hey, im thinking of building a red blue deck with mana echoes and pentavus/myr matrix + fireball. however, i would like to be able to search for mana echoes in case i dont draw it quickly in the beginning, anyone have any idea how i could do this?
Heh, combine this with Spawnsire of Ulamog and you have the mana required to play its big power in the same turn. Infinite mana for the win. Getting all your Eldrazi spells and creatures out by turn 5-6 should make for fun casual, multiplayer games, best part is that Spawnsire doesn't come with any special cast into play only power so cheating it out doesn't lose you anything.
Rasel
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I can't wait to use this with the Eldrazi Spawn "ritual" cards such as Birthing Brood and Skittering Invasion...it's easy to put tons of colorless mana to use on Eldrazi! A single Skittering Invasion, provided that you control zero eldrazi before it resolves, will generate 20 mana just off the Mana Echoes triggers (with 5 more latent mana in the Spawn). That's enough to cast any of the Eldrazi titans, or even to go off with Spawnsire of Ulamog.
stille_nacht
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
now that mana burn is gone, use this with sliver queen, and you have yourself and infinite amount of slivers
Andrew7588
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I love this card for the hilarity it creates in tribal decks.
@Rasel - Actually, if there are no other eldrazi spawn on the table, casting Skittering Invasion you get 25 mana - 5 instances of 5 mana. The rulings say that you count the creature itself. So you've spent 7, got a net gain of 18 in the pool & 5 stored on the table.
However for real giggles, you go Turn 2 Nest Invader, Turn 3 Awakening Zone, Turn 4 Mana Echoes, Turn 5 Cryptic Gateway, tap 2 eldrazi spawn, put some eldrazi drones into play, then use them to put spawnsire of Ulamog into play, use its 4 mana ability to put 2 spawn into play, get more mana than you used, repeat until you have as many tokens as you want, then use the 20 mana ability to wish in any eldrazi you want & go nuts.
There are few things as hilarious as watching the 6 other people you're playing realize that 2 eldrazi spawn & 2 obscure onslaught cards have just killed them all on turn 5.
Excel
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(3 votes)
Andrew: You actually don't need the Nest Invader, Awakening Zone, or Cryptic Gateway. You can just play Emrakul's Hatcher on turn 5 for 16 mana from the Echoes and then play Spawnsire and go off with it!
It's so easy to do it feels wrong. :)
channelblaze
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Note that whenever a creature ETB under your opponents control, if you control creatures w/ it's type, you get to add mana! That's one of my favorite parts about this card. That, and the fact that it just screams PLEASE GO INFINITE!!!
Like Intruder Alarm this makes an infinite combo with that one card. Um what was it? Oh yeah. All of them
raptorjesus69
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Surprised this combo hasn't been mentioned before:
With this, Sprout Swarm and four saprolings in play, you can get infinite saprolings and infinite colorless mana. Play sprout swarm with its buyback cost paid, get 4 mana from Mana Echoes, play sprout swarm again by using the 4 mana and convoking the saproling you just put into play for {G} (convoking does ignore summoning sickness). Repeat the process indefinitely, gaining additional colorless mana each time.
blurrymadness
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(3 votes)
This forms a little infinite saproling/mana combo with Sprout Swarm.
If you have 3 Saps and 3 mana you tap for 2, tap 3 saps, add a sap to the battlefield: this adds 3 mana to your pool Tap the one mana, use the 3 in your pool, tap the sap this adds 4 mana to your pool tap the sap, use the 4 mana this adds up to 5 mana to your pool tap the sap... ... ...
Just gets better/easier the more saps/mana you start with. Can pull this combo as early as Turn 3 with the right setup. Keep in mind it requires saps. Don't try it with elves or something..
26376
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
The ruling says that you get to count the creature card itself in determining the bonus mana, but what if multiple creatures enter at the same time? For example (assuming you control no artifact creatures), when you play Master's Call, would you get or ? Or if you play Howl of the Night Pack with 7 Forest on the table (and no other Wolves), do you get or (or some number in-between, like )?
Assuming you have no other Faeries out, milling 7 creatures is enough to completely deck an opponent, and each time you activate the ability, you get a bigger return the next time. once these two are out it'll be a pretty straight forward win in a free for all, and you'll get to see every body starting to hate on the mono-players.
DarkbladeWraith
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
As if there weren't enough reasons to love Mycoloth already....
Dr_Pants
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Elephant Resurgence with this gets you n^n mana, where n is the number of players for . It doesn't matter if the elephants come in as 0/0's, you'd still get the mana.
Piconoe
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I think it's safe to say that this card is made of pure sex, and should be a staple for a lot of tribes.
Especially Slivers.
There is a RIDICULOUS amount of stuff you can pull off with "Queen Echoes" (as I call it), Heart Sliver (for a select few), and 1 single Sliver:
Need more life? Darkheart Sliver. Now you have ∞ Life. Need to draw more? Mnemonic Sliver. Now you can draw for free until you want to stop. Need to tap everything all opponents have? Telekinetic Sliver. Now they can't even get mana from lands. Need to destroy everything all opponents have? Necrotic Sliver. Now no one has a field but you. Need to make every opponent discard their entire hand? Mindwhip Sliver. Now no one has a hand but you. Need to burn everything to the ground? Acidic Sliver. Now everyone is at 0 but you. Need to mill everyone? Screeching Sliver. Now end your turn and you win. Need more Slivers? Sliver Overlord. Now have a Gemhide and you can play every Sliver from your deck.
Cubozoan
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
It always warms my heart to find a new card to combo with my perennial favorites: Genesis Chamber and Myr Servitor.
Of course, as everyone's pointed out, this card is bananas with pretty much anything that makes tokens: Elves? I would have thought you'd have enough mana anyways, but sure! Awakening Zone and other spawnmakers? The more ramp the merrier! Orochi Hatchery? Why yes, I'd love to get my mana right back, plus some more! Sprout Swarm? Hilarious! Ulasht, the Hate Seed EDH? HILARIOUS! The list goes on and on. There's no two ways about it: Mana Echoes is bonkers.
apparently nobody knows math. when the first creature enters the battlefield that is one mana, when the second creature enters the battlefield that is two more mana for a total of three. when the third creature enters the battlefield that is three more mana for a total of six. 1=1 2=3 3=6 4=10 this is called a geometric series. completly different than polynomial function like x^2. the actual formula is (n+1)*n/2 where n is the total number of creatures that entered the battlefield that shared a creature type assuming there were none to begin with. To figure out how many you get if there are already creatures on the battlefield that share creature types with it as it enters the battlefield, then you use the same formula with n being the final number of creatures sharing a creature type then subtract the number from the formula with n being the starting number of creatures sharing the same creature type.
(((f+1)*f)-((s+1)*s)) 2
with f being final and s being initial creatures that share the same creature type.
Jova
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@pryoMTG, Geometric series are exponential sometimes, this specific effect happens to be exponential. Geometric series and exponential functions are not mutually exclusive.
But for real though, this card is incredible. Definitely going in my Marath Deck.
SeaThief
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
With 5 white mana and 2 colorless, Increasing Devotion could create 15 tokens and leave 168 colorless mana in your mana pool to do something with. Personally, I vote for cycling a Decree of Justice or cracking a Genesis Wave.
EDIT: @pyroMTG: We know the math, you obviously don't know how cards interact with this one. With something that brings multiple creatures onto the battlefield at the same time (whether it be actual cards or tokens), the creatures all put triggers from Mana Echoes on the stack. As the abilities resolve, it checks the creature types to determine how much mana is added. By this point, all of the creatures are on the battlefield together and thusly count towards each others Mana Echoes ability. 5 soldier creatures entering an empty battlefield under your control puts 5 ME triggers on the stack, each adding 5 mana upon resolution (barring some removal) for a total of 25 mana.
Imagine chaining four Alliance of Arms in a 4 player game with a single echoes out.
Assume your mana pool starts at , and that your opponents don't help.
Play first for . Everyone is at 1 soldier, and you have Play second for . Everyone gets 3 more, 4 total, and you get 3*3+3*3*4=45 mana Play third for 45. Everyone gets 45 more, 49 total, and you get 45*48+45*3*49=8775 mana Play fourth for 8775. Everyone gets 8775 more, 8824 total, and you get 8775*8823+8775*3*8824 = 309,713,625 mana
If you are crazy enough, do the calc for 4 mana echoes.
Explanation of the math using the third iteration: 45*48: you get 45 creatures that trigger it for n-1, where 'n' is your number of creatures, since they won't count themselves, or 48. 45*3*49: 45 creatures times 3 players come in to trigger the echoes. you have 49 creatures, so they each trigger for 49.
I'm Surprised no one mentioned Myr Matrix - Perfect if you want to stick to one colour (in this case red for the mana echos) and its indestructible so its harder to remove, fits in with the curve nicely to. You can get it out earlier if you play Cloudpost and Glimmerpost.
TheGigiBeast
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Infinite with Sliver Queen. Also cool in my riku deck, because the theme of this deck is creatures that copy themselves (loke Spawnwrithe).
Comments (41)
@Rasel - Actually, if there are no other eldrazi spawn on the table, casting Skittering Invasion you get 25 mana - 5 instances of 5 mana. The rulings say that you count the creature itself. So you've spent 7, got a net gain of 18 in the pool & 5 stored on the table.
However for real giggles, you go Turn 2 Nest Invader, Turn 3 Awakening Zone, Turn 4 Mana Echoes, Turn 5 Cryptic Gateway, tap 2 eldrazi spawn, put some eldrazi drones into play, then use them to put spawnsire of Ulamog into play, use its 4 mana ability to put 2 spawn into play, get more mana than you used, repeat until you have as many tokens as you want, then use the 20 mana ability to wish in any eldrazi you want & go nuts.
There are few things as hilarious as watching the 6 other people you're playing realize that 2 eldrazi spawn & 2 obscure onslaught cards have just killed them all on turn 5.
It's so easy to do it feels wrong. :)
Mirror Entity
and don't forget
Forbidden Orchard
With this, Sprout Swarm and four saprolings in play, you can get infinite saprolings and infinite colorless mana. Play sprout swarm with its buyback cost paid, get 4 mana from Mana Echoes, play sprout swarm again by using the 4 mana and convoking the saproling you just put into play for {G} (convoking does ignore summoning sickness). Repeat the process indefinitely, gaining additional colorless mana each time.
If you have 3 Saps and 3 mana you tap for 2, tap 3 saps, add a sap to the battlefield:
this adds 3 mana to your pool
Tap the one mana, use the 3 in your pool, tap the sap
this adds 4 mana to your pool
tap the sap, use the 4 mana
this adds up to 5 mana to your pool
tap the sap... ... ...
Just gets better/easier the more saps/mana you start with. Can pull this combo as early as Turn 3 with the right setup. Keep in mind it requires saps. Don't try it with elves or something..
Assuming you have no other Faeries out, milling 7 creatures is enough to completely deck an opponent, and each time you activate the ability, you get a bigger return the next time. once these two are out it'll be a pretty straight forward win in a free for all, and you'll get to see every body starting to hate on the mono-players.
Especially Slivers.
There is a RIDICULOUS amount of stuff you can pull off with "Queen Echoes" (as I call it), Heart Sliver (for a select few), and 1 single Sliver:
Need more life? Darkheart Sliver. Now you have ∞ Life.
Need to draw more? Mnemonic Sliver. Now you can draw for free until you want to stop.
Need to tap everything all opponents have? Telekinetic Sliver. Now they can't even get mana from lands.
Need to destroy everything all opponents have? Necrotic Sliver. Now no one has a field but you.
Need to make every opponent discard their entire hand? Mindwhip Sliver. Now no one has a hand but you.
Need to burn everything to the ground? Acidic Sliver. Now everyone is at 0 but you.
Need to mill everyone? Screeching Sliver. Now end your turn and you win.
Need more Slivers? Sliver Overlord. Now have a Gemhide and you can play every Sliver from your deck.
Of course, as everyone's pointed out, this card is bananas with pretty much anything that makes tokens: Elves? I would have thought you'd have enough mana anyways, but sure! Awakening Zone and other spawnmakers? The more ramp the merrier! Orochi Hatchery? Why yes, I'd love to get my mana right back, plus some more! Sprout Swarm? Hilarious! Ulasht, the Hate Seed EDH? HILARIOUS! The list goes on and on. There's no two ways about it: Mana Echoes is bonkers.
4/5 Stars
1=1
2=3
3=6
4=10
this is called a geometric series. completly different than polynomial function like x^2. the actual formula is (n+1)*n/2 where n is the total number of creatures that entered the battlefield that shared a creature type assuming there were none to begin with. To figure out how many you get if there are already creatures on the battlefield that share creature types with it as it enters the battlefield, then you use the same formula with n being the final number of creatures sharing a creature type then subtract the number from the formula with n being the starting number of creatures sharing the same creature type.
(((f+1)*f)-((s+1)*s))
2
with f being final and s being initial creatures that share the same creature type.
But for real though, this card is incredible. Definitely going in my Marath Deck.
EDIT: @pyroMTG: We know the math, you obviously don't know how cards interact with this one. With something that brings multiple creatures onto the battlefield at the same time (whether it be actual cards or tokens), the creatures all put triggers from Mana Echoes on the stack. As the abilities resolve, it checks the creature types to determine how much mana is added. By this point, all of the creatures are on the battlefield together and thusly count towards each others Mana Echoes ability. 5 soldier creatures entering an empty battlefield under your control puts 5 ME triggers on the stack, each adding 5 mana upon resolution (barring some removal) for a total of 25 mana.
Assume your mana pool starts at
Play first for
Play second for
Play third for 45
Play fourth for 8775
If you are crazy enough, do the calc for 4 mana echoes.
Explanation of the math using the third iteration:
45*48: you get 45 creatures that trigger it for n-1, where 'n' is your number of creatures, since they won't count themselves, or 48.
45*3*49: 45 creatures times 3 players come in to trigger the echoes. you have 49 creatures, so they each trigger for 49.
Edit: oh gosh, just thought of Djinn Illuminatus.