This is one of the harder walkers to evaluate, and they are already hard. As it stands it seems very strong in control mirrors, but outside of that its hard to say.
Continue
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(5 votes)
@Sel3l3e: Good in control.
ButlerOfBolas
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(11 votes)
You dare to categorize Ashiok under your puny five star rating system? Ashiok is displeased. Ashiok is a 6/5.
BuffJittePLZ
★☆☆☆☆ (1.6/5.0)(4 votes)
Few plainswalkers can be played fast and are relevant threats so early. Add great art and you have a card people will be trading to get for a long time.
ShatterPalm
★★★★☆ (4.3/5.0)(13 votes)
This is what planeswalkers should be: interesting and completely unique.
d-101
★☆☆☆☆ (1.8/5.0)(4 votes)
3 CMC is amazing for this kind of power. +2: She can potentially remove your opponent's biggest threat from the game, if it is on the top of their deck. Or she could work to manascrew an opponent, or more likely, just take away some of their tools. -X: Her true power lies here. Assuming your opponent cannot deal with her after you first use her +2, she can potentially bring in a cmc 5 creature (and there are not many creatures that cost six or more mana in this set, so she will hit a lot of viable targets). -10: This ability is good, but hard to evaluate. In the late game, it will help to clear out your opponents' hands and limit their options. In two player games, depending on the deck your opponent is running, there might not be much to exile from their hand. This ability is highly situational in its success.
Her first two abilities work perfectly together, and she is an early to mid game threat, with staying power. 5/5 Plus, flavorwise, she is awesome.
Anyway, I'd love one in foil. I have way too few walkers in foil, and the artwork of this one is fantastic. Like a creature out of a Guillermo del Toro movie!
By the way, the German version of this card seems to confirm that Ashiok is MALE!
MrMonday
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(10 votes)
Awesome art. One of the cooler planeswalkers printed recently (top spot still goes to Vraska for me, but that's neither here nor there).
However, I half-wish that his +1 discarded the top two cards, not exiled. Exiling is more permanent and will probably deal more damage in the long run, but the potential of running him in a Dimir deck would have been awesome.
Oh, well. 4/5 for a good, cheap planeswalker.
Yozuk
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(4 votes)
I don't care if this card becomes a casual only card. I want it. Tezzeret is an amazing planeswalker and I really like both versions of him. But he doesn't quite fit the blue/black decks I personally like to build. Ashiok on the other hand! This thing is fun, and its abilities work so well with each other.
Arachibutyrophobia
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
is this a girl?
chainsmoker
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
and my opponent does not play creatures....
SyntheticDreamer
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Jace, Memory Adept's best friend? Not sure what his/her role is yet, but seems like it'll be pretty decent in control decks. Since the ultimate is rather underwhelming, it'd be hilarious to get an Ashen Rider with the -X ability. You'd have to protect him/her until s/he gets that many counters, though...
DarthParallax
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(9 votes)
:/
1. it's a DIMIR PLANESWALKER, which I think EVERYONE was eager and anxious for as soon as Jace Beleren was spoiled in LORWYN x.x
somehow, people seem to have partially forgotten that they just wanted a U/B pw no matter what it did. in other words, Walkers have been around so long that....well...we know a little bit how to evaluate them x( So, we actually DO care what it does more than we would if it had shown up earlier :( I guarantee, if this had been a Scars of Mirrodin Planeswalker, people would have loved it a lot more, just because that would be longer ago and people would be less certain of criticizing it and more focused on the Pure Vorthosness.
2. But...we know just enough about Walkers now that we can see, as cool as this is Vorthos wise, it's got some important downsides :/ It can't consistently protect itself. It's a bit too awkward and costly to 'make' or 'steal' creatures with this. The two abilities are not JUST "synergistic" the second ability is HIGHLY dependent on the first. And it asks for a SPECIFIC converted mana cost. It may have a +2, but it doesn't have a way to interact with the board and that is really dangerous because it has 3 ''toughness'' and really needs every point of loyalty it can get to pour into that 2nd ability and leave toughness left over to survive attacks and spells.
Even with Reanimator actually being a Real Deck in Standard (though it might be getting a lot weaker...we will see what happens there by Journey into Nyx) I somewhat doubt that you will be using that -10 in Standard. You'll race up to it with the +2....and against a Reanimator deck, you'd probably rather just -X something good from them to kill them instead of 'sac my walker to cast Wrath of God on your graveyard.....that you will fill up again'
3. I'm sure it's a cool Walker and all, and the more Control oriented your match is the better it'll do. I actually REALLY like the ultimate, because WHEN it matters, it's a fairly huge thing, and it doesn't have to matter every game. Much like Jace 1.0's. IN a game where you're afraid of Milling, it's a big deal, but as Jace, Memory Adept shows, powerful milling can be pushed quite a lot more than that and remain 'good but fair'. It's not very insane to mill tons of cards in a single turn, it only really helps in Mill or Reanimator. Taking out graveyards is 'a big deal Where Relevant', taking them ALL out makes this a threat absolutely desirable to activate in Commander.
Basically, I see this getting a lot more abuse in casual play than sanctioned Constructed Events. UNLESS I am completely mis-evaluating the difficulty of getting that -X to work smoothly. This COULD be the Dimir Birthing Pod in Modern. :P Maybe?
My conclusion is that it's almost awful in a vacuum but in the context of ''you're allowed to have more than one Walker in your deck'', there are LOTS of good "Fighter" walkers you can use as frontline protection for this ''Mage'' Walker :)
Jace 1 + Liliana 2 + Ashiok 1 in the same deck, for example, sounds like a pretty great plan to me X.X
I don't think most of you realize just how good Ashiok's third ability really is. On its own, it's decent, if somewhat narrow. However, the third ability allows him MANY more cards for his second ability. I'm seriously considering this for my Grixis control deck. Against control, think of how good Nephalia Drownyard was. Against aggro, since I have plenty of burn and destroy, I have lots of good choices as far as dropping fatties with this guy.
I really like this card. 4/5
Twilly05
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(7 votes)
I think Ashiok will be quite the beast in this set with all the scry running around? Opponents will be super fearful (once they realize) to put the card that they really want on top of their deck, as it'll soon be exiled. I'm not sure people realize quite yet how useful this guy will be. Oh, put your god on top of your library with scry?
I'm gonna just go ahead and exile the crap outa him/her.
RAV0004
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(7 votes)
Ashiok may not be a woman, but whatever WoTC says, the artist sure as hell drew it that way.
Dabok
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
As some have said, this one is pretty hard to evaluate.
Now as a casual player I definitely won't talk about constructed, but he does seem strong in casual play. Other than facing aggro decks, he seems to do quite some work quite fast. You drop him on turn 3, immediately start removing cards and hit the -X as early as next turn (if there's something interesting), even though I'd personally do a few more +2s just to make him bigger and have a higher probabilty of getting a nice creature.
Not sure about the power level, but I can say that it's looking fairly strong.
Cygore
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Even if you just keep using his first ability he's good for mill for how early you can drop him.
SarcasmElemental
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Doesnt effect me as I run forbidden crypt in every deck I own. Ever.
Feralsymphony
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(14 votes)
Ashiok does not bow to your pathetic concept of "gender".
progenitus5
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(9 votes)
apparently, someon easked MaRo if Ashiok was a man or a woman he replied, "Maybe, but Ashiok doesn't like being labeled" he's just *** awesome
Coralus
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
THIS is the lowest rated Mythic in Theros? I would have thought Ashen Rider to be a shoe-in for the bottom.
Tiggurix
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(5 votes)
@Legendxp: Androgynous means "of both sexes". I think the word you were looking for was "asexual".
Arachnos
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Burnt Elsen, anyone? Anyone?
OrgasmandTea
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This might seem like a silly question, but do you exile the cards face up or face down, i.e. will your opponent know what you've exiled? Because if not, this card becomes even more awesome. It's not only mechanically better if your opponent doesn't know what he/she is missing, but it just FEELS more B/U.
Salient
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
They might as well have said "-10: Wait, why did you keep reading?"
It gives you more options for the -X ability, at the expense of spending the loyalty points that you need to actually use those options.
Hepatizon
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(9 votes)
Thing that gets me is that this Planeswalker is just cheap. It's not like the ridiculous casting cost of ones like Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker, it can pop out in the first couple turns and start making a mess.
The third ability is so laughable that it almost doesn't bear mention. Its utility compared to the second ability price-wise is negligible. You could be putting their Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, or Progenitus into play for that kind of investment, not to mention the army of other less expensive creatures you've been exile milling this whole time.
cotf1692
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It probably won't come up as much as I'd enjoy, but he can work with Lazav, if a creature you nightmareify dies, it goes to your opponent's graveyard, so Lazav still transforms. It is nice to get a card that has a chance to impact standard, yet still has cool interactions in casual play
"I asked what his preferred pronouns were. He/she asked me which of my creatures would be able to kill me most."
"Don't worry about checking your privilege. Ashiok will gladly check it for you." *Proceeds to screw your mind*
"Die, cis scum... Or go mad... or serve me. There's quite a few things cis scum can do, really."
Legendxp
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Tiggurix - Yes, of course. I must of misunderstood the meaning of the word. I'll admit, this doesn't happen often.
Hollowing
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It is too early to tell if we will see Ashitok as a major player in Standard. It is a good card, but it is no Liliana of the Veil or Jace, the Mind Sculptor. I wouldn't pay $25 for him according to Star City Games in other words.
Circeus
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(5 votes)
Another reason we have a hard time evaluating this guy is that we are nt sure how well he'll interact with Scry. Remember: if an opponent uses Voyage's End, Prescient Chimera, Omenspeaker, Aqueous Form etc. and you have Ashiok, scry becomes useless because they cannot afford to leave their best cards on top of their deck.
Megadog
★★☆☆☆ (2.7/5.0)(3 votes)
@Tiggurix: I can't see the original comment, so forgive me if I misunderstand the situation, but if Legendxp said Ashiok is androgynous, he is correct. It means you can't determine their gender, not that they are both. Asexual means they have no gender, which seems to be Ashiok's gender identity ((s)he doesn't actually want to be defined as either gender.) but (s)he is still androgynous.
EDIT: Player's guide to Theros says "He". Case closed.
FaceClaimer
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I have been waiting for a walker in {U}{B} with mill abilities for a while now. I've playtested this guy in multiple different {U}{B} control and even aggro shells. I have done everything i can to make this guy work, i really have. I rushed in and got 2 of him on prerelease day as fast as i could and i immediately went to work making a deck for him.
guys. i'm sorry. i'm really, really sorry. I weep to say these words: he's only good in limited.
i've done everything i can to make him work. literally, everything. Proliferate, counterspells, murder shells, everything. i even ran him with DOUBLING SEASON. He literally requires Gideon, Champion of Justice levels of loyalty to make a real impact at all in the game. every time i have played him, he has died within 1 turn of being out on the board. i watch my board state go backwards every time he is played. my opponent drops 2 creatures and swings at him putting him to 1 loyalty. what can i steal at this point? a 1-drop creature. just a 1-drop. and i lose him immediately for doing that. is it worth 3 mana on turn 3 to exile 3 cards off their library and steal a 1-drop while the opponent gets to swing in for 6+ damage and burn out my creatures?
the short answer? no. and it PAINS me to say that. it KILLS me to say that he's not good. it hurts so bad. in {U}{B}, i'd rather run Psychic Strike or hell, i'd even run Nightveil Specter over him. I was actually noticeably upset in my friend group after i tried using him and failed game after game after game. Casual, Standard, Modern, EVEN LEGACY GAMES. he didn't hold up in any of them. the ONLY format he held his own in was limited.
In limited, he is amazing. just +2 them to DEATH. you can do it. i did it 3 TIMES at Prerelease. 3 TIMES!!! Mill out by NOTHING but him. you can do it. but nowhere but limited.
I'm so sorry. My Dimir Brothers and sisters, in my eyes, from my experience, we are still waiting for our true leader that hides in the Blind Eternities. until they reveal themself to us however, I'll be waiting with baited breath.
Umbric
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Ashiok is by far one of the more powerful planeswalkers to come out recently. She/He can really put a hold on aggro decks with that +2 and -X. Also don't forget, standard is now a Scry heavy format, with Scavenge out for the Golgari decks and Scavenging ooze decks.
Also speaking out of standard, can you imagine your opponents face when you steal their nice $200 tarmogoyf or Dark Confidant?
His/Her ultimate however is trash and not really that relevant but does work well with the -X ability but still, -10? That's 3 turns after he/she comes out, and with all this burn i.e Burn, Boros Charm, Searing Spear, Magma Jet, I don't see him/her living too much longer after that.
Still, amazing card, can be game changing granted you can protect it, but still not Liliana of the Veil given they both start at 3 and have a 3cmc. But definitely deserves a 4/5
ThisisSakon
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(3 votes)
If anyone has doubts about his power level, use her with Undercity Informer. Don't see him as a creature stealer, look at her as a way to rip through an opponent's library faster.
Plus, with the Informer, you can grab anything - no matter how useless - and turn it into extra milling
Doom_Lich
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
He's mostly a casual walker, but that's no mark of shame out of my mouth. He looks fun to play and hell he might find a deck in the future. It's been brought up in recent past that he's a pretty good walker in the control mirror. His timer counting up is a threat, he grabs Omenseers for days, and he's mostly safe in that mirror, barring Hero's Downfall.
Anyway, if you're doubting his ultimate's worth, at the very least I can tell you his ultimate is better than nearly anything you could get for -10 from him in EDH. Identity Crisis is an absolutely damning card in EDH that barring the most incredible board position takes you out of the game if it resolves. This guy Crisis' all your opponents and if you have any spare loyalty he can start building up to cast their hands and graveyards.
Volafortis
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Interesting card, and interesting character. 5/5
TheShadow344
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Going in my Damia, Sage of Stone EDH mill deck. I don't mind that it's -X and -10 abilities will hardly be used - repeatable "mill" is good.
Buddy pulled this in his sealed pool and he managed to drop this on turn 3 and then proceeded to 'mill' me down to about 7 cards (of 43). I managed to attack it enough times to kill it, but only because I was able to draft a strong collection of blue and/or white fliers that he could never block. Most intense sealed match I've played to date.
oxydus
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@ThisisSakon i see what you did there.
Boroski
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
people are saying he is OK. But now he is in almost every esper and dimir control list he he went from 17 to 30 dollars. coincidence? I think not.
SAUS3
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(3 votes)
@Umbric What? Identity crisis off your planeswalker can't win you the game? If you've kept it alive long enough to use the -10, that is game over. They no longer have a hand, and you probably have the board tied up enough already, so they have no options and are probably already losing.
Requiring -10 is fair considering that it has a +2, starts at 3 loyalty, and only costs 3 mana. If I recall correctly, liliana of the veil was ****ing broken, and you shouldn't bother comparing it to this.
The real power from this card is obvious. It comes out early, and you pass the turn with 5 counters on it. That puts it out of range of even boros charm. If it survives the turn, you can sit back and more loyalty on this guy while you cast removal, or you can put some pressure on by getting a free creature in addition to your removal or keep your mana open to counter whatever they try to do.
The weakness of this card is not that it's ultimate ability costs a lot and that the card is not broken like liliana of the veil, it is that when it hits play, it has pretty much no impact. The only thing you could do that's only mildly annoying is mess up your opponent's scry from the previous turn.
Ike38
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You will see so many red or blue spells in Type2 such as Magma Jet or Dissolve . No need to mention all the scry lands that are being played in so many deck. This guy is the Anti-Scry planeswalker. He just makes all Scry cards to nothing.
BTW, you might already know that he perfectly fits with Azorius Charm and Time Ebb . Make sure put 4 Charms or 0-a few Time Ebb in your deck so that your stealth could be more precise.
Very powerful PW + Incredible art = 5/5 for me.
JimmyNoobPlayer
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Thrown off by the gray skin and facelessness, I thought Ashiok was a Returned from Theros, but I was way off. Returned probably can't become planeswalkers, and while they don't have faces, they still have HEADS. Ashiok isn't wearing a mask!
arise_shine
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(5 votes)
Very interesting card. Ashiok is Magic's first officially gender-neutral planeswalker. And what race is Ashiok supposed to be? Sort of humanoid, but .. Ashiok has no eyes or forehead. Just those smoky horns.
So how does this card play out? Pretty impressive from what I've seen so far. It's pretty scary seeing this card drop on turn three, go to five loyalty, and flip over my Blood Baron of Vizkopa. I find myself scrambling to deal with this thing just so I don't have to die to my own creature. Now that's a nightmare! But even if Ashiok doesn't come down until later, it's another thing that can get out of hand if it's not dealt with.
Cool card.
Cyberium
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Is Ashiok the first planeswalker that doesn't protruding the card box?
Kashi70
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I see Ashiok as more entertaining than totally practical. The Planeswalker formula I prefer is:
+X = Help you to have a better board position or defend itself: Sorin puts out lifelink dudes, Chandra deals a bit of damage, Jace offers card advantage (typically.) Ashiok merely exiles only three cards from an opponents library that might have potential your next turn.
-X = You're in a tight spot, so use its middle ability to help you out a little more: Ajani Vengeant performs a Lightning Helix to kill something and heal you a little, Ral bolts something, Garruk either puts out a beast or has you draw some cards. Ashiok can't even use this ability when he first comes out (budum tss) to the battlefield, and he's not guaranteed to ever use it successfully.
-A lot = You've worked hard to keep your Planeswalker alive, so here is something really cool that could very well win you the game. Start exiling stuff with Venser, turn somebody's hand into their library with SuperJace, or even Tibalt steals everybody's creatures and beats them up with them. Ashiok exiles everyone's hands and graveyards but yours. Cool, but unless you already have a good board position, it may not really get you anywhere.
Again, Ahiok is cool to play with, but most practical if you build around him, much like Tezzeret.
StrayWanderer
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The bottom effect is not completely negligible, the other day I managed to mill out my friend by ultimating Jace Beleren and then I exiled their hand and graveyard, leaving them with seven lands and a baleful strix, a creature which came after a massive black sun's zenith.
So the effect is relatively worthless, but the first two effects (and the CMC) are good enough to put Ashiok as a two of in my grixis and esper decks.
MrSunso
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card is so good with Azorius Charm. You charm their creature, then on your turn exile it with Ashiok. Did this at an FNM on an Obzedat, and my opponent couldn't recover.
Play Nightmare with Ashiok. GENIUS. Actually, not a good idea unless you have a lot of Swamps and simply couldn't be arsed to hardcast it.
DoorDie
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(4 votes)
It's funny how many people here think of Ashiok as a casual walker when it made 13th place at Pro Tour Theros (3 copies maindeck).
Ashiok wasn't designed like your typical planeswalker (neither was Gideon Jura), which is why the standard metrics make it look silly and casual. The problem people have with it is that there is no guarantee of value; its abilities must be sequenced.
But it is powerful, this is evident if you've ever pulled it in limited. Your opponent must answer it, or it will drop their creatures, steal their clutch 1-of's, and disrupt their attempts to smooth out draws with scry. The ultimate is there only as an alternative to the -X, against decks with no creatures.
Decks must have inevitability and defense to get value out of Ashiok (i.e. control), and sometimes it will eat a Hero's Downfall/Dreadbore while providing basically nothing. But this happens to creatures and other planeswalkers as well. It's no Liliana of the Veil, but then what is am I right?
NoIHavent
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I love this card. U/B is my favorite color combo, it comes down super early, it can tank damage really easily, and even make its own chumps if you need to. And the ult. The ult is back breaking. It's an uncounterable, free Identity Crisis. Control just can't deal. Grave yard decks (slow ones, but still) also can't deal. I was playing a 3 player game yesterday, just ticking up Ashiok. Got to 11, then used the ult. This cleared out all of the counter magic I was worried about dealing with, and allowed me to drop Nicol Bolas, planeswalker and just win. Yeah, that's casual, but still, it turned 3 player free for all into archenemy, /and I won./ That's some serious power. And of course, the longer the game goes, the better Ashiok is, because you can grind out their deck, making milling a serious threat, and keep dropping creatures in the process. 5/5 for great design, balance, and flavor.
Syrtees
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(3 votes)
It took me longer than I'd like to admit to figure out that he was in fact a GUY.
Totema
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Really, Ashiok is best described as an... it. Seriously, read about it. It's hard to tell if Ashiok is a living being at all, or instead some primordial force given form.
WanderinWolf
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card is almost too good. The only real downside is that it dies to Abrupt Decay so easily..... Stomps control decks, awesome against aggro..... Counters scry......
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card will be used or not for its 2nd ability. The last ability takes to long even though it is game if it resolves. The first ability doesnt do much besides stop scry.
blurrymadness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It's nice to see +2 on a walker again, though I wish it could target either library..
Dryten
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
shane kelsey
Stinga
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Here is the full art for Ashiok. Very nice. Notice how it floats. http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/ur/ur276_ashioknightmareweaver.jpg
mdakw576
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It's not a particularly good walker, but it's only 3 mana with a +2 ability. That's pretty hard to kill. Against aggro it takes some time to do anything, but if they attack it then that's "lifegain", and if they ignore it then you just steal a creature and have it block. Against control it doesn't really do anything since they normally don't have creatures to steal, but they absolutely cannot let it ultimate so they eventually have to find an answer.
Fabricio_Werdum2
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Ashiok is for no more...
McKnuty
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Ashiok allows decks to lower their creature count if they can protect it. Freeing up space in your deck for ulterior strategies surely has design potential. An æther vial for standard.
TheKazu
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I hate to break it to you all, but this card is INSANE.
I was lucky enough to open one in one of my first few packs after returning to the game after a couple of months break, and I didn't know all of the cards in the set (hadn't read gatherer / spoilers). I literally couldn't believe it, a 3 mana planeswalker with a +2 ability that allows me to steal the weenies in the decks that always try to rush my control deck. And its CMC is low enough for it to come out early enough to matter against those types of decks. And against another control deck? They tend not to be very efficient without a hand, and even if they find an answer before the ultimate goes off, you can almost always steal at least one nice creature you exiled.
Low CMC card that demands an answer and can help {U}{B} out against faster decks. Hands down good.
DangeRuss
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(3 votes)
I have a theory as to the nature of Ashiok I'd like to throw out there. Ashiok might not be just a guy who got so soaked in terror magic he started breaking down. Ashiok might be an aspect of Nicol Bolas. Now, hear me out before tearing this one down. Prior to The Mending, Bolas was one of the most powerful planeswalkers to exist. He was powerful enough to pretty much resurrect himself when Tetsuo Umezawa killed him. However, when the mending happened, it cut down on the power of all planeswalkers, making them a bit more reasonable and mortal. However, Bolas wasn't just some run-of-the-mill planeswalker. Over centuries, he's been amassing power, energy. Physics says energy cannot be destroyed, only diverted. My theory is Bolas had so much power, he shot off at least one fraction of himself. Possibly more. Ashiok could represent the power of fear Bolas had, or maybe Bolas' own fear of being betrayed by a subject like Tetsuo. For a visual cue, look at Ashiok's face. It's two giant horns. Look at Bolas' henchmen. Disciple of Bolas, Augur of Bolas and Mindclaw Shaman incorporate the horns into their garb. Ashiok's got horns coming out of his face because he is part of Bolas, torn asunder. The reason Ashiok has no defined gender is because Ashiok is essentially a super-powered, self-aware avatar of Bolas. Avatars have some gender dimorphism, but look at Avatar of Will. No-one knows if that's a dude or a chick, really. I'll admit, I'm probably just grasping at straws. But if I'm right, I'm looking forward to other possible fractions of Bolas, like an RB and a UR fraction.
AirborneLemming
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So, my opponent scrys 2 while I have this thing out. I have a duskmantle seer. My turn; guys loses three life then I exile his hero's downfall! Ashiok lives on!
UKenobi
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@AirborneLemming
That doesn't make any sense. The last part of Duskmantle Seer's ability would put the Hero's Downfall into your opponents hand long before Ashiok got a chance to exile it from the top of his library. Unless you're saying that you used Ashiok's -10 to exile his hand after he drew it and he happened to be tapped down and unable to cast it in response to you activating the ability.
Hunter06
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Initially, I viewed him *like many* as terrible, than I played agenst him... *Shudders*
4.5/5 Stars
ChandraAblaze
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Liliana Vess hates this planeswalker more than any other. Liliana of the Veil loves to team up with him.
Goatllama
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Hmmm, the art doesn't overlap some part of the card frame like on most planeswalkers.
Drewskithelegend
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
She's not your Jace/Garruk throw-me-in-with-whatever-as-long-as-it's-in-my-color walker. Brilliantly in terms of design she's downright rude to scry and can take opposing creatures very handily. If nothing else, she demands your opponent's attention and will outright shaft U/W decks that are unprepared. As powerful as she could be in standard, I suspect she'll see more play in Modern/legacy control decks, if as nothing more than a fancy sideboard card. There's a perfect home for her somewhere!
I just realized...Holy f*** it goes to 11, back down to 1 and all those cards your opponent just lost are waiting for the -x again? Um, yeah, it's a monster. Gotta love cards that make you think of ways to break them.
reawkwian
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
really fun when this guy hits running it in my mill deck and its just hilaious how much work this card gets done with a bit of control
SorianSadaskan
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Unless one runs a complete 'Creatureless' deck feature, you'll always be facing the probability of your own creatures putting a boot in your face.
Boros deck running Heroics most likely would face Anax and Cymede kicking you right back in the ass. Think how cheap Red and White creatures are. His continual existence ensures your your opponent can not refuel their library with Elixir of Life, and furthers insures your opponents imminent demise within 17 turns.
brunocunha
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
While making his awesome mess, this guy just turns off the block's main mechanic (aka Scry). I run 3 in an Esper-control and I'm seriously thinking about maindecking the 4th
syntheticbiology232
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
i love how they made this both a mill card for the new guys and something tactical and tricky for the veterans perfect for and
Aelvr
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Why does everybody keep calling Ashiok "him?" Is that thing a guy?
Bobth
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Favorite planeswalker. Done.
Liliana was "just okay" to me as a Black mage for so long. Very glad this guy is now in the picture.
JarieSuicune
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Gotta agree. Even the name "Ashiok"... it sounds more female to me.
Either way, fun card! Simple to use, and fun too! ... unless on the receiving end, heh heh.
r2d2go
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is frightening to play against. A good portion of the time, you get one turn of scrambling to kill it and then they get a creature of up to CMC 5 - CMC 4 and they can do it again. Very occasionally you can screw over your opponent with the ultimate. The rest of the time that +2 makes it durable, distracting and messes with scrying at the very least, and at CMC 3 that is not a bad deal.
JunkHarvester
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
THREE drafts in a row (online) I opened one of these. Ashiok is a BEAST in draft.
A BEAST!
Can't wait to see him get played in standard, I have a BUG super-friends shell that's being tested and worked on. Probably should be esper, or grixis but I wanted to test out Kiora also.
OlvynChuru
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Ashiok is a pretty interesting planeswalker. His/her +2 ability doesn't have much of an effect on the game, but it makes her gain loyalty extremely quickly, making him/her very difficult to kill. If the opponent attacks him/her instead of you, that means that you don't lose as much life. However, if your opponent attacks you, Ashiok will have ridiculous loyalty before you know it.
Shoey1412
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I was underwhelmed by this at first. I thought it was cool and certainly didn't think it was terrible. My true opinion comes from how it dismantled me when I played against it. I have watched too flippin' many of my awesome cards be banished from a game because of this evil...thing....
But for real, people:
This card is not to be underestimated. It is not a top tier threat, but once it hits the board your opponent (or you) is going to need to remove it right away. The loss of three cards each turn is really going to start to wear on anyone. Especially when they start to see their own threats stolen or just eaten up by it.
Yeah, you might accelerate their draw into something big but remember you are playing UB. You have counters, removal and discard at your disposal. And I have seen this in other comments, but it really can't be emphasized enough; Scry is back and Ashiok absolutely messes with that mechanic. It can still be done, but it becomes very tricky.
Seriously, if this thing sticks around for 2 turns the absolute worst thing that happens is that they no longer have 6 cards to use against you. When you consider that you can have black discard helping you out, they are going to watch a lot of their threats go down the drain before they have a chance to play them.
The design of the card is incredible as well. There is not a single other Planeswalker I would be less excited to run into in a dark place.
Comments (87)
+2: She can potentially remove your opponent's biggest threat from the game, if it is on the top of their deck. Or she could work to manascrew an opponent, or more likely, just take away some of their tools.
-X: Her true power lies here. Assuming your opponent cannot deal with her after you first use her +2, she can potentially bring in a cmc 5 creature (and there are not many creatures that cost six or more mana in this set, so she will hit a lot of viable targets).
-10: This ability is good, but hard to evaluate. In the late game, it will help to clear out your opponents' hands and limit their options. In two player games, depending on the deck your opponent is running, there might not be much to exile from their hand. This ability is highly situational in its success.
Her first two abilities work perfectly together, and she is an early to mid game threat, with staying power.
5/5
Plus, flavorwise, she is awesome.
Anyway, I'd love one in foil. I have way too few walkers in foil, and the artwork of this one is fantastic. Like a creature out of a Guillermo del Toro movie!
By the way, the German version of this card seems to confirm that Ashiok is MALE!
However, I half-wish that his +1 discarded the top two cards, not exiled. Exiling is more permanent and will probably deal more damage in the long run, but the potential of running him in a Dimir deck would have been awesome.
Oh, well. 4/5 for a good, cheap planeswalker.
1. it's a DIMIR PLANESWALKER, which I think EVERYONE was eager and anxious for as soon as Jace Beleren was spoiled in LORWYN x.x
somehow, people seem to have partially forgotten that they just wanted a U/B pw no matter what it did. in other words, Walkers have been around so long that....well...we know a little bit how to evaluate them x( So, we actually DO care what it does more than we would if it had shown up earlier :( I guarantee, if this had been a Scars of Mirrodin Planeswalker, people would have loved it a lot more, just because that would be longer ago and people would be less certain of criticizing it and more focused on the Pure Vorthosness.
2. But...we know just enough about Walkers now that we can see, as cool as this is Vorthos wise, it's got some important downsides :/ It can't consistently protect itself. It's a bit too awkward and costly to 'make' or 'steal' creatures with this. The two abilities are not JUST "synergistic" the second ability is HIGHLY dependent on the first. And it asks for a SPECIFIC converted mana cost. It may have a +2, but it doesn't have a way to interact with the board and that is really dangerous because it has 3 ''toughness'' and really needs every point of loyalty it can get to pour into that 2nd ability and leave toughness left over to survive attacks and spells.
Even with Reanimator actually being a Real Deck in Standard (though it might be getting a lot weaker...we will see what happens there by Journey into Nyx) I somewhat doubt that you will be using that -10 in Standard. You'll race up to it with the +2....and against a Reanimator deck, you'd probably rather just -X something good from them to kill them instead of 'sac my walker to cast Wrath of God on your graveyard.....that you will fill up again'
3. I'm sure it's a cool Walker and all, and the more Control oriented your match is the better it'll do. I actually REALLY like the ultimate, because WHEN it matters, it's a fairly huge thing, and it doesn't have to matter every game. Much like Jace 1.0's. IN a game where you're afraid of Milling, it's a big deal, but as Jace, Memory Adept shows, powerful milling can be pushed quite a lot more than that and remain 'good but fair'. It's not very insane to mill tons of cards in a single turn, it only really helps in Mill or Reanimator. Taking out graveyards is 'a big deal Where Relevant', taking them ALL out makes this a threat absolutely desirable to activate in Commander.
Basically, I see this getting a lot more abuse in casual play than sanctioned Constructed Events. UNLESS I am completely mis-evaluating the difficulty of getting that -X to work smoothly. This COULD be the Dimir Birthing Pod in Modern. :P Maybe?
My conclusion is that it's almost awful in a vacuum but in the context of ''you're allowed to have more than one Walker in your deck'', there are LOTS of good "Fighter" walkers you can use as frontline protection for this ''Mage'' Walker :)
Jace 1 + Liliana 2 + Ashiok 1 in the same deck, for example, sounds like a pretty great plan to me X.X
I really like this card. 4/5
I'm gonna just go ahead and exile the crap outa him/her.
Now as a casual player I definitely won't talk about constructed, but he does seem strong in casual play. Other than facing aggro decks, he seems to do quite some work quite fast.
You drop him on turn 3, immediately start removing cards and hit the -X as early as next turn (if there's something interesting), even though I'd personally do a few more +2s just to make him bigger and have a higher probabilty of getting a nice creature.
Not sure about the power level, but I can say that it's looking fairly strong.
he replied, "Maybe, but Ashiok doesn't like being labeled"
he's just *** awesome
It gives you more options for the -X ability, at the expense of spending the loyalty points that you need to actually use those options.
The third ability is so laughable that it almost doesn't bear mention. Its utility compared to the second ability price-wise is negligible. You could be putting their Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, or Progenitus into play for that kind of investment, not to mention the army of other less expensive creatures you've been exile milling this whole time.
"Don't worry about checking your privilege. Ashiok will gladly check it for you." *Proceeds to screw your mind*
"Die, cis scum... Or go mad... or serve me. There's quite a few things cis scum can do, really."
EDIT: Player's guide to Theros says "He". Case closed.
guys. i'm sorry. i'm really, really sorry. I weep to say these words: he's only good in limited.
i've done everything i can to make him work. literally, everything. Proliferate, counterspells, murder shells, everything. i even ran him with DOUBLING SEASON. He literally requires Gideon, Champion of Justice levels of loyalty to make a real impact at all in the game. every time i have played him, he has died within 1 turn of being out on the board. i watch my board state go backwards every time he is played. my opponent drops 2 creatures and swings at him putting him to 1 loyalty. what can i steal at this point? a 1-drop creature. just a 1-drop. and i lose him immediately for doing that. is it worth 3 mana on turn 3 to exile 3 cards off their library and steal a 1-drop while the opponent gets to swing in for 6+ damage and burn out my creatures?
the short answer? no. and it PAINS me to say that. it KILLS me to say that he's not good. it hurts so bad. in {U}{B}, i'd rather run Psychic Strike or hell, i'd even run Nightveil Specter over him. I was actually noticeably upset in my friend group after i tried using him and failed game after game after game. Casual, Standard, Modern, EVEN LEGACY GAMES. he didn't hold up in any of them. the ONLY format he held his own in was limited.
In limited, he is amazing. just +2 them to DEATH. you can do it. i did it 3 TIMES at Prerelease. 3 TIMES!!! Mill out by NOTHING but him. you can do it. but nowhere but limited.
I'm so sorry. My Dimir Brothers and sisters, in my eyes, from my experience, we are still waiting for our true leader that hides in the Blind Eternities. until they reveal themself to us however, I'll be waiting with baited breath.
Also speaking out of standard, can you imagine your opponents face when you steal their nice $200 tarmogoyf or Dark Confidant?
His/Her ultimate however is trash and not really that relevant but does work well with the -X ability but still, -10? That's 3 turns after he/she comes out, and with all this burn i.e Burn, Boros Charm, Searing Spear, Magma Jet, I don't see him/her living too much longer after that.
Still, amazing card, can be game changing granted you can protect it, but still not Liliana of the Veil given they both start at 3 and have a 3cmc. But definitely deserves a 4/5
Plus, with the Informer, you can grab anything - no matter how useless - and turn it into extra milling
Anyway, if you're doubting his ultimate's worth, at the very least I can tell you his ultimate is better than nearly anything you could get for -10 from him in EDH. Identity Crisis is an absolutely damning card in EDH that barring the most incredible board position takes you out of the game if it resolves. This guy Crisis' all your opponents and if you have any spare loyalty he can start building up to cast their hands and graveyards.
Buddy pulled this in his sealed pool and he managed to drop this on turn 3 and then proceeded to 'mill' me down to about 7 cards (of 43). I managed to attack it enough times to kill it, but only because I was able to draft a strong collection of blue and/or white fliers that he could never block. Most intense sealed match I've played to date.
What? Identity crisis off your planeswalker can't win you the game? If you've kept it alive long enough to use the -10, that is game over. They no longer have a hand, and you probably have the board tied up enough already, so they have no options and are probably already losing.
Requiring -10 is fair considering that it has a +2, starts at 3 loyalty, and only costs 3 mana. If I recall correctly, liliana of the veil was ****ing broken, and you shouldn't bother comparing it to this.
The real power from this card is obvious. It comes out early, and you pass the turn with 5 counters on it. That puts it out of range of even boros charm. If it survives the turn, you can sit back and more loyalty on this guy while you cast removal, or you can put some pressure on by getting a free creature in addition to your removal or keep your mana open to counter whatever they try to do.
The weakness of this card is not that it's ultimate ability costs a lot and that the card is not broken like liliana of the veil, it is that when it hits play, it has pretty much no impact. The only thing you could do that's only mildly annoying is mess up your opponent's scry from the previous turn.
BTW, you might already know that he perfectly fits with Azorius Charm and Time Ebb . Make sure put 4 Charms or 0-a few Time Ebb in your deck so that your stealth could be more precise.
Very powerful PW + Incredible art = 5/5 for me.
So how does this card play out? Pretty impressive from what I've seen so far. It's pretty scary seeing this card drop on turn three, go to five loyalty, and flip over my Blood Baron of Vizkopa. I find myself scrambling to deal with this thing just so I don't have to die to my own creature. Now that's a nightmare! But even if Ashiok doesn't come down until later, it's another thing that can get out of hand if it's not dealt with.
Cool card.
+X = Help you to have a better board position or defend itself: Sorin puts out lifelink dudes, Chandra deals a bit of damage, Jace offers card advantage (typically.) Ashiok merely exiles only three cards from an opponents library that might have potential your next turn.
-X = You're in a tight spot, so use its middle ability to help you out a little more: Ajani Vengeant performs a Lightning Helix to kill something and heal you a little, Ral bolts something, Garruk either puts out a beast or has you draw some cards. Ashiok can't even use this ability when he first comes out (budum tss) to the battlefield, and he's not guaranteed to ever use it successfully.
-A lot = You've worked hard to keep your Planeswalker alive, so here is something really cool that could very well win you the game. Start exiling stuff with Venser, turn somebody's hand into their library with SuperJace, or even Tibalt steals everybody's creatures and beats them up with them. Ashiok exiles everyone's hands and graveyards but yours. Cool, but unless you already have a good board position, it may not really get you anywhere.
Again, Ahiok is cool to play with, but most practical if you build around him, much like Tezzeret.
So the effect is relatively worthless, but the first two effects (and the CMC) are good enough to put Ashiok as a two of in my grixis and esper decks.
Ashiok wasn't designed like your typical planeswalker (neither was Gideon Jura), which is why the standard metrics make it look silly and casual. The problem people have with it is that there is no guarantee of value; its abilities must be sequenced.
But it is powerful, this is evident if you've ever pulled it in limited. Your opponent must answer it, or it will drop their creatures, steal their clutch 1-of's, and disrupt their attempts to smooth out draws with scry. The ultimate is there only as an alternative to the -X, against decks with no creatures.
Decks must have inevitability and defense to get value out of Ashiok (i.e. control), and sometimes it will eat a Hero's Downfall/Dreadbore while providing basically nothing. But this happens to creatures and other planeswalkers as well. It's no Liliana of the Veil, but then what is am I right?
Stomps control decks, awesome against aggro..... Counters scry......
I was lucky enough to open one in one of my first few packs after returning to the game after a couple of months break, and I didn't know all of the cards in the set (hadn't read gatherer / spoilers). I literally couldn't believe it, a 3 mana planeswalker with a +2 ability that allows me to steal the weenies in the decks that always try to rush my control deck. And its CMC is low enough for it to come out early enough to matter against those types of decks. And against another control deck? They tend not to be very efficient without a hand, and even if they find an answer before the ultimate goes off, you can almost always steal at least one nice creature you exiled.
Low CMC card that demands an answer and can help {U}{B} out against faster decks. Hands down good.
Ashiok might not be just a guy who got so soaked in terror magic he started breaking down.
Ashiok might be an aspect of Nicol Bolas.
Now, hear me out before tearing this one down.
Prior to The Mending, Bolas was one of the most powerful planeswalkers to exist. He was powerful enough to pretty much resurrect himself when Tetsuo Umezawa killed him. However, when the mending happened, it cut down on the power of all planeswalkers, making them a bit more reasonable and mortal.
However, Bolas wasn't just some run-of-the-mill planeswalker. Over centuries, he's been amassing power, energy.
Physics says energy cannot be destroyed, only diverted.
My theory is Bolas had so much power, he shot off at least one fraction of himself. Possibly more.
Ashiok could represent the power of fear Bolas had, or maybe Bolas' own fear of being betrayed by a subject like Tetsuo.
For a visual cue, look at Ashiok's face. It's two giant horns. Look at Bolas' henchmen. Disciple of Bolas, Augur of Bolas and Mindclaw Shaman incorporate the horns into their garb. Ashiok's got horns coming out of his face because he is part of Bolas, torn asunder.
The reason Ashiok has no defined gender is because Ashiok is essentially a super-powered, self-aware avatar of Bolas. Avatars have some gender dimorphism, but look at Avatar of Will. No-one knows if that's a dude or a chick, really.
I'll admit, I'm probably just grasping at straws.
But if I'm right, I'm looking forward to other possible fractions of Bolas, like an RB and a UR fraction.
That doesn't make any sense. The last part of Duskmantle Seer's ability would put the Hero's Downfall into your opponents hand long before Ashiok got a chance to exile it from the top of his library. Unless you're saying that you used Ashiok's -10 to exile his hand after he drew it and he happened to be tapped down and unable to cast it in response to you activating the ability.
4.5/5 Stars
I just realized...Holy f*** it goes to 11, back down to 1 and all those cards your opponent just lost are waiting for the -x again? Um, yeah, it's a monster. Gotta love cards that make you think of ways to break them.
Boros deck running Heroics most likely would face Anax and Cymede kicking you right back in the ass. Think how cheap Red and White creatures are. His continual existence ensures your your opponent can not refuel their library with Elixir of Life, and furthers insures your opponents imminent demise within 17 turns.
I run 3 in an Esper-control and I'm seriously thinking about maindecking the 4th
Liliana was "just okay" to me as a Black mage for so long. Very glad this guy is now in the picture.
Either way, fun card! Simple to use, and fun too! ... unless on the receiving end, heh heh.
A BEAST!
Can't wait to see him get played in standard, I have a BUG super-friends shell that's being tested and worked on. Probably should be esper, or grixis but I wanted to test out Kiora also.
But for real, people:
This card is not to be underestimated. It is not a top tier threat, but once it hits the board your opponent (or you) is going to need to remove it right away. The loss of three cards each turn is really going to start to wear on anyone. Especially when they start to see their own threats stolen or just eaten up by it.
Yeah, you might accelerate their draw into something big but remember you are playing UB. You have counters, removal and discard at your disposal. And I have seen this in other comments, but it really can't be emphasized enough; Scry is back and Ashiok absolutely messes with that mechanic. It can still be done, but it becomes very tricky.
Seriously, if this thing sticks around for 2 turns the absolute worst thing that happens is that they no longer have 6 cards to use against you. When you consider that you can have black discard helping you out, they are going to watch a lot of their threats go down the drain before they have a chance to play them.
The design of the card is incredible as well. There is not a single other Planeswalker I would be less excited to run into in a dark place.