Pointed Discussion

Comparable to Kaalia, and some may argue that compared Jeleva lacks in power.

I think this is wrong because true power lies behind the fun and interactions of the cards. Man this card is way cooler. And may singelhandedly win games if one sees all the potential and expensive instants and sorceries in EDH.

My favorite of the generals, and made me settle for the right deck!

…Well, this seems weak until you look at stuff like Time Stretch, Plague Wind, Army of the Damned, Overwhelming Forces… well you get my point.

How good is she with Jace, the Mind Sculptor or Liliana Vess to set her up?!

I really think this was overshadowed once Nekusar was spoiled. Even then it was not that appealing.

Spells are more broken than Creatures. Generally speaking. The main reason she's worse than kaalia is that everyone knows what's going to happen when she attacks. What's that? a Cruel Ultimatum under her? Welps, I guess that's what's getting casted next turn. Whoopdie do. Kaalia on the other hand, has suprises up her sleeve. Note that Kaalia isn't "strictly better" because Jeleva is going to come down with instants and sorceries from you and your opponent's decks, not your hand. You aren't losing hand size and card advantage by playing Jeleva like you are Kaalia.

So, new Innistrad legend and it is not a legendary werewolf or Gisa or Geralf. Someone screwed up.

Basically a Grixis-centric Kaalia with a bigger butt. I cannot lie, I do like her a lot.......

Ironically the Commander that was spoiled first is not that great, but her deck is the most expensive

Underrated thus far. She basically gives you a second hand which you can cast from for free. She's going to wreak some havoc.

This is Double-edged sword, consider you are risking removing your own power cards every rind you cast her.

@Taudisban: I'd have loved to see cards of Gisa or Geralf, but I doubt either of them are 3 colors. Gisa's cards are all black and Geralf's are all blue (Geralf's Messenger has one of Gisa's glowing jigsaw puzzle pieces, so I assume it's delivering a message TO Geralf, not FROM him).

As for a legendary werewolf, Mark Rosewater has said production costs of double-faced cards are too high to be included in supplemental products. Besides, a double-faced legendary creature would interact weirdly with the legendary rules.

Even in Jeleva's precon, you can do stupid things.

T1 Land, Sol Ring
T2 Tap out for Obelisk of Grixis, play Izzet Boilerworks and bounce your tapped land (duh)
T3 Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge, exile something hilarious like:
1. Cruel Ultimatum
2. Army of the Damned
3. Incendiary Command
4. Opportunity
T4 Swing; gain massive advantage; everyone will gang up on you for the rest of the game.

I'm scared.

It's not that improbable either, considering there's three bouncelands you could use, a whole variety of mana rocks, and probably a use for that T1 double colorless (can't think of any other mana rocks ATM)

Her strength is not in her ability to power down the opponent with instants and sorceries. Her strength is in the fact that she is among the best mill cards in EDH, in that she can hit each of your opponents for 4, then 6, then 8, then etc mill every time you play her. Throw in Mind Grind for some ungodly amount of mana late in the game (and tutor to make sure you get it in your hand before you throw Jeleva out there) and it's essentially GG if you do it right. It's too bad her deck doesn't support her at all...why the heck are there four X spells in a deck built around not paying for the spells you cast!?

@MisterAction
Right to both of those, but the last commander precon had enemy color legends, perhaps they could have had new ally colored legends? could be something like "Gisa and Geralf, the Mad Twins" they could have been blue black or something. And as for a legendary werewolf, it could have been a red green normal card rather than a double faced card, it could have been Tovolar. He has been mentioned on cards before, and he is talked about in "The Planeswalker's guide to Innistrad" He is even known to never transform back to his human form, thus erasing the need for the back side. I was honestly hoping Tovolar would have showed up in the Jund deck, just so I could make a commander deck with ALL of the werewolves for fun (and the black could have been included because his howlpack has been known to use blood magic) Obviously this was all wish fulfillment on my part.

@Taudisban
i concur my werewolf tribal commander/edh deck needs a more fiting general than Ruric Thar, the Unbowed.

I'm not exactly sure how the rules work on her but I have a question about her effect.

If she comes out, I kill her, and then she comes back out, can she cast instants and sorceries from her first cast? Or is she treated as a whole new Jeleva upon recast and, as such, cannot use the old Jeleva's exiled cards?

I feel like this issue has come up in the past for me with other cards that someone said it was a whole new creature even if it was the same card, but I just want to be sure.

This card has some flaws, but overall she looks fun to play. I was hoping for a card like this to helm an aikdio deck that uses Mind Control, Rise from the Grave, and Memory Plunder effects to uae opponents resources against them and shake up how the deck plays from game to game by relyong on opponents. Before now there wasnt a really on-theme Grixis legend for such a deck. I do wish she didnt exile your own stuff, because the fun of her is what of other players you get to mess with, and I wish she could cast creatures as well to better connect with the Mind Control and Rise from the Grave parts of such decks, but oh well. She will be a fun legend anyway.

As for why WotC made her and not some other Innistrad character: they probably designed her first then went to flavor her, and she didn't fit with what is known of Gisa and Geralf. After all, Jeleva fills the Grixis aikido hole I mentioned above, and more necromancer legends dont fill nay holes. There not being a werewolf legend has nothing to do with Jeleva because a werewolf legend wouldn't be these colors.

If she casts a card that her effect exiled, does the card stay exiled or does it go to the graveyard? If it stays exiled, can she keep casting it as long as she stays on the battlefield?

I understand that the deck shes in doesn't support her as well as it could, but having played here in my local group, shes done pretty well. I guess that could be attributed to the fact that most of them are combo players and have some tasty spells to steal.

I love the art and the theme, I think I will be adding her to my arsenal, but she has some real issues you need to address to make her an effective general. Here are some observations on her:

1.) She has no protection or haste, but needs to attack to get in a useful effect. If an opponent sees her exile something powerful, she will be murdered mercilessly. The deck includes a Swiftfoot boots but almost no other means of protecting her. I would aim for a couple more protective equipments. Lightning Greaves is the most obvious. She won't function well as a voltron general, but you want to get her safe and attacking the turn she arrives.

2.) Keeping her safe isn't a huge deal. I know this contradicts my first point a bit, but don't be worried about her dying as long as you get your mana's worth. You want her to survive long enough to net you a few good spells for free, then when the good stuff's gone, let her die and bring her back for a new stash. Bonus points if you use her to cast a field-wipe. (Decree of Pain!) Just remember that she can only cast spells that were exiled the last time she entered the battlefield. Cards don't remember what they did before zone changes. (Except Skullbriar, the Walking Grave)

3.) Make your deck function without her. A big advantage I see in her is that a deck built around her does not necessary need her to win. What you need is a deck where your win-cons are instants and sorceries. Obviously you want more of a strategy, but the important part is that the high end of your mana-curve is mostly spells she can bring out and sling for free. Copy effects are great as well since the only thing better than 13 zombies for is 26 zombies for .

4.) She does not lower your card quality (statistically). This is a misconception I see on a lot of milling cards. Assuming your library is random and you won't be searching through it (No tutoring), and you won't run out of cards, there is no real downside to milling. She is just as likely to improve the card quality of your deck by removing things as she is to decrease it. It feels crappy when you lose a great bomb to mill, but just like there should be no difference drawing from the top or bottom of your library, taking four off the top doesn't effect your odds assuming drawing is all you do.

5.) She is not great for milling. She just isn't. Her mill effect is to everyone, which is cool, and it exiles, but its also a 1 to 1 ratio with mana spent. Total cards milled with her on each summon go: 4,10,18,28, 40, 54,70,88. That is 8 summons with the last one costing 18 mana. Doable? Yes. but not very efficient. I am sure if thats the strategy you are going for you should be able to get your opponents out before then, thats more the max times you can summon her before its suicide. The issue in my opinion is that there aren't many big mill bomb spells to cast with her. Traumatize is always there, but is worse and worse the later you pull it out. Other big, non- spells are Mind Funeral, Archive Trap, and Shared Trauma. It just lacks the bombs damage does in an instant/sorcery deck since most game ending mill spells seem to be X costers

Does her ability proc when cloned? such as Rite of Replication, or does the token aspect dictate she has no mana cost.

okay, does this work with insurrection? and i don't mean, "can i cast it with her?', that part is obvious, but can i cast it and attack with all the creatures i just stole? like Spinal Embrace "only during combat". that's what confuses me.

This is a lot of fun if you build the deck correctly. Focus on big spells with splashy impacts and backup ways to cast them with mana rocks like Chromatic Lantern and ramp such as Burnished Hart. Jeleva will occasionally hit spells like Cultivate from your opponents as well, so you can manage to cast her more than once since she WILL die a lot when your opponents see what gets put under her. Be sure to have ways to give her haste!
For more on-theme goodness, if you enjoy being clever, play extra combat effects like Fury of the Horde, World at War, and Savage Beating, and manipulation effects like Strionic Resonator. (This works with both triggers as well, double your exile count and cast two spells during combat!) Other clever ideas are Beacon of Unrest and Beacon of Destruction, since they shuffle themselves back in to be re-exiled, and cipher spells like Stolen Identity.
If you want to be a jerk, play every time magic spell you can think of. That, you didn't hear from me.

I built a Jeleva deck and am very pleased to say it is highly interactive and despite playing tons of high-power cards, is not oppressive. It's easy to lose sight of that when you play blue.

5/5 as a Commander.

Well, looks like Oona, Queen of the Fae will lost her general status in my milling commander.

@boochaca: No, you can't, since you've already declared your attackers to trigger her ability. Since attackers are declared simultaneously, you can't add any more; after they are chosen, then she is declared to actually BE attacking, and her ability triggers.
But, if you added ANOTHER battle phase... >_<

@PlanesMoyza: Oona may not stay the General... but I sure hope she stays in the deck! Jeleva and Oona make for good milling friends, with great extra effects.

Jeleva combo in non-commander: Fist of Suns to increase her cost... May seem counter-intuitive, but hey, if you want more (especially with more players), there's a way.

I don't exactly see why did this have to include "X". I don't see a kicker cost on her, so can you ever spend more than 4 mana casting her?

@Arachnos: Commander rules. Whenever you cast your commander from the command zone, it costs a cumulative to cast for each time you cast it from there.

Anyway, I like how this is the one commander that you don't mind losing to removal. If you end up exiling everyone's topdecks, you can disrupt their plays and potentially turn their own cards against them. Take note that in casting those spells, they end up in the graveyard, so running Flashback support will also help get mileage. (Of course, if Jeleva's killed before you can cast them, the cards are gone forever)

A pose to match the flavour: she hits the board and everybody is upset by the potential to get hit with their own cards,

And then her pose says "look at all the f*cks I give"

5/5 for flavour :)

She is honestly busted in half. I've been looking for her deck for a while, but I haven't been able to find a copy. Every place I got to is sold out. I will find her deck and make the most awesome instant and sorcery deck possible. I thought she needed to connect to cast spells. This is even better then I imagined.

Weirdly, I'd call her the best AoE milling general. She doesn't need to be played in strict mill, but she supports it.

Circu, Dimir Lobotomist is not bad, but he supports standard 60 card decks rather than EDH with his second "can't play exiled cards" ability. Also, playing a spell to exile possibly 2 cards from one library is... well, it's not bad, but it can take a while.

Szadek was interesting since you could mill for large amounts and improve how much you do next time. The problem is that milling 5 or 10 in a 100-card format because you dealt damage to them with a 7-cost creature is... well, maybe not the most cost-effective means of doing so... especially when against more than 1 opponent.

Ambassador Laquatus is fine, but isn't commander quality. You're missing , and there are a lot of mill spells that are or support . He is rigged with Training Grounds, though.

Geth, Lord of the Vault, suffers from the same fate as Laquatus, except he is more of a reanimator general than a mill general. Honestly though, I'd rather use him to mill butts off people: Black has lots of mana sources like Crypt Ghast or Nirkana Revenant. Still isn't a good all-around miller.

Oona, Queen of the Fae was probably the best mill general. She can't target multiple players (don't tell me what to do!), but she can hurt one person very well.

Mirko Vosk is nice, but was made to be fair. Milling for more than 15 a turn (as Oona can do) can be overwhelming. He can go anywhere from 4 to... 58 (if they played 40 lands, shuffled everything else in their deck, and played Trench Gorger), but expect around 10-12. I also think his name is very Balkan. And Balkan names are awesome (for example, my middle name is Dragan. Freaking sick, right?)

Nekusar isn't a mill general, since he's all about drawing stuff. Sure, you might put play Windfall in your mill deck, but you wouldn't play Tunnel Vision in Nekusar. Nekusar also isn't a cool South-Eastern European name...

As you know, I just referenced basically every popular mill general. None of them are as much of an AoE miller as Jeleva is. And most of them can't play Wheel of Fortune! WINNING!

well she could be a win con by herself even without attacking, if just keep playing her over and over again lol

Had a bit of a dispute here; hoping for an answer. Once you cast a spell exiled with Jeleva, what happens to the spell card? One guy says you can re-cast it every time she attacks until she dies, and another says it exiles for good. Any insights would be helpful, as we don't have a judge handy and I'm not sure where in the rules to look it up. Thanks.

So here's a question I have. I know that you can exile an opponent's commander with this if they end up in your opponent's deck, and that they go right to the command zone when that happens. But if an opponent's commander has flash, could you then cast the exiled commander for free from their command zone?

I couldn't find an official definition of flash online besides "you may cast this spell any time you could cast an instant". In this situation, the commander would be cast as an instant. Then again, does the "you" only apply to the owner?

This probably doesn't work, but I'm always looking for loopholes.

@WutLawjick

It wouldn't work, because having flash designates time restrictions not card types. Jeleva can't cast creature cards.

@ timmymac1978

Neither, it resolves normally and goes to the graveyard

Seriously, don't underestimate her. I cast her and exiled Cruel Ultimatum, Terminate, and Soul Manipulation from my library. Those were epic to reuse. But I also got Castigate from an opponent and Rampant Growth from another. Options for days! I just kept using Cruel Ultimatum though lol

After you cast a card with her ability, its put into the graveyard (unless another effect says otherwise) just as if you cast it from anywhere else. You can only actually use something with her once, barring putting stuff from your graveyard back into your deck.

Mystical Tutor? Memory Lapse? Without stuffy ol' White around to grouse at you, you'd best get to rigging her little game.

So what happens if you flicker her? Does it count as 0 mana being spent on her?

@Legendxp: Correct, since she entered the battlefield without being cast.

Just use the Nekusar that came with the deck. Sure, you'll have to pay for all of your instants and sorceries, but at least you'll win.

So....
What happens if she casts Scrambleverse for me and I end up not controlling her when the dust settles? If a creature that is attacking come under the control of someone who can't attack that turn is it removed from combat?

Running scrambleverse because i like moments like that... but i lik eto get my rulings straight first ;)

Is that Lady Gaga?

The best play I've ever had with her was in a three player game. I hard casted Traumatize, Forked it to the other guy, then swung with her firing off a Rise of the Dark Realms.
Good times, good times.