A great tempo play on many levels - for 0, 1, or 2. Creates some serious virtual card advantage and can just shut some decks down. Sees play in all formats it is legal in.
MasterOfEtherium
★☆☆☆☆ (1.1/5.0)(12 votes)
Great Card Mirrodin Produced Some Big Combo Stoppers
inmypants22
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(5 votes)
shut my bant deck down when my cuzin used it for cmc 2. lol HSM 2
PrimeSonic
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Wouldn't this also affect your own spells? It looks to be that way since it doesn't specify which player. You'd have to design the deck around this card to not have its own effects stop you.
Cyphertalon
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
This card is good, but it is a double sided sword. It works on the caster as well. As long as you know your cards, though, you can pick a number that you dont use much.
Buridan
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(4 votes)
play with Trinisphere and find a way to put permanents into play without casting them
DonRoyale
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Hypergenesis can shake its fist all it wants, it's just not resolving. Period.
Gilder_Bairn
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
It's always fun to drop this with no charge counters on the first turn and watch your opponent cringe when he realizes that his entire combo involved Lotus Petal, Chrome Mox, and the like.
Well, I don't see this mentioned, but if you pay two different costs for X, you can have it counter two cmc level spells. As others pointed out though, this is a double-edged sword...
iPotato
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
@jonnythekid107: X can't have two separate values. You pay double what you want X to be.
Hate to be the one to tell a few about bad news but re read chalice and summoning trap... ur opponant has to controll chalice for 0 if u want to use the orni trap combo... n no not telepathy use jace or brainstorm...
Banjo253
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Affinity MUST DIE!
orisiti
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Playing with Buridans idea, this trinisphear, and man landsthe lands aren't spells, so they aren't (can't be) countered. Opponent isn't able to play anything, so you can just take the mana that will be piling up from not casting anything to convert your lands into creatures. Major flaw in this plan is the 6 mana needed, i suppose you could play it turn two, then proliferate. Just make sure trinisphere is out before the chalice has three counters.
Alexinatron
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I don't understand why the combo chalice of the void / power conduit doesn't work if the counterbalance / top does. Both permanents states that the effect triggers as a spell is cast, and not as it resolves. Is it because counterbalance effect unfolds in two steps ? I just don't get it.
Ah well, maybe it's for the better...
ZestuXIII
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Banjo: Actually, this thing is way more useful in shutting down TES/TPS. Affinity don't have much of a CMC focus. Much. CMC 2 could make it painful, especially if they opted to run Naturalize over Krosan Grip or Nature's Claim. That does happen to shut down Arcbound Ravager, Stoneforge Mystic, Fling, Ethersworn Canonist, and Vault Skirge. Not a bad spread, considering those are pretty key, regardless of which Affinity variant they run. I also like this against Landstill, set it to 2 to kill card advantage. Sure, there are issues getting it out and keeping it out, but time bought is time well spent.
Anyways, really math card. Love the filling outta this donut, man. 5/5
Salient
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Chalice of the Void's unique, interesting, playable, fun, flavorful, and game-changing, with art that establishes an appropriately haunting mood: the only thing this card is missing is a line of awesome flavor text, like Debtors' Knell has.
Everybody seems to forget Chalice for X = 2 is viable by turn three or so. You drop Chalice for X = 1 in the first game, between games your opponent decides to sideboard out some of their less essential 1cc stuff, you play Chalice for X = 2 on your third turn of the second game, they facepalm.
Is there any other card that's caused more actual literal facepalm reactions in the entire history of Magic? Even losing a key spell to a should've-seen-it-coming Mana Drain feels less embarrassing.
This card has a million obvious uses {make deck which avoids some particular low casting cost, sideboard four Chalice, bring them in when an opponent relies on spells with that casting cost, etc}. I've played it in more Legacy tournament builds than any other artifact, against a wide variety of decks. Playing Chalice for X = 2 against a 42 Lands deck was the most fun. (I had already played Pithing Needle for their Engineered Explosives.) A Lands deck can live without its 1cc spells, especially if it already put a Manabond on the board but a Lands deck without Life from the Loam is like a tank without treads.
Chalice for X = 0 is a solid play in Vintage as a Moxen/Lotus stopper (playing Mox Jet and Mox Ruby and then Chalice for X = 0 is one of the most satisfying opening plays I've ever experienced). Of course, Chalice for X = 1 is a fun sideboard option in Legacy for any deck that doesn't run all that many 1cc spells. (I don't think it'll get replaced by Mental Misstep, because decks that rely on 1cc spells never ran Chalice of the Void anyway. Chalice counters every 1cc spell and doesn't cost you 2 life.)
Chalice for X = {some amount equal to somebody's general's casting cost} is fun in Elder Dragon Highlander games (playing Chalice for X = 10 in a game with someone whose general is Progenitus is hilarious). What other card matches Chalice for EDH-style fun, uniqueness, and viability?
Paladin85
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Casting costs look high, but considering the amount of lock and opponent hate you will get by putting in the right value for x, this card is capable of protecting itself from removal and stopping your opponents most dangerous spells
If your opponent only packs Disenchant or Naturalize as their artifact removal, putting X at 2 (4 mana total) will keep your artifacts totally safe and you are free to toy with your opponent at your leisure. Be careful that this affects your cards as well
5/5
wiseguy20
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Would anyone like to confirm this thinking?
Scenario: opponent has this on the field with 1 charge counter on it.
If I play a 1cc spell that gets copied by some other card or ability, does the copy get countered too or just the original?
Or, if I cast a suspend card (or any card, for that matter) "without paying its mana cost" does it get countered?
Kragash
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Ah ben calisse!
adrian.malacoda
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@wiseguy20
Whether a copy of a spell is countered depends on how it was played - more specifically, whether it was cast or not. Mirari or Twincast, for example, simply puts a copy on the stack. The chalice's ability will trigger when the original is cast, but not when it is copied (although note that if X = 2 then it will also be triggered by casting twincast/reverberate itself). Isochron Scepter and Panoptic Mirror, although they also "make a copy" of a spell, actually cast that spell, so that will trigger the chalice.
How you cast a spell has no bearing on its converted mana cost, which will always be the same number for that spell. Force of Will's CMC will always be 5, even though no one will ever hardcast that.
Ninjacat
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
My friend cast this against my goblin deck for 1... I couldn't play 90% of my deck :(
So can you or can't you, say, Tap power conduit or tap and or sacrefice a coretapper to make the chalice counter just about anything that comes into play? Tapping abilities go on the stack and would resolve before a sorcery/instant, wouldn't they? Because I'm really thinking about adding this to my blue-black-red charge counter/proliferate deck (revolving around magistrate's scepter and darksteel reactor). Might replace Umezawa's Jitte with this, since I could play this for 0 and countering is a lot stronger than the Jitte's abilities, though they are more versatile... Some insight please :)
Other than that, this can shut down Storm Brain Freeze/Grapeshot decks (although with Seething Song gone, they may not be played after...), Soul Sisters, Red Deck Wins... and probably a whole bunch other than those.
Hunter06
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
That's... nasty... 4.5/5 Stars
Pandymonious
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Not as good as it used to be now that decks are packing Abrupt Decay and Ancient Grudge in the side board. I play it in my R/G Tron deck for funsies. Still like watching people sink when I cast it for 2 and drop a Spellskite and Wurmcoil the following turns.
blurrymadness
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
@Zotten Chalice triggers only when the number of counters matches on *casting* Coretapper et al. will not help in that regard. What they *do* do is allow you to main-deck CotV and customize what you'll be countering on the fly without tempo-loss waiting for enough mana. Putting this out T1 and something else out T1 is powerful. Configuring it with other artifacts so that it doesn't counter your own spells and then configuring it back so that it counters the appropriate spells of theirs makes it insanely useful without being a mana-sink, hence the strategy.
Imagine their sweeper is Pernicious Deed, but you don't know that yet. This is on the field and so is coretapper, you gitaxian Probe, see that you're about to get *nailed*, and instead make it counter 3 cost spells. Now your opponent has to find a way out.
SImilar things could happen with disenchant, shattering spree, and simlar. Run with Gitaxian Probe and things like Cabal Therapy to maximize it's usefulness by allowing you to continually view their hand without real tempo loss while locking them out.
Comments (31)
Ah well, maybe it's for the better...
I also like this against Landstill, set it to 2 to kill card advantage. Sure, there are issues getting it out and keeping it out, but time bought is time well spent.
Anyways, really math card. Love the filling outta this donut, man. 5/5
Everybody seems to forget Chalice for X = 2 is viable by turn three or so. You drop Chalice for X = 1 in the first game, between games your opponent decides to sideboard out some of their less essential 1cc stuff, you play Chalice for X = 2 on your third turn of the second game, they facepalm.
Is there any other card that's caused more actual literal facepalm reactions in the entire history of Magic? Even losing a key spell to a should've-seen-it-coming Mana Drain feels less embarrassing.
This card has a million obvious uses {make deck which avoids some particular low casting cost, sideboard four Chalice, bring them in when an opponent relies on spells with that casting cost, etc}. I've played it in more Legacy tournament builds than any other artifact, against a wide variety of decks. Playing Chalice for X = 2 against a 42 Lands deck was the most fun. (I had already played Pithing Needle for their Engineered Explosives.) A Lands deck can live without its 1cc spells, especially if it already put a Manabond on the board but a Lands deck without Life from the Loam is like a tank without treads.
Chalice for X = 0 is a solid play in Vintage as a Moxen/Lotus stopper (playing Mox Jet and Mox Ruby and then Chalice for X = 0 is one of the most satisfying opening plays I've ever experienced). Of course, Chalice for X = 1 is a fun sideboard option in Legacy for any deck that doesn't run all that many 1cc spells. (I don't think it'll get replaced by Mental Misstep, because decks that rely on 1cc spells never ran Chalice of the Void anyway. Chalice counters every 1cc spell and doesn't cost you 2 life.)
Chalice for X = {some amount equal to somebody's general's casting cost} is fun in Elder Dragon Highlander games (playing Chalice for X = 10 in a game with someone whose general is Progenitus is hilarious). What other card matches Chalice for EDH-style fun, uniqueness, and viability?
If your opponent only packs Disenchant or Naturalize as their artifact removal, putting X at 2 (4 mana total) will keep your artifacts totally safe and you are free to toy with your opponent at your leisure. Be careful that this affects your cards as well
5/5
Scenario: opponent has this on the field with 1 charge counter on it.
If I play a 1cc spell that gets copied by some other card or ability, does the copy get countered too or just the original?
Or, if I cast a suspend card (or any card, for that matter) "without paying its mana cost" does it get countered?
Whether a copy of a spell is countered depends on how it was played - more specifically, whether it was cast or not. Mirari or Twincast, for example, simply puts a copy on the stack. The chalice's ability will trigger when the original is cast, but not when it is copied (although note that if X = 2 then it will also be triggered by casting twincast/reverberate itself). Isochron Scepter and Panoptic Mirror, although they also "make a copy" of a spell, actually cast that spell, so that will trigger the chalice.
How you cast a spell has no bearing on its converted mana cost, which will always be the same number for that spell. Force of Will's CMC will always be 5, even though no one will ever hardcast that.
Other than that, this can shut down Storm Brain Freeze/Grapeshot decks (although with Seething Song gone, they may not be played after...), Soul Sisters, Red Deck Wins... and probably a whole bunch other than those.
4.5/5 Stars
Chalice triggers only when the number of counters matches on *casting*
Coretapper et al. will not help in that regard. What they *do* do is allow you to main-deck CotV and customize what you'll be countering on the fly without tempo-loss waiting for enough mana. Putting this out T1 and something else out T1 is powerful. Configuring it with other artifacts so that it doesn't counter your own spells and then configuring it back so that it counters the appropriate spells of theirs makes it insanely useful without being a mana-sink, hence the strategy.
Imagine their sweeper is Pernicious Deed, but you don't know that yet. This is on the field and so is coretapper, you gitaxian Probe, see that you're about to get *nailed*, and instead make it counter 3 cost spells. Now your opponent has to find a way out.
SImilar things could happen with disenchant, shattering spree, and simlar. Run with Gitaxian Probe and things like Cabal Therapy to maximize it's usefulness by allowing you to continually view their hand without real tempo loss while locking them out.