I like this. I like it very much. Just slap a Canopy Cover on him and I'll be a happy man.
MasterOfEtherium
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(5 votes)
Magus Of The VineYard, Radha Heir To Keld........WIN!
WateryMind
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(6 votes)
Ummm... Wow?
Yet another win condition for Elves.
I would say proliferate, but its a bit pointless, don'tcha think?
Give it Hexproof and you're golden.
Pigfish99
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(5 votes)
Oh HELL YES.
Protean hydra and this are two of the perfect hydras for green, without using another color.
I want them. 4 of each. @_@
xRockFan
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(6 votes)
In response to alucard311, the rates of increase are actually rates of linear and exponential increase, where 2 is the common ratio. I agree that this card is better played earlier, but in green, you'll be getting more, hopefully, than one mana per turn. I would say that there is potential for a 5 mana drop by turn 3, which would give the hydra 12 +1/+1 counters by turn 5, along with trample.
Arachibutyrophobia
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(5 votes)
is it just me, or do hydras keep getting more and more overpowered? do you think they could make one any cheaper than this?
MrBarrelRoll
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(6 votes)
One word: TIMMAH.
@WateryMind: Win condition for elves? Not sure what kind of elf decks you run into. When I run an elf deck, the elves ARE the win condition.
qwertycrap
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(5 votes)
yes yes yes YES YES!!!!!!!
Slap down a doubling season for even more ownage.
EvilCartographer
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(3 votes)
Easily the best hydra thanks to its flexibility. Love it.
What's that? Powers of two up to 14. That means if X = 1, in 4 turns he'll be 16/16. If X = 2, it'll take 3 turns, and if X = 4, it'll take 2 turns. Exponential growth is the second highest growth of basic functions, second to factorial growth, meaning you'll have a hard time getting more bang for your buck than this guy.
Note that you will play him as X, but by the time you can attack with him, he'll be 2X, meaning you'll get incredible benefit from him sheerly out of casting him. A 4/4 for 4, an 8/8 for 6, a 16/16 for 10, and the very next turn he'll step up to the next class of potency.
Primal Cocoon will give you a 2 counter advantage each turn if you want to reserve the creature, but Soul's Might would be the best idea in combination.
As I've said and probably will say on other cards, if you take the time for a little Asceticism and reserve a mana for Autumn's Veil, this card is easy to preserve, even in the Standard environment.
Gabriel422
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Just drop it turn two with X = 1, then unleash your handful of Mana Leaks and Negates.
Deco_y
★★★★☆ (4.3/5.0)(3 votes)
Building a ramp deck, and this bad boy just might find a home in it.
Megaknoxx
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
I played this in a prerelease and won 5/7 games i won with this card. This is a bomb. Lolz, although one game i got this out and it was pacified. About 7 turns later I think, my opponent destroyed his own pacifism and use act of treason (a easy way to beat this) and swung for 382 damage... I only had a 4/4 serra angel out at the time and was winning 18-7... That really stunk.
Nucleon
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Have to wonder where they'll go from here if they continue this Hydra trend.
Hypothetical Hydra CMC: XG P/T: 0/0
Hypothetical Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
1, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Hypothetical Hydra: Put a 1/1 green Head creature token onto the battlefield. Sacrifice a creature: Put X +1/+1 counters on Hypothetical Hydra.
Polychromatic
★★★★☆ (4.9/5.0)(5 votes)
I love how Hydras have become Green's iconic big creature.
White has Angels, Blue has Sphinx, Black has Demons, Red has Dragons, and Green has Hydras.
Dr.Pingas
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(3 votes)
Holy crap. Why? Such power!
alucard311
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Yet more Mythic Hydras. Yay. it seems that playing him on turn 3 for 3 or 4 nets the most return. 1 2 2 4 4 3 8 8 6 4 The benefit is obviously playing it earlier, as you are comparing linear and exponential rates of expansion when considering when you play it. Strangely, this is the x card you want to be as small as possible, as you get more bang the earlier you pay your mana.
@xRockFan yeah, you're right, my apologies. Fixed.
Trenonian
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
This is so going in my Naya deck.
Lavrant
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
This guy is an important object lesson in the value of having removal which isn't based on damage/toughness reduction.
konokono
★☆☆☆☆ (1.2/5.0)(2 votes)
What's up Wizards? You forgot to give it Hexproof.
roguepariah
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
turn 1, tinder wall turn 2, this as a 2/2 turn 3, Bounty of the Hunt in response to the triggered ability for a 10/10 trample.
Radagast
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Potentially silly, flexible, and reasonably powerful. Cool card.
CJM2
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I played against this last night. I discovered it pretty much goes something like this:
"You're not playing Doom Blade? Ha, you're screwed."
1 2 . 2 4 . 4 . 3 8 . 8 . 6 . 4 16.16.12 . 8 . 5 Etc . . . the problem with playing it early, even though the chart shows that it is bigger later if you play it earlier, it dies to more removal.
MarilynMonroe
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
I've never had this card problem-ize me. Based on the fact that none of my enemies will give it Hexproof or straight up Shroud. And that's the only thing I dislike about this card, it's more along the lines of "Primordial Use-a-kill-spell-on-me"
Blue laughs at this with Vapor Snag, Unsummon, Disperse, and downright Cancel or Fuel for the Cause if you wanna be funny.
Black loves the fact no hydra's are black. Throats that are Gone for, Blades of Doom, Verdicts of Geth, Malkir's Keeper of Gates, Sickness that gets Spread.
White has gotten evil and will just Pacify, Forced Worship, and just making it soooooo pretty.
Red has two ways of dealing with this too. One way is just early hard damage while it's still trying to grow. ( Red decks that can't easily pump out 4-5 damage in one turn is doing it wrong anyway) Second is just waiting for as long as you can and then use one of your many one turn Mind Control spells, then laugh as you swing with YOUR new 126,000/126,000 with trample.
This card isn't too much different from the other Hydras. Powerful, yes. Vunerable to removal, of course. Needs Shroud/Hexproof to break the game? You bet. But when you boil all the "What if you did this" away, it's still just a big creature with big target on it's head. 4/5 cause it doesn't have shroud.
andre174152
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
this and darksteel plate
TrueBloodWolf
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
The more I see these Green cards, the more I am like "HOW DOES AND HATE EACH OTHER?!" Seriously, the Paradox Haze card, that's Doubling twice! There are so many that work with green without people knowing!
TherealphatMatt
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
Playing this guy and Swiftfoot Boots against a deck without decent artifact removal is basically game over.
TAGVoar
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I LOVE this guy! He is the epitome of green. Something that is big, and only keeps getting bigger. Throw in a slash of blue and he is unstoppable. Especially if that splash of blue is the Lighthouse Chronologist and Copy Enchantment for your Doubling Season. The Lighthouse Chronologist in a multiplayer means every person gets to watch, one after the other, as you swing into the opponent before them, and they get to watch the Hydra getting bigger, and bigger with every extra turn. Also, to deal with board wipe like Wrath of God, throw an Umbra enchantment on it, maybe Spider Umbra.
Three_Toe
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
wins games single-handedly, it's that simple. fog those acts of treason, done deal. normally i'd say red is the best color in m12 draft, until you open up one of these.
JAC747
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(4 votes)
Works well with Omnath, Locus of Mana. Ramp up to 100 mana then drop this guy on the field and next turn swing for 200 with trample. Priceless. 5/5
Kryptnyt
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(3 votes)
Miracle Gro decks?
KrosanPeacekeeper
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I'm trying to make a G/W deck that uses Primordial Hydra as its finisher. The first thing I wanna do is protecting the hydra from every disruption that the enemy may throw at it. Cards from M12 like Swiftfoot Boots, Autumn's Veil, can protect it from blue or black spells. The real challenge comes from Green allied colors themselves. The boots got destroyed by Naturalize, while White's Oblivion Ring can be very annoying, and barrage of red spells really hits it hard when the boots is not around. If Innistrad is an expansion with graveyard-theme, I hope Wizards would reprint Glory, so it might give addition to the strategy to protect the hydra.
creonto
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
this thing is a beast. by turn 4 in a graft deck i can get it out as a 5/5 and the next turn, i drop a paradox haze and they can kiss their game goodbye. i give this card an easy 10/5 and no i dont care that that is mathematically impossible the card is just that good
HeavyEcho
★★☆☆☆ (2.5/5.0)(1 vote)
i dont agree with people saying to get this card out early i prefer to play it when i have around 10+ mana out using llanowar elves, viridian emissary's, and my personal fav Primevil Titan to get my mana out fast. and then i wait a few turns and keep my hydra protected using Asceticism and then i charge
PcvsApple
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Combos well with....... Your opponents end step. And his face. And storm crow.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I like to look at this bad boy as costing 7. 7 mana u get a 5/5 and next turn u swing with a 10/10 trampler. turn after that hes a godly 20/20. 7 mana can be achived very early and easily in a ramp deck.
Steinhauser
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Compare to Scute Mob - both are cheap creatures that start small and grow to deadly proportions a few turns later without help.
Both have their advantages. Primordial Hydra is the more powerful, especially with built-in trample. While Scutes grow linearly, the hydra grows exponentially, and without needing a prerquisite number of lands. It can already start big if cast late-game - spend enough mana and it's a 1-turn clock as soon as it's cast.
Scute Mob requires more support, but it's also easier to support. As a 1-drop, you can often cast it while mana ramping or protecting it the same turn. It interacts favourably with Green Sun's Zenith and Genesis Wave. It's not as succeptable to things like Vampire Hexmage and Hex Parasite.
it's already pretty silly as it is, but trample? really? friggin' trample on this thing? considering his lowest possible cost is 3, that's a bit ridiculous. just a bit.
entari0
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
i played a game against my bro's mono white deck (lifegain) starting at 100 life. he had plenty of life gain, but i had a 128/128 trampler
Oyster450
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I Was so mad. My wife opened a booster and pulled a foil Primeval Titan and Primordial Hydra. She put both in her casual green deck. At first I thought it was a reprint of Protean Hydra with new art, until she played it in a rogue match, it got up to a 64/64 then played an Overwhelming Stampede and won the game. After the match we calculated how much damage she would have done if she would have waited one more turn and just attacked with her Liege of the Tangle that turn instead. It was around 2,800 something damage. She get's all the good cards... T-T
kor6sic6
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Holy crap. That is all. Any G ramp deck with Vernal Bloom and any mana aura's would love this guy. So much.
Supa_Rhino
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Do you all notice the epic combo with Paradox Haze? You get to basically quadruple the amount of counters it has at the beginning of your upkeep.
Daft_Shroomz
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@HeavyEcho Yes, but unless you're playing a rock, your opponent is going to have the equivalent number of land and creatures out. Hit fast, hit hard.
endersblade
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I played this guy in EDH once. He stayed on the board with a pacifism on his face for about 10 turns with a doubling season in play...the math on this thing got crazy. I ended up finally blowing the pacifism up, swinging into one guy, Soul's Fire another, and then Altar of Dementia the last.
In normal 60 card decks, this guy has been freaking amazing for me. He's become a four-of in my stompy deck, next to Primalcrux x4 I'm already running. Green stompy just gets more and more love!
Has anyone mentioned Heartless Summoning? It shrinks him by 1, but the {2} reduction means he comes in with two extra counters anyway, so he starts off 1 bigger and grows much faster.
SquirePath
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
I can cast this guy as a 12/12 on Turn 4 and give him Hexproof on Turn 5. Game breaking? definitely not. Hilarious? Of course.
The reason Wizards keeps making these cards is because those 8-year-old kids of yesteryear keep growing up.
dontmess17
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
T3 bring him out as a 1/1, T4 Increasing Savagery. that shouldn't take too long ;)
whiteside1013
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
If you aren't concerned with series, Whispersilk Cloak works great in combination with Primordial Hydra. If you are, Swiftfoot Boots is also really effective. I make sure to keep a couple of each in my deck.
Here's an equation for playing him: Y=(Z-2)(2^X-Z) Note: X minus Z is the exponent for 2. Anyway Y is his power and toughness, X is the turn number, and Z is the mana you spent to cast him.
For example, if you played him on the 5th turn (for a power of 3), the equation would be: Y=3(2^X-5)
The equation is too complicated in my opinion, but alucard311 is correct.
That said, this guy has a bigger target on his face(s) than Kaalia...
EDIT: Oh, and it's also a fact that primordial can mean primeval.
Arachnos
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Interesting and versatile. Best of course as a finisher in late game when you can cast him already large and he gets huge in a matter of two or three turns, but you can also cast him dirt cheap at the beginning of a game (ideally slapping some kind of shroud on him as well) and let him grow slowly, putting your opponent on a countdown to doom.
Atali
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Is it just me, or does it seem like Hydras are taking over as green's mascot creature?
MaDaZi
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Luckily he's coming back for Magic 2013
DragonsRCool
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Hydra is green's mascot creature and I think that's awesome.
arcaneimperator
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
T1 forest -> birds of paradise T2 forest, birds of paradise -> somberwald sage T3 forest, birds of paradise, somberwald sage -> a 5 counter primordial hydra T4 primordial hydra grows to 10 trample
HeWench
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is the best card ever, I'll tell you why. Everyone wants to target it. Use sheltering word to protect it and net you massive amounts of life. Use overgrown battlement and omnath the locus of mana to pump the hell out of it. Finally replace 8 forests with llanwar elves and birds of Paradise for extra measure. Top off your deck with aestheticism and layline of sanctity. Reeeealy mean green.
PS: Feed the pack when he gets over 80 toughness, omnath likes that too.
Cygore
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I rate this guy high because although he's weak to control, he's still epic. He's good early or late, his cost is so low that even if he is removed, it's not a huge loss-if anything it's a good thing that he gets targeted because it keeps the focus off of your core strategy-and if he isn't targeted, then he gets huge and has trample. It's a win win situation if you ask me. I wouldn't build a deck around him, but he is excellent support for any deck with green.
RandomGuyx
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I made a Primordial Hydra B/G deck with Liliana of the dark realms as the planeswalker, aside from never missing a land drop each turn her -6 ability earlier on will allow massive Primordial Hydra's as soon as they hit play, comboed with vigor, asceticism and Yeva natures herald, hexproof indestructible Hydra with Flash and massive mana ramp means one sad opponent. 5/5
Manatramp
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Last game I played Fungal Sprouting at 16/16 waited two turns for a 64/64 Hydra then Craterhoof behemoth and ran my opponent for 400 and something damage
Mirth ensued.
Sadrael
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I was able to detain this guy six turns in a row. When my ability to keep him detained sputtered out, he was a 1000/1000 (and dude, the math is hard). Yikes. (FYI: this card pairs well with Corpsejack Menace!)
Comments (71)
Yet another win condition for Elves.
I would say proliferate, but its a bit pointless, don'tcha think?
Give it Hexproof and you're golden.
Protean hydra and this are two of the perfect hydras for green, without using another color.
I want them. 4 of each. @_@
@WateryMind: Win condition for elves? Not sure what kind of elf decks you run into. When I run an elf deck, the elves ARE the win condition.
Slap down a doubling season for even more ownage.
For a 3 card play with no threat except card disadvantage that's pretty good.
What's that? Powers of two up to 14. That means if X = 1, in 4 turns he'll be 16/16. If X = 2, it'll take 3 turns, and if X = 4, it'll take 2 turns. Exponential growth is the second highest growth of basic functions, second to factorial growth, meaning you'll have a hard time getting more bang for your buck than this guy.
Note that you will play him as X, but by the time you can attack with him, he'll be 2X, meaning you'll get incredible benefit from him sheerly out of casting him. A 4/4 for 4, an 8/8 for 6, a 16/16 for 10, and the very next turn he'll step up to the next class of potency.
Primal Cocoon will give you a 2 counter advantage each turn if you want to reserve the creature, but Soul's Might would be the best idea in combination.
As I've said and probably will say on other cards, if you take the time for a little Asceticism and reserve a mana for Autumn's Veil, this card is easy to preserve, even in the Standard environment.
Hypothetical Hydra
CMC: XG
P/T: 0/0
Hypothetical Hydra enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters on it.
1, Remove a +1/+1 counter from Hypothetical Hydra: Put a 1/1 green Head creature token onto the battlefield.
Sacrifice a creature: Put X +1/+1 counters on Hypothetical Hydra.
White has Angels, Blue has Sphinx, Black has Demons, Red has Dragons, and Green has Hydras.
1
2 2
4 4 3
8 8 6 4
The benefit is obviously playing it earlier, as you are comparing linear and exponential rates of expansion when considering when you play it. Strangely, this is the x card you want to be as small as possible, as you get more bang the earlier you pay your mana.
@xRockFan yeah, you're right, my apologies. Fixed.
turn 2, this as a 2/2
turn 3, Bounty of the Hunt in response to the triggered ability for a 10/10 trample.
"You're not playing Doom Blade? Ha, you're screwed."
Not fun to face down. Not at all.
2 . 2
4 . 4 . 3
8 . 8 . 6 . 4
16.16.12 . 8 . 5
Etc . . . the problem with playing it early, even though the chart shows that it is bigger later if you play it earlier, it dies to more removal.
Blue laughs at this with Vapor Snag, Unsummon, Disperse, and downright Cancel or Fuel for the Cause if you wanna be funny.
Black loves the fact no hydra's are black. Throats that are Gone for, Blades of Doom, Verdicts of Geth, Malkir's Keeper of Gates, Sickness that gets Spread.
White has gotten evil and will just Pacify, Forced Worship, and just making it soooooo pretty.
Red has two ways of dealing with this too. One way is just early hard damage while it's still trying to grow. ( Red decks that can't easily pump out 4-5 damage in one turn is doing it wrong anyway) Second is just waiting for as long as you can and then use one of your many one turn Mind Control spells, then laugh as you swing with YOUR new 126,000/126,000 with trample.
This card isn't too much different from the other Hydras. Powerful, yes. Vunerable to removal, of course. Needs Shroud/Hexproof to break the game? You bet. But when you boil all the "What if you did this" away, it's still just a big creature with big target on it's head. 4/5 cause it doesn't have shroud.
Seriously, the Paradox Haze card, that's Doubling twice!
There are so many
Also, to deal with board wipe like Wrath of God, throw an Umbra enchantment on it, maybe Spider Umbra.
Both have their advantages. Primordial Hydra is the more powerful, especially with built-in trample. While Scutes grow linearly, the hydra grows exponentially, and without needing a prerquisite number of lands. It can already start big if cast late-game - spend enough mana and it's a 1-turn clock as soon as it's cast.
Scute Mob requires more support, but it's also easier to support. As a 1-drop, you can often cast it while mana ramping or protecting it the same turn. It interacts favourably with Green Sun's Zenith and Genesis Wave. It's not as succeptable to things like Vampire Hexmage and Hex Parasite.
She get's all the good cards... T-T
Any G ramp deck with Vernal Bloom and any mana aura's would love this guy. So much.
In normal 60 card decks, this guy has been freaking amazing for me. He's become a four-of in my stompy deck, next to Primalcrux x4 I'm already running. Green stompy just gets more and more love!
Also, strictly better than Feral Hydra lol.
Game breaking? definitely not.
Hilarious? Of course.
that shouldn't take too long ;)
Note: X minus Z is the exponent for 2.
Anyway Y is his power and toughness, X is the turn number, and Z is the mana you spent to cast him.
For example, if you played him on the 5th turn (for a power of 3), the equation would be: Y=3(2^X-5)
The equation is too complicated in my opinion, but alucard311 is correct.
That said, this guy has a bigger target on his face(s) than Kaalia...
EDIT: Oh, and it's also a fact that primordial can mean primeval.
T2 forest, birds of paradise -> somberwald sage
T3 forest, birds of paradise, somberwald sage -> a 5 counter primordial hydra
T4 primordial hydra grows to 10 trample
PS: Feed the pack when he gets over 80 toughness, omnath likes that too.
waited two turns for a 64/64 Hydra
then
Craterhoof behemoth and ran my opponent for 400 and something damage
Mirth ensued.