Pointed Discussion

Another Shadow of the Colossus card.

probably the best of the cycle, since it is basically a cheaper woodfall primus, which is already edh gold

the le reddit r/mtg army and its leejun hates this card! 5 stars if you agree!

This art makes me so happy. :*)

Not sure why this makes forests, but who cares. Sweet EDH card is sweet.

EDH ban incoming.

Behold the lovechild of Terastodon and Primeval Titan, which are both nuts in EDH.

The late ramp may not always be directly beneficial, but it at least thins your deck of otherwise dead cards and provides a nice body. 3.68/5.

Going straight into my ramp deck! ^_^

I wouldn't say it's strictly better than Terastodon or Woodfall Primus, but it's not too shabby. You get to destroy permanents and not only do you get a giant body with reach, you get lands, too.

Now that's a Commander / EDH card. :) Lots of card advantage, pretty versatile, filters your library a bit, good stuff. Especially if you can keep triggering it's enter the battlefield ability, by flickering it or reanimating it a few times or copying it or whatever.

It's a shame it got not rample or any sort of evasion, but still nice.

This won't get banned in EDH, are you kidding? The only reason Primeval Titan got banned was because his effect was EVERY turn for ANY two lands. That was broken. At best, this is just "I get Stomping Ground, Breeding Pool, and Overgrown Tomb, and you each lose a mana rock"

hooray for landfall-edh.dec

EDh gold. This will end up destroying 3+ permanents more often than not, accelerate your mana, thin your deck, block a 6/6 flyer and live to block again or swing for 6. That's not even some far-fetched scenario. That's what this card does.
That's what I call value.

This is like some bizarre lovechild between Primeval Titan and Terastodon, and almost a suitable replacement for the former in EDH. Both abilities are quite beneficial and upside for you, and if you have blink effects, this can be abused with impunity, unlike Terastodon.

This Primordial is easily the best one of the 5. Unlike the others which have potential card advantage, This one is almost always going to get you card advantage. You are in a 4 player game, you cast this or reanimate it. Lets say they have nothing of real value on the board. Who cares, destroy 3 lands and fetch 3 forests. And they can be nonbasic as well. There are only 2 instances where this thing doesn't give you a major card advantage swing. Either all your opponents stuff is hexproof/shroud/indestructible (Which its possible for one of them to have this but very unlikely for all of them to.) or they have no permanents on the field.

I really disapprove this kind of card. It's too much of a haymaker, netting a 7-for-1 advantage in casual games with 4 players. This would be acceptable if it had a real drawback. Instead, it's also a 6/8, which is humongous.

This thing really needed to be more expensive, or put the lands under the control of your opponents.

Stupidly good - blow something up AND get a forest, why not?! Very powerful, and while the late-game ramp isn't great, it is still basically free since you also to destroy something. Very amazing in Commander.

I vacuum this may be one of the best primordials. But white and blue have the most effective ways to abuse etb effects thus making their primordials the strongest ones.

Doesn't this kill planeswalkers?!

Mayael the Anima is pleased.

Way too good for its cost. Just a pure monster in EDH, I just got one for my Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord deck. Removes basically all threats I can't deal with otherwise. Creature removal comes easy for my deck, but non-creature removal like this plus ramp is Christmas come early.

I put it straight into my Yeva, Nature's Herald Edh, flashing him in has already proven hilarious.

EDH Gold. No Prime Time, but the next best thing. Fun Rite of Replication target, can end the game with Deadeye Navigator or Progenitor Mimic.

I put this in a G/U Ramp deck with a bunch of ETB creatures like Sphinx of Uthuun and Borderland Ranger. In a multiplayer game, I get at least 3-5 Forests (including any shocklands such as Breeding Pool). Combined with Deadeye Navigator, I blow up everyone's land and thin out my deck. People tend to hate me after that.

4.5/5. Solid fatty for green players.

Use responsibly in Multiplayer.

I would like this guy much better if he said destroy target noncreature, nonland permanent. Too often I see player 1 blow up something useful from everyone and a land of the player who's behind, player 2 clone this and blow up one of everyone else's lands, player 1 blink it and blow up more lands. Can be pretty unfun to play against in EDH.

Fetches your Dryad Arbor for you. Seems like a good Re-animator target. Edit: for nine mana combos with Strionic Resonator for double the destruction/ Ramp. Or blink it and pay 2 for Strionic.

turn 6, they play Elspeth.
my turn 6, i play this and kill Elspeth. lol. (i say turn 6 cause this goes in a ramp deck.)

i did that once, and that laughed and went "lol ok."
"OK!? OK!? i just got rid of your Elspeth, put out a 6/8 with reach, and thinned out my deck, and your reply was OK, like i didn't just swing the entire game around? whatever, i swing for 6....."
"oh yeah... shit."


also, you can laugh at their Desecration Demons.

Unbelievable card. In a typical multiplayer EDH game, this might be the most devastating kicked Rite of Replication. I'll put five 6/8 creatures with reach, I destroy 5 noncreature permanents of my choice for each player, I put 15 forests on the battlefield. You could argue a few other cards are better, but Sylvan Primordial costs one dollar. Solid gold.

I imprint this on my Mimic Vat all the time and I don't even have forests to fetch.

I made an account just to comment on this card. It has far too great of an impact and is degenerate to healthy games. (Talking Edh here) This one card alone is a 7 for 1. It does too much when it comes out early. And then people start cloning it. So what usually happens is that if someone has a slow start, they get knocked completely out of the game by lands. I can't believe they'd ban primeval titan and replace it with this monstrosity. At least prime time never shot anyone's lands.

With that being said, this guy is one of my favorite creatures. Here are my favorite ways to abuse it by color:

Green: simply ramp and play it early. For consistency, use green sun's zenith, chord of calling, birthing pod and tooth and nail. If you feel like cheating, tap that elvish piper, or sac the dryad arbor or wood elves to natural order and proceed to win. Mono green also has access to mimic vat for additional douchiness.

Blue: Obvious one here, clone it. Repeatedly. My opponents crap their pants when my zegana deck gets this out early and I get an easy refill. Phantasmal image, phyrexian metamorph, clone, sakashima and her student, and progenitor mimic are my favorites. Outside of traditional clones there are games Enders like dead eye navigator and rite of replication. Bribery Also lets you cheat out an opponents primordial as early as turn 2. Almost forgot the body double once someone kills it!

Black: Derp reanimate it! Over and over and over! There are lots, reanimate, animate dead, necromancy, chained dementia master, and much much more. Entomb, buried alive, or survival of the fittest to get it into the grave easier. Mikaeus lets you do it twice too, but if your going that route might as well go infinite with the woodfall primus.

Red: Not as easy to abuse, but is very good friends with kiki jikki and splinter twin. Sneak attack lets you cheat it in for a measly 1 mana.

White: leAst abusable color. Pitch this to survival of the fittest for your karmic guide.

Conclusion: too powerful. Should say non land/ non creature permanent. If primeval titan was unbanned this wouldn't be so bad though.

Can someone read those rulings for me and explain that last bit about targeting a creature?

Banhammered, sadly. Though i quite understand how annoying it is, like in my karador deck. I mean, destroying 3 planeswalker at once, sac it for something (token,manas, or else), and cast it again from the graveyard next turn?

I remember that this was the last primordial spoiled. before it came out (and the other 4 were), I predicted that it would have a "destroy noncreature permanent", but I did not expect the big body and the forest ramping (and expected trample instead of reach) because I thought that popping any noncreature permanents would already be pushing the power level.

lol

With the banning of primeval titan in EDH, I believe this is the premiere creature in the format. It's hard to go wrong with a card that both is removal and ramp. It's fairly balanced for 1v1, but when you have 2+ opponents it gets ridiculous. For example, suppose it's a simple 3-way FFA, everyone is at 6 lands and there are no other noncreature permanents in play. You hit your 7th, drop him, you pop two lands and get two forests. Suddenly both of your opponents are at 5 lands and you are at 9, so you have nearly double their lands each. That's already extremely powerful, and that's at the low end of potential power. Imagine a 4-way FFA where you pop, say, gilded lotus + birthing pod + skullclamp and then fetch 3 forests. The only "balance" with the card here is that once you drop him in a multiplayer and just end up super-far ahead, the rest of the table will gang up on you.

The reason why it's so good is that it's strong no matter what point in the game it is. It's extremely reliable. For example, the other 4 primordials all have reasonable situations where they aren't actually bonkers (for example, the white and red primordial aren't good when the board was just swept, while the blue and black primordials get nerfed by graveyard hate). It's very rare for this to not be strong. Like, maybe you're up against a player with a darksteel forge out and another has double privileged position out, then it doesn't do anything, but they're pretty rare.


EDIT: And Sylvan primordial just got banned. While it's not nearly as stupid as things like upheaval or other cards on the banlist, it was something that goes into every green deck and is usually one of the first green bombs that is played/stolen/cloned/etc. and I think its banning is justified. I think something like sol ring should get banned first (T1 sol ring games are supremely retarded) but I do think this will help diversify green decks.

Banned in EDH. But blue players get to keep their Rite of Replications and Deadeye Navigators? Seriously, are those guys high or something?
Guess I'll have to be content flickering Tyrant of Discord all day now, because it's not as if that card is broken with Deadeye since they didn't ban it.

This card was the perfect fit for my first EDH deck and the card I was most excited to play. Banned just a week before I would have been able to finish it...

Glad they finally banned this card. If the temps were mandatory I would agree that the tempt would be better than this, but it isn't mandatory so only extremely desperate or people who haven't played against it before will take it, and it is just strong if only one other person takes the tempt.

The only card out of the ones listed that need to be banned are sol ring and mana crypt (haven't seen one in real live play but it is even more degenerative than sol ring, put only off by its price)

Every other card you listed has to really be broken with a combo and are near useless without them, this card however combo's by just running green and vindicates the best non-creature permanent each opponent controls. Terastadon was considered good, balanced and used fairly often when it came out and it gives them something back for the destruction. This they get nothing AND you ramp and you usually blow up more permanents than with terastadon.

If you can't deal with rite of replication/omniscience/time stretch, it is really your fault for not having some way to stop them or deal with them because you should either have your own bombs or be ending the game way before then with an aggressive deck (yes you can make an aggro edh that wins or knocks out the threat by turn 5-6). There are so many more infinites that are much more efficient than Sanguine Bond / Exquisite Blood that you can't complain about them unless you ban every infinite combo enabler, and even those are easily destroyed (white/green) or stopped (blue/black).

How did this guy banned in EDH while Omniscience, Palinchron, Deadeye Navigator and the devil itself, Sol Ring are all still legal? ALL OF THOSE CARDS DEGENERATE FASTER AND MORE CONSISTENTLY THAN SYLVAN DOES!!!!

EDH COMMITTEE, WHAT THE HECK WERE YOU ON!?

I guess now I just have to kick Rite of Replication, which is also busted, on to Inferno Titan now, and take someone out of the game immediately instead of rectifying the nonsense that the degenerating players try to pull.

It's not like Tempt with Discovery doesn't essentially do the more important half of Sylvan's ability anyway, and better than Sylvan does...

Here's a list of ten (or more) cards that need to be banned in EDH more than Sylvan does, in no particular order:

1: Omniscience - Busts any mono-blue deck...actually it pretty much busts any deck, period.
2: Palinchron - Busts any deck, period. Busts mono-black. How? I don't know, but it does somehow.
3: Deadeye Navigator - Busts Palinchron, turns everything else into Aetherling.
4: Sol Ring - No explanation needed.
5: Tempt with Discovery - Has the potential to ruin any game it comes up in if even a few people take it.
6: Rite of Replication - The card that busts Sylvan Primordial. For real. Also busts anything with "When this creature enters the battlefield..." in it's card text. Go figure.
7: Doubling Season - The card that busts Rite of Replication, and also breaks planeswalkers. Ral Zarek becomes a sorcery that tells you to flip coins and take extra turns.
8: Sanguine Bond / Exquisite Blood - A two card insta-win for 10 mana, that can be set off by any life gain.
9: Time Stretch - PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTT.
10: Anything with the type "Praetor". - Name one that isn't busted as a commander.

Honorable Mention: Azusa, Lost but Seeking, the other card that makes people hate Sylvan Primordial, they just don't realize it's her fault.

Oh and whoops, worse than all of those is this little bugger: Show and Tell, a card that can enable literally any of the others I've mentioned, either directly or by giving it a target. Flash is bad too, and enables a turn 2 Sylvan Primordial in the same way it enabled a turn 2 Protean Hulk, another card that doesn't need to be banned, but is broken by a card that does need to be banned.

I'm sure I missed a bunch more too, these were off the top of my head.

The EDH Committee needs to stop banning cards because people don't like the text on them and start looking at the cards that enable those ridiculous cards to break the format.

@cha0sc0w: SHOW AND TELL. YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID. IF I WANT TO PUT OMNISCIENCE IN TURN 3, I CAN. SPLASH GREEN, AND IT'S TURN 2. GAME IS OVER. AT LEAST WITH SYLVAN I HAD A COUNTERPLAY WHEN PEOPLE PULLED THAT CRAP.

Also, excuse me, but in 1v1, Terastodon is even more powerful than Sylvan is because he manhandles a single opponent. Also, excuse me again, but with the number of land wipes that fall into competitive edh (Obliteration and Jokulhaups being the two that come to mind first...) and the fact that Sylvan's lands come in to play tapped, everyone at the table could have an answer to Sylvan Primordial and has a full turn to respond.

Also, Deadeye Navigator is good with literally any creature, Time Stretch and Omniscience can be cheated in early and in a manner that is quite difficult to respond to by a massive number of cards (Counterlash), and Palinchron needs bounce lands to be busted. That's it. Nothing else. If nothing else, Palinchron is infinite storm for 0 mana. Name a deck that doesn't have at least one storm card that can bust that.

And no, Sylvan doesn't combo at all without other cards. It's not broken, in large games it pretty much screams "kill me" unless you have something else on the field that can abuse it (such as, perhaps, DEADEYE NAVIGATOR) and enough mana before playing Sylvan to make it work.

You are exactly the kind of person that is killing EDH.

Oh, one more thing. If you really believe that Sylvan is powerful enough to be banned in EDH, do you also believe that the one card win condition of Jace, The Mind Sculptor should be banned as well? Because he is unarguably more powerful than Sylvan in anything less than a 10 player game.

When nature calls, ban it in EDH.

Prime Time and Sylvan banned... the EDH rules committee really seems to hate green players.

I'm running the Marath Will of the Wild deck as a big creature +1/+1 counter deck. Anyone have any good replacements for this? It seems everytime I put a big green land grabber in, it gets banned.

Right after wizards tricked my whole group into buying new commander decks too...

This should not be banned in EDH! I just bought one for that very reason god dammit! You know what should be banned? Deadeye Navigator! Stop banning fair green acceleration and start banning cards that are actually broken and unfair.

Primeval Titan makes sense because it's ANY land where as this is ONLY forest cards.

4/5 for being a pretty decent bomb.

This is ban for the LD effect not the land draw. Ya I'm glad to see it go. Now for Tooth and Nail to hit the list please.

I'm rather glad they banned this in commander. I feel (felt) too unfair in playing it!
You can probably tell that I'm not much for Blue if I say that kind of thing!

Why this was banned in commander is beyond me. Meanwhile, Consecrated Sphix (Draw 40 cards for 5 mana in a multiplayer game), Cyclonic rift (Overload: win the game, no matter how far behind you are), Deadeye Navigator, Omniscience, Palinchron, Mana Drain, and more are easily more broken and all blue! Clearly, whoever makes the commander ban decisions plays blue and doesn't like fairly losing when other colors have a chance. Furthermore, I believe the real reason Sylvan Primordial was banned was due it's abuse by Rites of Replication, which, suprise, suprise, is also blue. Rites of Replication has an enormously larger impact on an otherwise balanced game state than Sylvan Primordial ever did, especially when it copies Terastadon, Acidic Slime, or any other number of "enter the battlefield"-ability creatures.

@cha0sc0w you're right, it does destroy each player's best (arguable, since it's noncreature) permanent, that's called removal, for which green has far and away the fewest options, another of which is now gone. Meanwhile, Cyclonic rift, removes EVERYTHING except your permanents. Blue also has about 100 ways to not just remove permanents, but gain control of them.

Your argument "If you can't deal with rite of replication/omniscience/time stretch, it is really your fault for not having some way to stop them or deal with them because you should either have your own bombs or be ending the game way before then," is just ridiculous, because you could say that about any card with CMC of 6 or greater, including Sylvan Primordial and Primeval Titan. So, only blue is allowed to have good bombs? Is that because they can counter and/or gain control of everything up until those bombs come out? Oh wait, that doesn't sounds balanced at all.

On the card itself, Costing 7 mana makes the mana acceleration not very useful that late in the game, but can help you out of board-locked states. Reach is also incredibly relevant, especially in mono-green commander decks. Never wins games on it's own, as some 7-drops do, but is useful and balanced. 4/5.

Should not be banned in EDH. Just more love for control and aggro decks and more hate for blink and reanimator decks.

Why don't you just go ahead and ban forests? ...really disappointed about this...
I really wish you would ban the cards that break cards like this, I don't even play commander anymore because everyone thinks playing these soulless infinite combo and denying you the ability to play the game is fun, wizards must too, because they're allowing all these broken combos to keep ruining games. If your going to ban our answers to them, at least ban the problems, if your not going to fix the problems people are having, why impose a ban list on a casual format? Would you like to know how many lands I've ever destroyed with sylvan primordial? ZERO, yes ZERO, would you like to know how many DIFFERENT strangers land locked me or pulled a fast infinite combo? Eight different people, in the last two weeks, I get really sick of people tutoring for dead eye navigator and going off EVERY GAME. I'm not upset because you banned the primordial, I'm amazed at that you think it's alright to ignore these problems and ban answers for them. Recently unassembled all my decks, selling off cards, and waiting until you get some sense in your head about this ridiculous ban. If you don't ban cyclonic rift, dead eye navigator, or at least rites, I'm done with EDH, simply NOT FUN ANYMORE

it says it's banned in commander on this site https://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/100cardsingleton-commander
but not on gatherer in the Sets & Legality section. So what's the deal?
until i see it there i'm not believing that it's banned because there are plenty of other cards that are more "destructive" to EDH, like Stoneforge Mystic. effffff that