Pointed Discussion

Skrillex

With this reprint, I hope greatness costs at least $20 less.

I really do feel like such a noob. I still don't understand why this is, like, one of the most beloved and apparently broken cards ever. The card draw is nice, I get that much, but I do think I'm missing something. Anyone mind explaining?

@TomTomat:
1. He draws cards.
2. He's a 2/1, so he can trade with */2s or swing if he has to.
3. He draws cards.
4. He's aggressively costed and can be played in any deck (except most Commander decks, usually loaded with high CMC spells).
5. He draws cards.
6. The life-loss is irrelevant. You should be winning anyway.
7. Did I mention he draws cards?!

(Note that he does not actually draw the cards. But you get the idea).

Man, with this crappy art, its totally 'Dork Confidant'...

In any-case, this is a beast of a card and now I'm hoping that he doesn't cost 60 in his real, actual form.

5/5 Stars

really dark indeed

Bob, the Essence of Spike.

Tom, Card Advantage is thy name of the game. As the flavor text says, "Greatness, at any cost"

@Tom I'll try to explain an example. I once played a game against my friend where he started the game with NOTHING in his hand but a Dark Confidant, I started with a full hand.

He won.

5/5

This card brings so much value.

Each card you draw should give more value than the amount of life you lost for it was worth. Remember, life is only a resource, and the amount doesn't matter as long as you're alive at the end. Tackle it onto a 2/1 creature that can be an aggressive beater or trade for other relevant cards while still granting card advantage, and you got yourself one hell of a card.

Worst case scenario, he eats removal for your win condition. A truly black card, both in flavor and mechanics.

5/5

Bob's back!!! Right now highest rated gatherer card.

Not a fan of this "Skrillex" art or the whole "now a Mythic" thing.
I prefer the original "Bob" art but you can't overstate the power of this card.

TomTomat: Spend $5 on a Necropotence before you touch this. Don't bother trying to 'break' it, just play it like a 'REALLY' souped up Enchantment-version of Divination. Then build some decks with it. Lose a lot with those decks. Then give those decks to your opponents to play against you. Then lose a lot to decks with Necropotence in them.

I can see you know THAT Necropotence is good already. What you don't know, what I admit freely I don't know either, is HOW to play Necropotence. It's a skill-testing card to play with, actually. As many times as it can give you a 'free win', it can give that 'free win' to your opponents until you know what you're doing. Watch it work a bit. Let yourself get beat up by your own weapons so you can learn how to USE your weapons.

Then go back and compare the textboxes and typelines of Necropotence and Doctor Horrible here. (He needs a new name as it's no longer Bob. Doctor Doom felt cliché and Skrillex was what everyone else was saying).

This is a Necropotence THAT ATTACKS. and BLOCKS. Yes, the P/T is low. Yes, compared to SKULL, the card draw is slow and seemingly even more painful. But it combines Card Advantage with the Philosophy of Fire. Which is kind of like combining the Philosophy of Oil with the Philosophy of Fire.

It Draws Cards.
And it Attacks.
And it Blocks.
And it Costs only 2 Mana.

Go ahead and play it in your Kaalia of the Vast Commander decks. It is much more splashable than Necropotence, which is of huge relevance because you'll be shooting from the hip on mana, intending to cheat practically all colors and costs. If you figure out how to do it right (which would include a couple cards devoted to Huge Gobs of Lifegain), then even topdecking a Draco that you intend to put into play tapped and attacking for free ought to be something your deck is not afraid of doing.

Congregate + Dark Confidant is fair to call a "combo" in KaaliaEDH. :)

@Everyone on Gatherer: Buy Necropotence and use it to learn how to play MAGIC. Proxy Dark Confidant and use it to learn how to play MAGIC with Non-Vintage, Tournament Legal Cards.

I'm gonna miss the old art. A number of the player cards had pretty mediocre art, but Bob was not one of them.

Strictly less Bob Maher than Dark Confidant.

I don't think the art for the invitational cards should ever be changed. It seems disrespectful to the players that earned that honor. I can't wait to see the generic blue wizard that Snapcaster Mage will look like when it's reprinted.

Skill detector "on"

Awesome card, but that's obvious. Unfortunately, I don't really have too much of a use for it, as a casual player. I'll probably wind up selling or trading mine if I get one.

I don't really like the art. It's too colourful for a black card imo. Maybe I'm just being picky. They can't all be super dark.

The cards still epic though. It's funny because at first glance, you wouldn't think this is OP.

Greatness, hopefully at less of a cost.

Greatness...for $149.

For some reason, the mythic rare expansion symbol makes the art feel all the more sinister.

"With this reprint, I hope greatness costs at least $20 less." -- Gcrudaplaneswalker

Looks like someone here does not live up to Bob's motto.

...

Well, admittedly - me neither :D

I not only like this art more; I *really really* like the expansion symbol in mythic. God is that beautiful.

What can I say about this amazing card that hasn't already been said? A card that improves as skill level and deckbuilding skill increases.

For your Convenience: Divining Top (or just take that lifeloss like a man!)

I kinda preferred the original art - come on guys, Solemn Simulacrum kept his purdeh face for Commander (even if he did lose it in the following core set)!

This just looks... well... generic, I guess. Awesome card, but still.

I know it's greatness at any cost, but $77!? WORTH IT!!!

There's always that moment in a young Magic player's mind when they become more than a beginner. It's the moment when you realize the "Greatness" rather than the "Cost".

If anyone pays attention to my previous comments, they'll know I only play EDH and Limited. They're not the best formats for understanding the "Greatness", since you've never seen it in action.

So when I first heard of this card, I thought it was nothing special. "Ok... what's wrong with Dark Tutelage? Why isn't that $10 or so?". It's the usual thinking most players start with. Losing life is a big thing, especially when you rationalize that you could lose 12 life drawing a Blightsteel Colossus (the Boogeyman of Magic: everyone's heard of him and fears him).

But then it clicked, like it clicks for everyone eventually. "You don't play it with anything more than 3-cost. You get an attacker/blocker and a card, all for ."

So for those who are giving those who don't think this is a good card a hard time, put yourself in their shoes. If you main-decked cards like Goblin Game and Decree of Pain, would you think this is good?

of course its awesome, but mercurial chemister costs only 3 more, draws one more card each turn, doesnt let your opponents know what it is, doesnt cost you life, and can be a removal.

but, well, i think his worth the 70$ price (but only because i opened him. would anyone please buy him from me?)

Silly Dark Confidant impostor, everyone knows you're really the Crimson Mage

I just realized something. He really looks like Crimson Mage. Like, with the half-hair and the spinny wheel scar thingy.

I really regret selling my three bobs for only 20$ each a few months ago...don't let desperation decimate your collection!

Also, phyrexian arena and howling mine are better, imo

@Ferlord: I have no problem main decking Decree of Pain, yet I completely understand why the unBob is OP. Paradox?

Love the art! Very reminiscent of Gary Oldman's character in the fifth element. I don't even have to go into how powerful this card is, you all know.

Very rarely does it happen that I like the old art of a new art reprint better, but it has happened here. In the old art, he has those evil eyes and that very cold feel of dark ambition, really looking like he is ready to sacrifice the whole world for his ambition, really cool stuff, fitting to both effect and flavourtext.
This... this is just weird, he is transforming a throne with a crown in his hand and an emo haircut, looking like a circus artist?
I will always like the old art better.
But can someone explain what is going on in this art?

Bob Maher once got killed by his own Dark Confidant and a pair of Force of Wills.

People who don't get why he's so much more sought than Phyrexian Arena or Dark Tutelage aren't getting how critically card advantage relates to tempo. Getting your card advantage on turn three vs turn four could really mean the difference between winning and losing.

@Paleopaladin

Then why not run Demonic Tutor over this? Same mana curve, gives you exactly the card you want, thirty dollars cheaper at least.

I've had this same discussion about Sovereign vs Blind obedience. Those two are on the same mana curve, Obedience is harder to remove, and gives the extra ability of extort. Yet Sovereign is more sought after. people say it's the 2/1 for two creature that gives it it's edge, and I'm willing to bet that that's the reason why people think Dark Confidant is better than dark tutelage.

What I don't get is that 2/1's can be knocked out by pretty much every known type of creature removal, which is almost always rampant in all decks. The price difference between this and tutelage is grossly more vast though and it perplexes me.

Dies to Viashino Skeleton. 0/5

@SerGarlan: Demonic Tutor is banned in Legacy and hasn't been printed recently enough to be in Modern (don't think for a second it wouldn't be banned there if it was, though) and is Restricted in Vintage. Its hardly fair to say Dark Confidant is bad because of how it matches up to a card you're not even allowed to play...

Demonic Tutor is also a totally different type of card. It gives you one card of your choice, right now, which is most useful for combo decks (although it costs so little that non-combo decks would love to use it too). Dark Confidant gives you consistent card advantage turn after turn. If it survives even a turn its gotten you a card back, so you've still got card advantage when he gets removed. Even if he gets killed before your first upkeep, he's still only 2 cost, so it probably took your opponent's entire turn as well, meaning that you haven't really lost tempo or card advantage.

Say an opponent doesn't kill Dark Confidant (maybe they don't run removal, or just didn't draw into it, whatever) and now you've got lots of card advantage. Assuming the rest of your deck is built well, you're almost certainly going to win when you're seeing double as many cards (and therefore double as many options) as your opponent.

And, finally, you seriously underestimate the advantages of being a creature as well. While Dark Confidant does die to removal, that can actually save you the game! Say you're in control of a game, your opponent can't stick a threat, but your life total has gotten dangerously low. A Dark Confidant trigger or two has a chance of killing you. No problem! Just throw a Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, etc. at it, and you're in the clear, whereas having Dark Tutelage or Phyrexian Arena might kill you. Its much too risky to run mainboard Erases or even Naturalizes for those situations, as many decks don't use Enchantments or Artifacts (Bolt is even moderately useful against creatureless decks too, and Path/Swords can be used on your own creatures in a pinch).

Plus, as a creature, he can chump-block to save you once the game is coming to a close. Say you're at a low life total and an opponent's Tarmogoyf is going to finish you off soon. The Arena or Tutelege aren't going to prevent any of that damage-they'll just add to it. But with the Confidant, you can block the 'Goyf (or other non-evasive threat) and conveniently lose his own threat to your life total as well. He can also kill your opponent (or at least put some damage on them) as he's helping you draw removal for their would-be blockers.

This isn't to say that Phyrexian Arena or Dark Tutelage are bad cards. The Arena is a lot better if you'e running high cost cards in your deck (not likely in Modern or Legacy though) and Tutelage is basically a balanced (read: weaker) version of them.

I don't see it.

Pain Seer seems worse. Let the debate begin

@ j-mindfingerpainter except they are going to have 100 hunderd and one ways to have you tap and untap pain seer they are not going to put in the whole new mechianic inspired and not have dozens and dozens of cards that can work with the card in all formats amd some formats they could have cards that could make bob worse then pain seer.

Pain Seer seems worse. Let the debate begin

EDIT: Well, the debate happened on the Pain Seer page. It was pretty redundant, actually. Here's my take: Bob is good enough for any format. Pain Seer can make it into Standard mono-{B} devotion. Cards that require additional turns or cards to make a payoff just aren't as good as the ones that don't, simple as that.

It would never happen but I'd love to see this card reprinted in Standard. Greatness/5

@Gcrudaplaneswalker: Ironically, this version costs $20 *more* than the Ravnica original currently does.

Unlike my rant on the Tarmogoyf, I do believe this card however is worth its price tag. I have played both cards in decks, and DC has always been my favorite for it's abilities. By far, my favorite MTG card of all time.

Can you imagine being the designer that said "No, I really do think a 1/1 for 2 that draws you a card every turn is underpowered, at least make it a bear!" only to compromise at 2/1?

Shouldn't he be an adviser?

@Paleopaladin: Also, the fact that he's a creature is a big deal. In the card advantage decks based around him, you will generally be running a bunch of cheap high-power creatures and a bunch of cheap removal, with the goal of trading removal one-for-one with your opponent's blockers and threats, while swarming them with your creatures before they can put together anything more complicated or dangerous.

If you put four Phyrexian Arenas or Dark Tutelages in a deck, you lose a bit of pressure on your opponent when you spend the card and mana to play one, and then you run the risk of losing even more if you draw another one as your extra card (which is not as good as it sounds because your whole deck depends on keeping up the pressure right now rather than a few turns from now.) Whereas if your Dark Confidant draws you another Dark Confidant, you can play it and use it as another beatstick to end the game more quickly.

The king placed his confidence in this man, who while providing him with vital information also slowly corroded the monarchy and usurped control of it. This is perhaps what the art of this card is attempting to get across (I suggest the king hire a royal assassin POST HASTE).

Not quite worth $80 IMO but 5/5 hands down. Need a playset for legacy still :( part of me likes Phrexian Arena better for two reasons. It is an enchantment so it is way harder to remove, and you lose 1 life per card instead of potentially 4.

VALUE.

Of all the creatures, this one has to be the most value. There more comboish creatures, more aggressive creatures, more efficient creatures. But none with better value.