ratchet bomb and corrosive gale cycle out, they'll explode. I love this card.

I love how the white is blowing people's minds. Sorin is all about order and long-range planning, the epitome of white. He created Avacyn to maintain balance so that the human population that he and the other vampires depend on wouldn't be overfished to extinction by the gangs of monsters roaming Innistrad. Not to mention the whole "sealing the Eldrazi away so that the multiverse doesn't, you know, end" thing.

Sorin will totally yoink your blood and eat his cereal out of your skull when he's finished (black), but he also has the foresight to realize that there needs to be rules and balance to ensure that everything keeps on going, since society disappearing means his kind disappearing (white). It's not really that hard to wrap your mind around, folks.

"Mankind ill needs a savior such as you!"


For some reason, the J apanese version of this card has vastly superior art... ;-)

More seriously, it's a shame they decided to cut off one of the coolest parts of this artwork-
the frame is blocking the white magic he's conjuring at his fingertip.
It looks really nice with the black wisps surrounding it, and it's part of his flavor now, as well.

As for the card, well... he rocks. The colors aren't for everyone, but he's a very solid pick.
As an Esper player, I've been wanting a good {W/B} PW for ages,
and Sorin does not disappoint!

@DarthParallax This is hopeless. I don't know why I'm bothering. Maybe it's so you don't rub off on impressionable new people who think you're on to something.

Anyways, for starters, watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_lRg8MsB0k
Now watch it about eight more times. That should give you a rough idea of what I want to express.

Now, let's deconstruct your "combo" to find the glaring flaws.
For starters, this board set up is so ridiculous that your opponent practically has to sit there and do nothing for a dozen turns while you set it up. I noticed you said this wasn't practical for a normal game, but this isn't practical in any game except an EDH game in which you gave yourself about twenty extra turns. The only people who don't scoop after you pull that off are either morbidly curious or extremely confident they can still win.

"Step 1: Kraj targets Sorin himself with Sorin's Ultimate."
You know what, I'll be nice. I'll assume you spent some time working up Kraj so that he'd have at least six loyalty. By the way, you totally need to have at least six loyalty counters on Kraj to use that ability.
606.4. The cost to activate a loyalty ability of a permanent is to put on or remove from that permanent a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost.
606.5. A loyalty ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be activated unless the permanent has at least
that many loyalty counters on it.

"Step 2: Sorin destroys himself and 2 other Planeswalkers, they each come back. Doubling Season gives them enough counters to go Ultimate. 2 Doubling Seasons ensure they live to tell the tale."
Well, it's Kraj destroying the initial Sorin, but the rest of that works. That's just a minor thing.

"Step 5: Kraj can use Sorin's Ultimate again. Infinite Loop* "
Except Kraj has already used a loyalty ability this turn.
606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has
priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.
Pay extra attention to this part
"but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn."
Once Kraj has used a loyalty ability for the turn, that's it. He's done using loyalty abilities. at least as that instance of Kraj. In your example it's totally plausible to use your initial Sorin to snipe Kraj. This brings him back with no loyalty, so you don't have six counters on it for firing off Sorin's ultimate. Of course, this is completely disregarding the fact that your initial Sorin no longer has a +1/+1 counter on it thanks to a trip to the graveyard. Your setup has no way of giving Kraj haste so it can't put a new +1/+1 counter on Sorin, you'd need to add a way in.

But that doesn't really matter because you're not putting six loyalty counters on Kraj without Fate Transfer. No, Kraj can not use Sorin's ultimate all night and day because it only gets one loyalty ability per life and it needs to be able to remove six loyalty each time it wants to use it.

This doesn't work how you want it to.
No, that's giving you too much credit.
This doesn't work. At all.
You're fooling yourself if you don't believe it. You're kidding yourself if you don't believe it.
You know, while you're at it, you should go listen to that song. Maybe the chorus will beat itself into your head. Fooling Yourself. You want the Styx version.
Your flawed abomination of a combo is already too convoluted as is. Fixing it will only make it more convoluted. It's not worth it. Just abandon it, for all our sakes. Please.
Holy crap wall of text. Yes, it is necessary.

I assume the effect of his emblems stacks, right? This dude can become pretty frightening... And his ultimate... oh dear, it's SCARY. Vampires already had the Vampire Haxmage - cough, I mean Vampire Hexmage to instantly kill planeswalkers, and now this guy takes it to a whole new level =D

I like how emblems are now in packs. What was wizards thinking when they didn't print one for koth of the hammer??

Somehow my friend traded me this for an Archangel's Light..... I'll never know why he loves lifegain so much

I think a lot of people are angry about the {W} mana cost because it makes it sound like he sparkles. Don't worry, he doesn't. He's still an immense badass who's willing to stab someone to a wall when magic doesn't work.

I really like the flavor of this card... "Lord of Innistrad"
And he is. He built an angel to form a church... which now controls the hearts and minds of the people of innistrad... Why? Well that's a good question.

Either A: he's slightly benevolent and doesn't want humans to be extinct... (Fairly unlikely)
Or B: he cares for vampires and needed someone to farm humans so that his own kind didn't starve.
Or C: Humans going extinct would have ruined the plain in general, and he doesn't like ugly messes like that.

In any case, he's clearly the man in charge (and no one knows it which makes him cooler) His ambiguous motives make him all the more interesting...

This is the only card with "destroy target planeswalker." 5/5 for that alone.

There's a Final, New, Edit at the bottom- just skip to that part, the rest is, unfortunately, a dead thread.

Phoenix2222 you've clearly never heard of DarthParallax before -.-
Look up 'Knowledge Pool' and come back to me.

Thanks to the people who debated this and helped me repost a shorter version! Apparently Gatherer stops you at 5,000 words. :p

EDIT EDIT EDIT: This combo does work- it's horribly complicated, not practical for a normal game, but it works. Blame the Simic guild, because Experiment Kraj really can do this. Sorin is vital, because without his ability to REANIMATE Planeswalkers, you WOULD be limited by a '1 per turn' activation issue. There is a very, very, very good reason that Sorin's wording says 'other' planeswalkers. Wizards knows that if Sorin ever got targeted by his own Ultimate, all hell breaks loose. It's to try to stop Mad Johnnies from pulling this kind of bullcrap. My previous attempt to use Tezzeret 1 to untap Kraj to give Sorin a +1/1 counter was...excessively complicated, even for me. Just a get a +1/+1 counter on him somehow after you've turned him into an artifact creature. Tezzeret 2 apparently has some nice Combos with cards that cost cheaper overall mana than Mycosynth Lattice and March of the Machines. Artifact Creature Planeswalkers is the goal. Do it somehow.

Setup Your Board State: You have your transmogrified Artifact Creature Planeswalkers, with +1/+1 counters. Kraj can use Planeswalker abilities of these permanents.

Step 1: Kraj targets Sorin himself with Sorin's Ultimate.
Step 2: Sorin destroys himself and 2 other Planeswalkers, they each come back. Doubling Season gives them enough counters to go Ultimate. 2 Doubling Seasons ensure they live to tell the tale.
Step 3: These are counted as new permanents. I think Lattice and March are best to use for Transmogrifying because it's the easiest way to make sure the new REANIMATED Planeswalkers are still Transmogrified.
Step 4: These new permanents can use their Ultimate abilities again.
Step 5: Kraj can use Sorin's Ultimate again. Infinite Loop*

*@: UsagiYojimbo: Thanks for the Quicksilver Elemental reference, and the Comp Rules citations! :D That deck also uses Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas, and there might be yet more shortcuts this deck can take. If there is any way, for example, to have 2 copies of Sorin, Lord of Innistrad on your side, somehow bypassing the Planeswalker Rule, then that ratchets up the efficiency to terrifying levels. (No Transmogrifying or Kraj needed! x.x )

You can only get a Walker to go infinite like this if they are a Walker that is about to be Reanimated by Sorin's ability.

Kraj can keep using Sorin's Ultimate all Day and all Night to keep refreshing your Planeswalkers, three at a time. Sorin will always be one of the three, you change out the other two in turns until you've gotten to use everyone you want to use.

Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is indeed an infinite combo with himself (and some other stuff), and this infinite combo in turn has a ripple effect that allows you to go infinite with all other Planeswalkers, even going Infinite on Ultimates if you add Doubling Seasons to the mix.

@Bandswithother and MyrBattleCube- I am right, and you are wrong, and Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is so powerful he puts Nicol Bolas Planeswalker, Karn the Liberated, and Jace the Mind Sculptor TO SHAME!

@Edit- dammit. well, after researching it three more times, it still doesn't work :/ Still, it is not like this combo is OBVIOUSLY wrong. It's the most complicated attempt to rules-hack I ever worked on, so messing up on the finer details is more like a forgone conclusion than a beginner's mistake.

And the TANTALIZING nature of the prize I ALMOST unlocked really was too tempting to not at least TRY. I tried as hard as I possibly could....aaaand....it doesn't work. crap. here's hoping they print some Un-Set Tomfoolery that lets me finalize realize the dream of Infinite Recurring Planeswalkers!

So I was the first person to try this kind of combo I think, and what happened was everybody else ended up debating the other side because their gut instinct that this was ludicruous and I must have made a mistake turned out to be right. But admit it Johnnies- if you had been the first person to post this idea up, you would have fought tooth and nail for it to work because it would have been worth it to make a deck that did something that insane :p

I think it would make more sense for him to be black and blue (Plus it could go in my Vampire Deck).

@Lordofliege I wish I had friends who are that dumb.

Just to clear it up how and why Sorin, Lord of Innistrad is both white and black is quiet simple. White encompasses "order, protection, light, law" -- while black encompasses "death, ambition, and darkness." Sorin, has elevated himself far beyond the traditional Vampire that hides in the shadows and feeds like a crack-baby. While away from Innistrad, he has setup a system of "order & protection" to keep in check which he knows best...the appetite to kill of his brothers/sisters. He is a life-sub stainer and values life on each plain (flavor text from Day of Judgement/Zendikar). While he inherently has his dark side of doing things...I believe in the arc he is forced to dive into this side of his personality to re-establish the order he had once instilled. Keep in mind this is Magic the Gathering; the lore is not always traditional. I guess the question than is if Sorin is capable to giving life as well as talking it away?

I don't see why people hate this card in black white exaulted you will have enough blockers to defend him in addition to the ones he produces with his +1. and his emblem will help blockers get the edge over some attackers so you don't have to sac your exautled creatures to defend sorin and his ultimate is all you need to get rid of pesky green creatures with ridiculous high pow/def. throw a few murders and go for the the throats in the deck and you have a sure way to get sorin up to where he needs to be. throwing gideon in the mix would help a bit too.

This is an AMAZING card, I pulled a copy in my first Dark Ascension booster.
But....
The first thing that I noticed about this Sorin is that he seems to look like a someone that could be on jersey shore....

Don't believe me? put him as your desktop wallpaper stretched to full size and you'll know why I said this.

DarthParralax. you want infinite planeswalkers? put savor the moment on a panoptic mirror. infinite turns means infinite planeswalker activations.

@DeathParallax Why not Mycosynth Lattice + Doubling Season + March of the Machines+ Sorin, Lord of Innistrad? that actually does do infinite recursion planeswalkers

I WANT TO PROLIFERATE EMBLEMS!

But really, this is doing wonders in my promise of bunrei deck.

i love this card helps me when i have no creatures and play and also helps me buff up my creatures...
4.5/5

Is there any reason I can't get more than one of his emblems? That was partly the reason I though he was so cool was because I thought I could crank'm out AND buff'm - continuously. I see nothing in the rules but the guys I play with told me I could only use it once - per game, of course. Are they wrong?

@Joey17 Yup, your friends are wrong. You can get as many emblems from any planeswalker as many times as you like...most of them, however, do nothing more (Venser and Sorin excluded), and all (Sorin Excluded) are ultimates, which means they're much harder to pull off. As many times as you use Sorin's -2 is as many Sorin emblems you have, and as powerful as your creatures are.

Positive for the card being able to protect itself. Emblems are meh even though the +1 and emblem does work well. -6 is killer being able to have your opponent's planeswalker, or bring your own back for that matter.

Maybe Doubling Season?

I love how with Sorin, WotC really showcases how white does not necessarily equal good, and black does not necessarily equal evil. A white Planeswalker wasn't 'corrupted' to make a black/white one, a black one is simply a vampire that also understands white principles.

Also, does anyone know how much this costs?

I think he's a good card, in general. I mean, in a {W}{B}{R} deck with say Stromkirk captain he could really kick ass.

@ RadMan323: Why not? Maybe because once you activate Sorin's ultimate after he enters the battlefield, the six loyalty counters are removed as a cost, before you could target him to get him back. A planeswalker with 0 loyalty counters is put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based action. So basically, there's no "infinite" combo.

If you want a repeatable loyalty ability combo, I suggest Jace, Architect of Thought with Doubling Season and Wheel of Sun and Moon.

I really wanted to get this for my B/W deck, along with Gatecrash's Orzhov stuff. Hopefully this version will be in the Soryn Vs. Tibalt deck.

I run Black Red is it worth getting rid of red and replacing with white for this?

LOL i pulled him a couple weeks back i bought a dark ascension and m13 core set booster box. i got a garruk in the m13 and my dark ascension was horrible up until i pulled em. THANK YOU SORIN.

Do you think hes playable with orzhov?

Regarding the plan to get infinite ultimates from Sorin's ability: it can actually be done but some people here are overcomplicating it.

Part 1: Have Sorin out and have a continous effect making him a creature. (ie: march of the machines and mycosynth lattice)

Part 2: Have 2 copies of doubling season on the battlefield.

Part 3: Activate Sorin's ultimate, targetting himself and any other planeswalkers. (Sorin can target himself because it specifies other planeswalkers but not other creatures, naturally making him a valid target if he's a creature.) He then reenters the battlefield with 12 loyalty due to the doubling seasons. Because he left then reentered the battlefield he is considered a new permanent and can activate another loyalty ability, preferably his ulti repeating this process.

This allows for infinite ETB and infinite loyalty activations for any other planewalkers. INFINITY!

Sorin's home, and he is ***ed at whoever let it go to hell.

"Do ya smell what Sorin is cookin'?"

I've had this guy rotating as my desktop wallpaper for over a year, and only now do I realize that he's giving the people's eyebrow. Kinda hard to tell when you're an albino vampire, though.

Ultimate Style Points:

Win a game of Duel Decks: Sorin vs. Tibalt by using Sorin's Ultimate to Destroy and Steal Tibalt, the Fiend-blooded, Hellrider, and whatever else Tibalt had on his board that was good.

Thus, you actually did the equivalent of activating a Tibalt Ultimate that also hits Planeswalkers. Against Tibalt.


For. The. Win. B|

@DarthParallex

Lets make this work.
Experiment Kraj
Sorin
Mycosynth Lattice
March of the Machines
Zameck Guildmage
2x doubling season
Random other stuff

Step 1: Activate the first ability of Zamek
Step 2: Cast Sorin, he has a +1/+1 counter
Step 3: Use Sorin to bounce Kraj, and the random other stuff
Step 4: They return, Kraj is at 12 loyalty
Step 5: Kraj bounces Sorin and the random other stuff
Step 6: Sorin has 12 loyalty, bounce Kraj
Repeat! :D

And it is perfectly legal!

Edit: You don't need the Guildmage or the Kraj. If he is a creature, he can bounce himself.

This card can be the most difficult plainswaker to deal with, his defensive measure is very powerful if you summon him early on, meanwhile, your giving your opponent health every time you attack (or attempt to) sorin, his low cost makes him very formidable.

re: Sorin's ability to create 1/1 black vampires with lifelink (Sorin's first ability at +1).

Who can receive the +1 Life from these lifelinks? Is it the player, or Sorin himself, or either?

http://manadeprived.com/comics/durdling-around-28-the-evil-est-planeswalker/