I'm a new player and built my first deck that's running Nemesis of Reason, Mind Funeral, and Millstone...from what I gather (being a new player and all) Megrim won't help my deck at all since these cards are not actually being discarded from the oppenents hand, is that correct? I think I'll be investing in a few Jace cards.
UltimaCenturion
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(7 votes)
Doesn't matter, jg, because it merely says "when they discard a card," not "when they discard a card from their hand." So it would be WONDERFUL with all those other cards. I'd put it in. Even though I'm running a Black Green deck, this wouldn't help me, because in mine I'm usually the one discarding. (I have Ooze Garden, which tends to kill my own creatures, in a very strategically helpful way, with the right creatures and the right buffs and abilities.)
BrutalJim
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(7 votes)
Ultima, you are so incredibly wrong. First of all you cannot "discard a card" from anywhere but your hand. Cards put from your library into the graveyard are not "discarded" they are put from your library to your graveyard. Secondly this doesn't affect you, only your opponents, so if you are the one discarding, it has no effect. Lastly, Ooze Garden does not affect this because you are "sacrificing" creatures not discarding them. They are being sent from the field to the graveyard, not from your hand to the graveyard. Aside from my necessary scolding, this is a good card in decks that cause discarding. (Not Milling decks because Milling attacks your opponents libraries, not their hand)
God_of_Destruction
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(6 votes)
A must for any discard deck... 4 copies of these will surely punish your opponent... Blightning, Ravenous Rats, Rotting Rats, Hellhole Rats, Mind Rot, Duress, Mind Shatter and the likes have a lot of punishing synergy with this...
RobinHood3000
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(4 votes)
By definition, discarding means "from one's hand to graveyard," not "from anywhere to graveyard." Or has no one ever wondered why Megrim/Mill decks don't exist in professional play?
Sinbadthepirate
★★☆☆☆ (2.5/5.0)(2 votes)
I have a u/b discard deck with four of these. it works wonders with wistful thinking. it also has underworld dreams. so draw 2, take 2 damage, discard 4, lose 8 life. im pretty happy with it, really.
Dark_Raider
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
You know what's a really funny combo? Megrim + Pain Magnification + Anything that makes megrim deal extra damage (for example: Furnace of the Rath). Makes them discard their whole hand, and has them take a great amount of damage. All you need is a burn and/or discard card. Of course, Blightning would do excellently is this combo...
I generally dislike cards that tell me: "Don't just persue ONE strategy, try THIS and THIS too!" Megrim can be useful, sure, but it can also be a very dead card. I wish this would leave the Core Set.
Spideredd
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I now want to build a red black discard deck.
Pain and death to everyone it comes against.
AlphaNumerical
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(7 votes)
I have a deck with 4x Duress, 4x Hymn To Tourach, 4x Hypnotic Specter, and 3x Shimian Specter, but I sure as hell wouldn't run a single one of these. Why? First of all, Shimian Specter doesn't even interact with this, as it exiles cards. Don't get me wrong, I pride my Shimian Specter for being unbelievably awesome (I once won on the 3rd turn by exiling all of my opponent's Haakons, as my opponent conceded immediately). Even if my Shimians were more 'normal' specters, such as Needle/Abyssal (both rather inferior, and Abyssal absolutely blows in comparison), I wouldn't run Megrim. Why? It is simply a waste of space in this place.
Decks with a 100% focus on discard simply don't work. Especially those that rely on Megrim as a win/supplement to win-con. A black deck that runs heavy discard however, will work even in THG to an extent if played properly, without a single Megrim, which will often just be a dead card, as you want your discard to come really quick, before the 3rd turn, while it is still effective. Wasting mana accel on Megrim is a horrible idea.
What I'm trying to say is that Megrim is a combo piece, not a synergy piece. In a Burning Inquiry/Parasite/UW Dreams type deck, Megrim would rock, hard. Wistful Thinking would also combo fairly well. Needles to say, Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fate, Winds of Change, Wheel & Deal all combo great and can practically insta win if you resolve it (especially the Jar and Deal).
Thing is, this card is overrated; it has only very narrow use in actuality, despite what this may suggest to newer deckbuilders. Running this just because you have some 'cool' discard, such as Tyrannize or Wit's End simply doesn't work.
Situationally a combo jewel, but for 90% of decks with discard, just like Dream Salvage, doesn't quite work as good as intended, as you'll need this in hand/play, slowing you down, and thats the critical advantage of discard - the way it strikes out of nowhere. Instead of this, try Extirpate.
3.5/5
ESUpin
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
A fun casual card to mess around with, and really fun when it works, but Megrim as a primary win condition doesn't make for a very stable strategy, even if you mix in White for Enlightened Tutor. There is a Standard black/red Burning Inquiry + Blightning + Incendiary Command deck floating around, but if you never draw Megrim you don't have enough firepower to burn your opponent to death.
Megrimage
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
i have been using these in casual play with my circle of friends for so long... that sometimes i even toss them into decks for no reason just as a decoy. Same goes with hippies... when ever I get those out on the board my buddies all of a sudden get focussed on them and dont pay attention to what I am really attempting.
i dont ever use megrim with discard cards like duress or hymns though because opponents simply just play everything.
Locohead
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is a very conditional card. Would be stupid to put this in an all-out fast black discard deck, as you would much rather kill their hand as soon as possible than wait to put this out first. Maybe good in a slower R/B draw/discard/damage control deck that used things like Anvil of Bogardan, Underworld Dreams, Burning Inquiry and the like. But there are undoubtedly many better ways to win.
Sothas
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I play this in a B/U with a few Warped Devotion.Boomerang, Unsummon, and other such cards. Add in a bunch of discards, counterspelling, and draws too, and then Geth's Grimoire and you've got yourself a pretty fast Megrim deck. I almost never loose... granted it doesn't work in Standard touries, but it's still fun for casual.
If you have 7 cards in hand, and tapped lands, thats 28 dmg, plus a MINIMUM of 2 per creature you draw. And thats only if he plays just 1 of each...
icey1311
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I use Megrim in a b/u deck with 3x Cephalid Broker 3x Cephalid Looter and 3x Ravenous Rats along with instants that allow me to draw or give me the opportunity to have an opponent discard. (ie. concentrate and mind rot) I casual games and it works fine for me. I would not say Megrim is the game breaker but I have 4x in my deck so it helps.
Vinifera7
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The major drawback of using cards like this is that they don't actually do anything when you play them. You can't even cast Megrim until turn 3, wherein you've wasted an entire turn and a card in order to set up a condition that deals 2 damage to an opponent when he discards a card. And that's only if you already have Megrim in your hand. Not only that, but Megrim has mana curve conflicts with other cards that cause opponents to discard: Mind Rot, Blightning, Hypnotic Specter, Sedraxis Specter.
While it looks quite appealing to deal 7 damage with Blightning, deck building strategies that rely on Megrim as a win condition are just too reliant on lucky draws and run out of gas quickly. Eventually, your opponent won't have any cards left to discard. Once that happens, Megrim is once again useless.
Silverware
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I agree with AlphanNumerical that this card is not about synergy. Its about comboing.
This card really needs to be part of a combo where the opponent(s) is geting exelerated card drawing and discarding. Feels like it would fit nicely in a blue/black deck.
Chrs84
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
More versions of the discard advantage came out making megrim a bit simple and specific, not much technical advantages involving development... one example of this is: finding a creature that can get you the same effect, since creatures may be a bit easier to link to multiple effects of some kind of play/plan you have, which could work with cards that normally wouldn't be thought of as hand-destruction but suddenly work quite well- in this sense megrim is not really helping you to destroy the hand (which is one of the main goals for the benefit of the card)- so we look for cards that can develop the discard gameplan better- plus you would be less locked into an encantment as a main offense/destructon. I also agree that we'll mostly see this in casual play or someone really pin-pointing a theme and overdoing it (on purpose) lol
In no way is this a bad card when it comes down to it, and when it first came out I played it plenty of times in many versions of discard decks. It is still an excellent enchantment for the play! So for the most part: the less creatures I use the more likely I'd use megrim... chances are that I will be sitting behind a bunch of other enchantments as well... otherwise it's too easy to find better synergy for this play.
his00
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(4 votes)
one of the most misunderstood cards in magic its not why u play its how if no one can understand it this is just a amper u dont got ot paly it u cans it it tell ur ready discard runs fast yes but this thing jsut pumps it and it hurts if played right i love this i got a discard/drain deck i dont just relay on megrim i relay ons tuff like needlebite trap hippis black knight draggers several thigns they all work and it hurts i got kill which is drain like tendrails u got ot relize this si a amazing card in any discard deck yes may be a sitter but when it comes out its usally a damn moment cause that means game if played by the right preosn the deck dont make the player the player makes the deck i run three in ym deck and one in sideoard if im faceing a slwo deck so i can jsut rip them apart it works trut me this underworld dreams and chandra ablaze -2 u got hell trust me it works hard to pull but worht a try
TheDanish
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I've found that a Megrim discard deck works best with other tools that are still effective once your opponent doesn't have cards to discard, like Nyxathid, Guul Draz Spectre, and Skullcage. Cards like Wistful Thinking work much better than Sign in Blood, since the latter gives them an opportunity to play the cards they've drawn. I also have a couple Consult the Necrosages for flexibility.
Don't see many decks using this... Kinda surprised and relieved at the same time lol
JasonC2
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(16 votes)
This card doesn't belong in typical black discard decks, the ones that work based on Blighting, Sed. Spectre, Mindrot, Liliana, etc. Those decks work by getting card advantage and emptying the opponent's hand. A card like Blighting or Mindrot gets card advantage because you spend one card to get rid of 2 opponent cards - though often one of them will be a land, that still slows them down.
It is also important to understand the effect of card discard effects on your opponent's mana tuning. A hand that has been hit twice by discard effects quickly finds itself with useless extra mana, because the number of land drops to playable cards rises. Quick decks are packed with relatively weak creatures and spells that need the usual card volume to spend the available mana in the first 5 to 7 turns. When they get half the usual card volume they play 2 drops with 5 or 6 lands in play. Your own deck can be tuned for the lesser slowdown that occurs from playing hand-attack cards insteads of creatures or cheap removal etc.
But a card that does nothing itself is the opposite of card advantage. Your deck works at cross purposes when you add this to it. You 0 for 1 yourself, instead of 2 for 1.
This does not, however, render the card useless. It just belongs in an entirely different kind of deck, one that - apparently a paradox for many here - does not turn on discarding but on *drawing*.
See, the opponent is going to discard more without you needing to play spells to cause it, if you just stuff him to the gills, beyond the 7 card hand limit. Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, Underworld Dreams, Ked. Parasite, Rune Flare Trap, Mana Barbs - if you want to add white, it would use Silence, Day of Judgment, Angel Song - that sort of thing - but R and B removal and direct burn can suffice and is easier.
You want him to never have enough mana or time to playmost of his cards, and nullify or simply stall, all to ignore his efforts to win on the board. Mana Barbs is the main card to combo it with, not Blighting.
Not many common decks can manage to get rid of 4 cards a turn by actually playing them, and a Mana Barbs can turn this into a kill. You can discard for free, he can't; neither can play cards without paying lots of life; and the cards just keep on coming.
The ideal opening is turn 1 Lightning Bolt to face, turn 2 Howling Mine, turn 3 Megrim, turn 4 Manabarbs. Then finish with a Keder Parasite and a Font of Mythos and let him squirm. If you are worried about your own life total you can switch the Font and Marbs drops; it gives him 4 more mana without pain but keeps you clear of all of it.
On the draw, he'll have 12 cards and 6 mana before the Barbs kick in, with a maximum of 3 cards disposed of as land drops. He then adds 6 more cards on 9 more mana available, but 17 life to work with. 18 cards to date, minus 7 hand size and 5 land drops, means he needs to play out 6 already and 4 a turn thereafter to stay under the hand size limit. Each unplayed card costs him 2 life and each mana used beyond the first 6 costs 1 life.
FWIW...
sweetastic
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
when you put the top cards of your library to your graveyard, is it considered discarding? because this card and tramitize would own.
sethddickess
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(4 votes)
this card sucks. if your playing a deck that revolves entirely around discard, then first of all your going to lose, and secondly your opponent should be top-decking by turn 4. if your not playing an all-discard deck, then your paying 3 mana to possibly do 2 damage. retarded.
skew
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
AlphaNumerical said it well.
Oh, I wanted to play this card with Cephalid Coliseum as well - altough it would hurt you a bit, later in the game it would pay back nicely, I think.
givethepeopleair
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
If this card had a cmc of 1 or 2 it would be without a doubt a 5/5. At 3 mana it could cost me an early attacker/defender and also allows my opponent to play one of those cards i want them to discard since Im more likely to wait to play the discard until i can get the added bonus of health damage.
greenandblack
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
seems pretty good
xemuz
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
the bad things baout this card is that by the time you have the mana and the dscarding spells your opponent will probably have an empty hand, the best way for using may be in a blue black deck usgin Reckless Scholar 2 megrims and a 2 Recless Scholar can be devastating
Vahanian
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Megrim x2, Underworld Dreams x2, and Memory Jar. Game over you win.
Elviticus
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I always ask someone who praises this card for basic discard:
You have this and a Mind Rot in your hand, what do you play? They always say the Megrim. "Because then they lose 4 life." . . . .
Maybe in a silly casual Turbo/Rule of Law kind of deck where it's actually a win con, but otherwise a waste of space.
Erfil
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I love the combo with the Memory Jar.Try to use this card with things like The Rack and similars, it will make a good job.
CatsAreCthala
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Very controversial apparently. Not terrible, but not so good either.
This card will keep inspiring casual discard decks for years and years to come
SorianSadaskan
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The flavour text pretty much explains everything this card can do.
bijart_dauth
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
use it with a forced fruition to rely mess up there day. I agree with the rely long rants about the "its not for a discard deck", correct me if I'm wrong (as I'v never played not actually even seen one) but it seams like the point is to force your opponent to top deck making any strategy difficult, and so you need to send it fast before there combo would trigger, and this would just slow you Down. but with FF you make them draw to the extreme, witch in some cases people are willing to do if it fuels an important combo. but if that trigers even a turn late, you will usually wind up taking at least 28 damage as no combos take less than 2 cards (as it would then not be a combo) and most take at least 3. in other words, even if you played the first card as the last in your hand, you would still draw 7 and then 14 more for the other 2 dealing 28 at the end of turn. so ya, powerful, but the only obvious card i see it useful with is forced fruition. and so only 3-3.5/5
Wyldblayde
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I actually have a deck built around this and Underworld Dreams. Now I know that this card isn't great for a discard deck, but in my deck I only use mass discard spells that also fill up my opponents' hands. I use Wheel of Fortune, Windfall, 4 Wheel and Deal, 4 Urza's Guilt, and Memory Jar (plus 2 Magus of the Jar). Oh, here's a funny story: I played 2 of these in a 5 player game. The guy right before me played a Standstill hoping to stall for a few turns. I top-decked a Wheel of Fortune and won the game because of the extra cards my opponents drew from the Standstill. Hilarious!!
kittyspit
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
lolz 4 of this with 4 howling mines, jace beleren, and 4 underworld dreams on the field all at the same time 8D
thedarkheathen
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
DAMN it, I just bought a playset of these, and then found out Liliana's Caress comes out in M11 and does the same thing for one less mana. Caress will be great in my casual discard deck. T1 Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter, T2 Caress, swing for 2 damage, 2 life loss and a discard. Can't wait.
Mode
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Time to reconstruct your Megrim decks, people.
Unless you gain any benefit from dealing damage rather than just letting your opponents lose the life, make sure to exchange your playset for for Liliana's Caress - or simply use both cards :D
n00bmag1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I like it with Blightnings and later Roiling Terrain and Desecrated Earth. Not the best, but it does tend to stack some decent damage ontop of the land destruction. Contaminated Ground also.
NuclearMECCA
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Liliana's Caress technically makes it impossible to prevent damage. So yes, I would say Liliana's Caress IS strictly better. I wouldn't want to play both if Liliana is one mana cheaper, I'd rather have a howling mine Underworld dreams discard deck. If that deck rocked with Megrim than one less mana means one turn faster to start discard shenanigans.
Unless you absolutely need for life loss to technically be "damage", than Megrim beats Liliana's Caress, but not by much.
cressboy90
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Question... can this effectively be used with mind sludge?? since the words discard are on both? and if so, would it deal 2 damage for each card discarded or only 2 for more than one card discarded? any help would be appreciated... thanks
paladinbrice69
★☆☆☆☆ (1.2/5.0)(3 votes)
Liliana's Caress is the same as this card but one less to play.
Eved
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Posted 6/25/2010
Not strictly worse then Liliana's Caress. This does damage. The other does life loss. Figured I would say that nice and early. Anyway this is about to be severly outshined by the card I just said was not strictly better.
Edit : Posted 7/26/2010
@Nuclear MECCA
You should learn what "Strictly" means before you make that claim.
The ability Bloodthirst makes sure that Liliana's Caress won't be strictly better.
@Paladinbrice69
You're joking right?
Damage and life loss aren't the same thing.
circu196
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I usually try this with lore brokers and consult the necrosages, then a few specters just to round things out.
BatChew
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I still haven't had someone lay this out once and for all for me: say you have a Megrim out, and you play a spell that forces your opponent to discard 2 cards, does Megrim deal 2 damage for the instance of a card being discarded, or 4 damage for 2 for each card discarded?
A3Kitsune
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(1 vote)
This... can deal it's damage to a Planeswalker the player controls.
Jamesb8
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I doubt it A3Kitune beause it says that player and the planeswalker doesn't do the disarding but I may be very wrong.
NARFNra
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@JasonC Underworld Dreams is good as well
bladeofgrass7
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Does this count per each card or just each time they have to discard?
for example would Mind Rot hit them for 2 damage or 4?
RaginTiger
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@bladeofgrass7: judging by the ruling from Liliana's Caress, mind rot would hit them for two for each card discarded. I say this because if they had one card left in hand and you mind rotted them, they could only discard one, therefore they would only take two. If two cards were discarded, they would take a total of four, but it would have been from taking two twice (won't work with Pain magnification alone).
@BatChew and cressboy: a little late, but my response to bladeofgrass should answer yours as well.
@Jamesb8: Your opponent discards the cards and as a result, Megrim deals the damage to him/her. However, since Planeswalker rules state that when an spell or ability of yours would deal damage to an opponent, you may have it deal damage to a Planeswalker the opponent controls instead.
My opinion on the Megrim vs Liliana's Caress is that it depends on what deck you're running. If you running bloodthirst in your deck, then definitely go for the Megrim. Otherwise, go for the Liliana's Caress simply because life loss cannot be prevented. I run a red/black discard with several Lavaborn Muse, blackmail, mind burst, along with a couple of spectres (from onslaught block) to make sure damage is being dealt to the opponent whether they discard cards or not. Needless to say, had I not been on buy/play hiatus when M11 came out, I probably would've opted for the Liliana's Caress since I don't run bloodthirst.
DysprosiumJudas
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.6/5.0)(4 votes)
\Traumatize for instant victory in any blue/black deck.
MarlinFlake
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
@DysprosiumJudas No, just instant laughter at the noob who can't read. This card only deals damage when someone discards a card. Putting your library into your graveyard is not discarding.
Shinigami-2099
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
lilliana's caress... unless you're using an effect that uses damage boosters, is better in my opinion but we've all got our reasons... I'd run this with it in a mono-black discard... 4 & 4 just to be cheesey... BUT!!! 2 big notes I have to make
a big note to people playing a discard deck is that it's very difficult to make a multiplayer discard deck... & especially harder to make it work or win... my advice is to run a discard deck in 1 on 1s unless you're really intelligent & confident... people hate discarding... it puts a ginormous target on your head to pull this in a multi...
Note #2 a discard deck only works if your opponent has cards to discard... too many times have I sat across from a smug grin as my opponent plays creatures & goes well... no cards in my hand... try Howling mines & font of mythos for that
last suggestion I have to make is running this with the rack... skip the thought of gnat misers... (pointless cause you'll keep them without cards anyways if you can)... works well with underworld dreams too... especially with those howling mines/font of mythos
Angry_Puppy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Not bad, but I find just beating someone with discard until their eyes bleed is good enough on its own. Once you have someone to the point where you stop worrying about keeping their hand empty and start trying to kill them, they're thoroughly and completely screwed anyway.
Fenizrael
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The best way I've seen someone play this card is to play it in conjunction with underworld dreams, howling mine, and font of mythos. Unfortunately it ruins every single game when your opponent has everything down by turn 4.
MacBizzle
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Jamesb8:
"...Other sources can deal damage to planeswalkers. If a spell or ability you control would deal damage to an opponent, you may have it deal that damage to a planeswalker that opponent controls instead. So while you can't target a planeswalker with a Shock, you can have a Shock that targets your opponent deal 2 damage to one of his or her planeswalkers instead of to the player..." From WOTC's planeswalker rules page. This can hit a planeswalker.
This can be useful if you have something that triggers when someone takes damage, and Liliana's Caress just won't do.
MicrosizeMe
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Nonononono, this card is amazing! Those who say that you can't run a pure discard deck have never tried. In my discard deck, I run four of these and four of Liliana's Caress. In addition, I run 4 Quest of the Nihil Stone and lots of discard cards like Mind Rot, Guul Draz Specter, Raven's crime, and Mind Sludge. The cards I have make a deck under $25 that can deal more than 45 burst damage. It's absurd.
Don't believe me? Watch.
Turn 1, quest for the Nihil Stone. Turn 2, Liliana's Caress. Turn 3, Megrim. Turn 4, two more Liliana's Caress. Turn 5, Mind Sludge, hit for 40 damage plus the 5 from Quest for the Nihil Stone. Good game.
Play a blue/black deck with blue unblockable creatures and black creatures with fear. If you have a Megrim and a Larceny on the field, you do the normal combat damage from the creatures, plus the discard from each creature that gets past, which should be almost all of them. Then you get 2 more each because of Megrim. It takes some time to set it up, but it works well.
Remember, Larceny takes effect for each creature that hits them, and Megrim takes effect for each card they discard. These cards stack wonderfully, and they are all easily found cheap cards. The other good part is that they work well in solo. You can put them out one at a time as you find them and they have immediate payout while you build the rest of the combo. Those unblockable creatures will do considerable damage anyway.
ignaeon
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Jason: ...that sounds like the most beautiful deck ever...
To both those who like and those who dislike this card, I see many in the comments who think this only combos with discard. Yes, of course, with all the discard spells you'll want to hit your opponent with, they'll soon be out of cards. They'll start playing top-deck and there's nothing to trigger the Megrim.
It's not too rare to have by turn 5 or 6 (the combinations of discard, bounce, and counterspells along the way, prevent the opponent from getting much done in the first few turns) an Underworld Dreams, 2xMegrim, then if the opponent has no cards in hand, then bounce something with Unsummon or Boomerang, then Wistful Thinking for 14 damage. Likely a Mind Rot or Wistful Thinking was played the turn before with at least one Megrim on the field; so even if nothing else has been done, the opponent is just one more spell or creature attack (Hypnotic Specter, et al.) away from game over.
troll_berserker
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@WrathofShane; Your strategy was to put a enchantment on the board, pay , and waste two cards from your hand just to deal 6 damage? That doesn't seem like a good basis for a deck. Two Bump in the Night can do the same thing for without the enchantment. :/
Anyways, this card is nearly strictly worse than Liliana's Caress and is severely outclassed by The Rack in regular mono-black discard. By turn four when you can finally discard your opponent's hand to burn with this card, they'll barely have a hand left and you'll be running out of discard effects. In other words, its not good.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I used to run this with Sign in Blood. I used the sign to refill opponents hand when they had no cards left, followed by a mind rot on the same turn.
@Troll Beserk.
It won games in kitchen table top. The strategy was discard in general, and sign in blood lategame to take advantage of multiple megrims. It was quite powerful for the environment I was playing in.
Comments (77)
So it would be WONDERFUL with all those other cards. I'd put it in.
Even though I'm running a Black Green deck, this wouldn't help me, because in mine I'm usually the one discarding. (I have Ooze Garden, which tends to kill my own creatures, in a very strategically helpful way, with the right creatures and the right buffs and abilities.)
Pain and death to everyone it comes against.
Decks with a 100% focus on discard simply don't work. Especially those that rely on Megrim as a win/supplement to win-con. A black deck that runs heavy discard however, will work even in THG to an extent if played properly, without a single Megrim, which will often just be a dead card, as you want your discard to come really quick, before the 3rd turn, while it is still effective. Wasting mana accel on Megrim is a horrible idea.
What I'm trying to say is that Megrim is a combo piece, not a synergy piece. In a Burning Inquiry/Parasite/UW Dreams type deck, Megrim would rock, hard. Wistful Thinking would also combo fairly well. Needles to say, Memory Jar, Wheel of Fortune, Wheel of Fate, Winds of Change, Wheel & Deal all combo great and can practically insta win if you resolve it (especially the Jar and Deal).
Thing is, this card is overrated; it has only very narrow use in actuality, despite what this may suggest to newer deckbuilders. Running this just because you have some 'cool' discard, such as Tyrannize or Wit's End simply doesn't work.
Situationally a combo jewel, but for 90% of decks with discard, just like Dream Salvage, doesn't quite work as good as intended, as you'll need this in hand/play, slowing you down, and thats the critical advantage of discard - the way it strikes out of nowhere. Instead of this, try Extirpate.
3.5/5
i dont ever use megrim with discard cards like duress or hymns though because opponents simply just play everything.
For Standard this card's pretty much useless.
Then pretty much every opponent dies when he plays cards like Windfall and/or Wheel and Deal.
If you have 7 cards in hand, and tapped lands, thats 28 dmg, plus a MINIMUM of 2 per creature you draw. And thats only if he plays just 1 of each...
While it looks quite appealing to deal 7 damage with Blightning, deck building strategies that rely on Megrim as a win condition are just too reliant on lucky draws and run out of gas quickly. Eventually, your opponent won't have any cards left to discard. Once that happens, Megrim is once again useless.
This card really needs to be part of a combo where the opponent(s) is geting exelerated card drawing and discarding. Feels like it would fit nicely in a blue/black deck.
In no way is this a bad card when it comes down to it, and when it first came out I played it plenty of times in many versions of discard decks. It is still an excellent enchantment for the play! So for the most part: the less creatures I use the more likely I'd use megrim... chances are that I will be sitting behind a bunch of other enchantments as well... otherwise it's too easy to find better synergy for this play.
This card doesn't belong in typical black discard decks, the ones that work based on Blighting, Sed. Spectre, Mindrot, Liliana, etc. Those decks work by getting card advantage and emptying the opponent's hand. A card like Blighting or Mindrot gets card advantage because you spend one card to get rid of 2 opponent cards - though often one of them will be a land, that still slows them down.
It is also important to understand the effect of card discard effects on your opponent's mana tuning. A hand that has been hit twice by discard effects quickly finds itself with useless extra mana, because the number of land drops to playable cards rises. Quick decks are packed with relatively weak creatures and spells that need the usual card volume to spend the available mana in the first 5 to 7 turns. When they get half the usual card volume they play 2 drops with 5 or 6 lands in play. Your own deck can be tuned for the lesser slowdown that occurs from playing hand-attack cards insteads of creatures or cheap removal etc.
But a card that does nothing itself is the opposite of card advantage. Your deck works at cross purposes when you add this to it. You 0 for 1 yourself, instead of 2 for 1.
This does not, however, render the card useless. It just belongs in an entirely different kind of deck, one that - apparently a paradox for many here - does not turn on discarding but on *drawing*.
See, the opponent is going to discard more without you needing to play spells to cause it, if you just stuff him to the gills, beyond the 7 card hand limit. Howling Mine, Font of Mythos, Underworld Dreams, Ked. Parasite, Rune Flare Trap, Mana Barbs - if you want to add white, it would use Silence, Day of Judgment, Angel Song - that sort of thing - but R and B removal and direct burn can suffice and is easier.
You want him to never have enough mana or time to playmost of his cards, and nullify or simply stall, all to ignore his efforts to win on the board. Mana Barbs is the main card to combo it with, not Blighting.
Not many common decks can manage to get rid of 4 cards a turn by actually playing them, and a Mana Barbs can turn this into a kill. You can discard for free, he can't; neither can play cards without paying lots of life; and the cards just keep on coming.
The ideal opening is turn 1 Lightning Bolt to face, turn 2 Howling Mine, turn 3 Megrim, turn 4 Manabarbs. Then finish with a Keder Parasite and a Font of Mythos and let him squirm. If you are worried about your own life total you can switch the Font and Marbs drops; it gives him 4 more mana without pain but keeps you clear of all of it.
On the draw, he'll have 12 cards and 6 mana before the Barbs kick in, with a maximum of 3 cards disposed of as land drops. He then adds 6 more cards on 9 more mana available, but 17 life to work with. 18 cards to date, minus 7 hand size and 5 land drops, means he needs to play out 6 already and 4 a turn thereafter to stay under the hand size limit. Each unplayed card costs him 2 life and each mana used beyond the first 6 costs 1 life.
FWIW...
Oh, I wanted to play this card with Cephalid Coliseum as well - altough it would hurt you a bit, later in the game it would pay back nicely, I think.
You have this and a Mind Rot in your hand, what do you play? They always say the Megrim. "Because then they lose 4 life." . . . .
Maybe in a silly casual Turbo/Rule of Law kind of deck where it's actually a win con, but otherwise a waste of space.
Oh, here's a funny story: I played 2 of these in a 5 player game. The guy right before me played a Standstill hoping to stall for a few turns. I top-decked a Wheel of Fortune and won the game because of the extra cards my opponents drew from the Standstill. Hilarious!!
Unless you gain any benefit from dealing damage rather than just letting your opponents lose the life, make sure to exchange your playset for for Liliana's Caress - or simply use both cards :D
Unless you absolutely need for life loss to technically be "damage", than Megrim beats Liliana's Caress, but not by much.
Liliana's Caress is the same as this card but one less to play.
Not strictly worse then Liliana's Caress. This does damage. The other does life loss. Figured I would say that nice and early. Anyway this is about to be severly outshined by the card I just said was not strictly better.
Edit : Posted 7/26/2010
@Nuclear MECCA
You should learn what "Strictly" means before you make that claim.
The ability Bloodthirst makes sure that Liliana's Caress won't be strictly better.
@Paladinbrice69
You're joking right?
Damage and life loss aren't the same thing.
for example would Mind Rot hit them for 2 damage or 4?
@BatChew and cressboy: a little late, but my response to bladeofgrass should answer yours as well.
@Jamesb8: Your opponent discards the cards and as a result, Megrim deals the damage to him/her. However, since Planeswalker rules state that when an spell or ability of yours would deal damage to an opponent, you may have it deal damage to a Planeswalker the opponent controls instead.
My opinion on the Megrim vs Liliana's Caress is that it depends on what deck you're running. If you running bloodthirst in your deck, then definitely go for the Megrim. Otherwise, go for the Liliana's Caress simply because life loss cannot be prevented. I run a red/black discard with several Lavaborn Muse, blackmail, mind burst, along with a couple of spectres (from onslaught block) to make sure damage is being dealt to the opponent whether they discard cards or not. Needless to say, had I not been on buy/play hiatus when M11 came out, I probably would've opted for the Liliana's Caress since I don't run bloodthirst.
No, just instant laughter at the noob who can't read. This card only deals damage when someone discards a card. Putting your library into your graveyard is not discarding.
I'd run this with it in a mono-black discard...
4 & 4
just to be cheesey...
BUT!!! 2 big notes I have to make
a big note to people playing a discard deck is that it's very difficult to make a multiplayer discard deck... & especially harder to make it work or win... my advice is to run a discard deck in 1 on 1s unless you're really intelligent & confident... people hate discarding... it puts a ginormous target on your head to pull this in a multi...
Note #2 a discard deck only works if your opponent has cards to discard... too many times have I sat across from a smug grin as my opponent plays creatures & goes well... no cards in my hand... try Howling mines & font of mythos for that
last suggestion I have to make is running this with the rack... skip the thought of gnat misers... (pointless cause you'll keep them without cards anyways if you can)... works well with underworld dreams too... especially with those howling mines/font of mythos
"...Other sources can deal damage to planeswalkers. If a spell or ability you control would deal damage to an opponent, you may have it deal that damage to a planeswalker that opponent controls instead. So while you can't target a planeswalker with a Shock, you can have a Shock that targets your opponent deal 2 damage to one of his or her planeswalkers instead of to the player..."
From WOTC's planeswalker rules page.
This can hit a planeswalker.
Don't believe me? Watch.
Turn 1, quest for the Nihil Stone.
Turn 2, Liliana's Caress.
Turn 3, Megrim.
Turn 4, two more Liliana's Caress.
Turn 5, Mind Sludge, hit for 40 damage plus the 5 from Quest for the Nihil Stone. Good game.
Play a blue/black deck with blue unblockable creatures and black creatures with fear. If you have a Megrim and a Larceny on the field, you do the normal combat damage from the creatures, plus the discard from each creature that gets past, which should be almost all of them. Then you get 2 more each because of Megrim. It takes some time to set it up, but it works well.
Remember, Larceny takes effect for each creature that hits them, and Megrim takes effect for each card they discard. These cards stack wonderfully, and they are all easily found cheap cards. The other good part is that they work well in solo. You can put them out one at a time as you find them and they have immediate payout while you build the rest of the combo. Those unblockable creatures will do considerable damage anyway.
That is why this belongs in U/B with Wistful Thinking, Unsummon, and Boomerang, as well as Duress, Mind Rot, Hypnotic Specter, etc.
It's not too rare to have by turn 5 or 6 (the combinations of discard, bounce, and counterspells along the way, prevent the opponent from getting much done in the first few turns) an Underworld Dreams, 2xMegrim, then if the opponent has no cards in hand, then bounce something with Unsummon or Boomerang, then Wistful Thinking for 14 damage. Likely a Mind Rot or Wistful Thinking was played the turn before with at least one Megrim on the field; so even if nothing else has been done, the opponent is just one more spell or creature attack (Hypnotic Specter, et al.) away from game over.
Anyways, this card is nearly strictly worse than Liliana's Caress and is severely outclassed by The Rack in regular mono-black discard. By turn four when you can finally discard your opponent's hand to burn with this card, they'll barely have a hand left and you'll be running out of discard effects. In other words, its not good.
@Troll Beserk.
It won games in kitchen table top. The strategy was discard in general, and sign in blood lategame to take advantage of multiple megrims. It was quite powerful for the environment I was playing in.