I love this card. Ive got it in my devour deck and it is amazing, drop it on a 4/4 or more and the rest of your devour creatures will never go hungry again
chumpblocked
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(4 votes)
Put this card on Hamletback Goliath and go nuts.
Mode
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(5 votes)
Works also nice with Intruder Alarm, which is blue, but cheaper than the Hamletback Goliath and can win the game on turn four already when you play this card.
Because of the big amount of creatures this card can create, it should work great with cip/etb effects in general.
And as gourd stated, this card is just great for providing a big base for sacrifice effects. Devour is just one great possibility, but there are certainly other useful cards that combine with that one. You could possibly create an uncommon type of Smokestack deck with this one.
Vinifera7
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(8 votes)
Surely there's lots of combo potential here. Primal Forcemage comes to mind. And don't forget about Pandemonium.
yay token ruling glitch (yes, they do count for the soul reaper effect)
Sakujo
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Kruce
Play this on a creature, then tap it to make the tokens. After you've made the tokens, play a creature with devour. Sure you have to sacrifice them at the end of your turn, but if you devour them first it won't matter.
it gives a creature a odd trample variant but i like it in edh, just put it on Lord of Extinction and then see if they can blocker 22 1/1s or you got a vary annoy block but its a aura so 4.0 to me(if it was a equipment it would be funner)
TPmanW
★★☆☆☆ (2.7/5.0)(3 votes)
A sigil captain combo perhaps? T: put 4 3/3 creatures into play for a turn? Anyone up for that?
Aaron_Forsythe
★★★★☆ (4.6/5.0)(25 votes)
Aaron’s Random Card Comment of the Day #55, 1/11/11
We almost talk ourselves out of cool stuff a lot.
When Shadowmoor was in design, and the “Q” mechanic (the untap symbol--see Pili-Pala for an example) was being run through its paces, the team theorized that the mechanic would be balanced in limited provided we didn’t put any cards in the set that granted “” abilities to creatures, as that would be too easy/good.
The thing is, that’s exactly what you want to do with Q creatures. As the lead developer, I was willing to challenge the assumption that such interactions would be “too good” with the hope that they would instead be merely “good” in addition to being fun and feeling powerful.
As you can see, the set ended up with this card as well as Power of Fire and Presence of Gond. The untap costs of the Q creatures all involve mana payments, preventing them from “going infinite” with these Auras (or with any of the many previous cards that grant “” abilities.)
The other interesting thing about Elemental Mastery is that it has what developer Noah Weil called the “Waylay problem” after the Urza’s Saga card that originally brought to light the problem with the “at end of turn” template. The trick to using cards like these is that if you cast/activate them after the end step has begun, the delayed trigger won’t happen until the beginning of the next end step on the following turn. So, under its printed wording, you could cast Waylay in your opponent’s end step, untap with the Knights, attack, and then exile them at the beginning of your end step. Distasteful errata handles that card, but you can do the same trick with Elemental Mastery by making a batch of tokens in your opponent’s end step, untapping, then making a second batch on your turn, essentially allowing you to attack with twice as many as the card seems to intend.
There are people in R&D that would rather we stop making cards that work like this altogether. I took a different approach, changing the “at end of turn” template to “at the beginning of the next end step,” which ideally makes it clear to players that things can happen during the end step after those effects trigger/resolve, hoping to clarify the weird interation as opposed to quashing it. It’s hard to tell for sure if that change has made these interactions easier to understand (if you have any anecdotal evidence, I’d love to hear it), and it may still be true that we should avoid cards like these completely.
But then again, I don’t want us to talk ourselves out of cool stuff if we don’t need to.
XDaragoX
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(5 votes)
Aaron_Forsythe: Shortly after the M10 rules changes, I built a Polymorph deck that used Thunderheads to make tokens at the end of other people's turns, and I had multiple conversations that went like this:
"But why would you do that? They'll just die immediately." "Well, see, what it actually means is that they go away at the beginning of the next end step." "Oh! Okay, gotcha."
At the time, many of these people still needed the stack explained to them whenever I tried something tricky. I'd say your solution has worked.
But this also works great with devour, say Predator Dragon or even hellion eruption. Also, if the enchanted creature is an artifact you can untap it with voltaic key and retap it spawning double the tokens. You could even use claws of valukut to boost the creatures power for even more craziness. :)
willpell
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(5 votes)
The "waylay problem" is one of the things I hate about Magic's rules. There used to be a version of the rules where if anything whatsoever happened during the end step, you'd have another end step, and you'd keep having end steps until people stopped trying to do things after the end of the turn. I miss that.
DarthParallax
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(4 votes)
Dear Mr. Forsythe-
you missed something huge and simple that makes the same 'don't stifle fun' point. I'm mildly interested in all that rulesy stuff you just said, because I'll read anything that talks about a card that MAKES YOU EMPEROR PALPATINE!
If you cast this spell, you must say 'Something Something Something Dark Side. Something Something Something Complete' or 'Feel the Power of the Dark Side' or something else similarly appropriate.
That's a rule.
Cheza
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
@ Aaron: Have you ever thought about changing the turn-rules instead, forbitting anything after the "end of turn" abilities trigger??? Who needs this anyway? It would be the same as casting spells before the untap step of a turn.
It's kind of surprising, to play a Topsy Turvy. With that card in play, "end of turn" effects happen first and the draw happens last. This feels odd at first, but "end of turn" effects become something like "until your next turn" abilities instead.
To get to the point, who would care, if "until the end of turn" effects would have a reading or "until the next turn" instead?
T1: Birds of Paradise T2: Wall of Razors T3: Elemental Mastery, make 4 dudes at end of opponent's turn T4: Attack, maybe play something inconspicuous, then pass the turn, block something, Glyph of Destruction, make 14 more dudes, and finally Fling for massive damage T5: Attack them to death more
Try this with Rockslide Elemental, Pyroclasm, Shared Animosity, and Gratuitous Violence. I use it in my newest red deck, and with the combinations I use, it is unbelievable.
One of the rare thing I would be scared of when playing an infinite combo with this kind of card would be a Batwing Brume or a Rakdos Charm. Damage from the number of creatures you have would turn you to smithereen.
Comments (33)
Because of the big amount of creatures this card can create, it should work great with cip/etb effects in general.
And as gourd stated, this card is just great for providing a big base for sacrifice effects.
Devour is just one great possibility, but there are certainly other useful cards that combine with that one.
You could possibly create an uncommon type of Smokestack deck with this one.
Elemental Mastery
Intruder Alarm
Hamletback Goliath
Blade of the bloodchief
yay token ruling glitch (yes, they do count for the soul reaper effect)
Play this on a creature, then tap it to make the tokens. After you've made the tokens, play a creature with devour. Sure you have to sacrifice them at the end of your turn, but if you devour them first it won't matter.
Also, Quest for the Goblin Lord or similar things make these SCARY.
We almost talk ourselves out of cool stuff a lot.
When Shadowmoor was in design, and the “Q” mechanic (the untap symbol--see Pili-Pala for an example) was being run through its paces, the team theorized that the mechanic would be balanced in limited provided we didn’t put any cards in the set that granted “
The thing is, that’s exactly what you want to do with Q creatures. As the lead developer, I was willing to challenge the assumption that such interactions would be “too good” with the hope that they would instead be merely “good” in addition to being fun and feeling powerful.
As you can see, the set ended up with this card as well as Power of Fire and Presence of Gond. The untap costs of the Q creatures all involve mana payments, preventing them from “going infinite” with these Auras (or with any of the many previous cards that grant “
The other interesting thing about Elemental Mastery is that it has what developer Noah Weil called the “Waylay problem” after the Urza’s Saga card that originally brought to light the problem with the “at end of turn” template. The trick to using cards like these is that if you cast/activate them after the end step has begun, the delayed trigger won’t happen until the beginning of the next end step on the following turn. So, under its printed wording, you could cast Waylay in your opponent’s end step, untap with the Knights, attack, and then exile them at the beginning of your end step. Distasteful errata handles that card, but you can do the same trick with Elemental Mastery by making a batch of tokens in your opponent’s end step, untapping, then making a second batch on your turn, essentially allowing you to attack with twice as many as the card seems to intend.
There are people in R&D that would rather we stop making cards that work like this altogether. I took a different approach, changing the “at end of turn” template to “at the beginning of the next end step,” which ideally makes it clear to players that things can happen during the end step after those effects trigger/resolve, hoping to clarify the weird interation as opposed to quashing it. It’s hard to tell for sure if that change has made these interactions easier to understand (if you have any anecdotal evidence, I’d love to hear it), and it may still be true that we should avoid cards like these completely.
But then again, I don’t want us to talk ourselves out of cool stuff if we don’t need to.
"But why would you do that? They'll just die immediately."
"Well, see, what it actually means is that they go away at the beginning of the next end step."
"Oh! Okay, gotcha."
At the time, many of these people still needed the stack explained to them whenever I tried something tricky. I'd say your solution has worked.
But this also works great with devour, say Predator Dragon or even hellion eruption. Also, if the enchanted creature is an artifact you can untap it with voltaic key and retap it spawning double the tokens. You could even use claws of valukut to boost the creatures power for even more craziness. :)
you missed something huge and simple that makes the same 'don't stifle fun' point. I'm mildly interested in all that rulesy stuff you just said, because I'll read anything that talks about a card that MAKES YOU EMPEROR PALPATINE!
If you cast this spell, you must say 'Something Something Something Dark Side. Something Something Something Complete' or 'Feel the Power of the Dark Side' or something else similarly appropriate.
That's a rule.
Have you ever thought about changing the turn-rules instead, forbitting anything after the "end of turn" abilities trigger??? Who needs this anyway? It would be the same as casting spells before the untap step of a turn.
It's kind of surprising, to play a Topsy Turvy. With that card in play, "end of turn" effects happen first and the draw happens last. This feels odd at first, but "end of turn" effects become something like "until your next turn" abilities instead.
To get to the point, who would care, if "until the end of turn" effects would have a reading or "until the next turn" instead?
It's also decent with high-powered defenders, like (the ever-breakable) Wall of Blood, Rage Nimbus, or even Woolly Razorback. You can block with them and then activate Elemental Mastery during your opponent's end step. Also, because of that, Glyph of Destruction can be hilarious.
T1: Birds of Paradise
T2: Wall of Razors
T3: Elemental Mastery, make 4 dudes at end of opponent's turn
T4: Attack, maybe play something inconspicuous, then pass the turn, block something, Glyph of Destruction, make 14 more dudes, and finally Fling for massive damage
T5: Attack them to death more
For the sake of compilation, other good/broken combinations:
Black Carriage
Grimgrin, Corpse-Born
Intruder Alarm
Hamletback Goliath
Sigil Captain
Primal Forcemage
In the Web of War
Pandemonium
Altar Golem with at least two other creatures among all players
Soliton, ideally with Phyrexian Altar
Pili-Pala, very preferably with Ashnod's Altar or Mana Echoes
Quest for the Goblin Lord, with goblins or Xenograft
Predator Dragon
Hellion Eruption