Pointed Discussion

My friend got this guy mixed up then he told me about it it was the same except it was indestructible with the phylactery the counter on the artifact and no sacrifice wording. Which was overpowered but then I thought it wouldn't really matter vampires have just screwed the black creature diversity over

Two of them with two artifacts = one artifact dies, they both live.

I'm waiting to see just how people plan to break this thing. I quite like it, personally.

Very interesting card,
And a pretty solid one, too.
Get out your Demon's Horn and play this guy.
Artifacts are a hellova lot harder to get rid of than creatures.
Turn three 5/5 is nothing to scoff at.

As a green and white mage, i'm a bit concerned about the sheer awesomeness of this card. It may be my favorite card in the set. The dark side is tempting me.

Maybe they'll reprint darksteel citadel in scars of mirrodin.

Interesting; a large threat immune to Control Magic effects.

This guy is going into my W/B beatdown deck :D
think well and you'll see the combo. P.S. the combo isn't for standard

@infernox10, comon man, hard to remove artifacts? it's a counter... Æther Snap, Vampire Hexmage, and the nice Acidic Slime...

@1919, Dark Ritual? For a turn 1 invincible 5/5'er? I might start putting these in my sleeves... =-P Also the cheapest cmc for a land destroyers were 4. While the cheapest is either Sinkhole for 2 black.

There are a lot of generic artifacts in this set. I am interested in what will come of this. Love the {B}{B}{B}

Could be really good or really bad. It depends on how much love Black gets in Scars.

Just put the Phylactery counter on a Darksteel Citadel and you're good to go.

I think this is the best designed card flavor-wise in years. I really like this guy. I hope a new extended thing pops up or something where I can really abuse him.

Also I was thinking about using him in a UB artifact agro deck, but I duno.

==

Obvious synergy with cards like Darksteel Citadel (Swamp and Urborg XD )

or

unkicked Everflowing Chalice

He will probably get better in scars, but at the same time have a tougher time sticking due to more artifact hate.

This card singlehandedly forced my decision to add black to my blue/artifact deck. My artifacts always end up indestructible anyway thanks to Darksteel Forge, so it'll hopefully work well. The only problem is the non-splashable mana cost.

Vault of Whispers, to Dark Ritual, to Phylactery Lich. And that's just the basics.

I like.

The first thing I thought of with this, was to stick a Worldslayer on him, and swing away...

I love this card, even if it has no practical applications in any format right now. 5/5

notice that if you have some of them, and some artifacts you just need to have one artifact with a counter on it for them to survive.

Why make crap vampires as our commons and uncommons and tease us with awesome zombies like this!?

Awesome flavor.

Horcrux lich!

Could stick it in a vampire deck with Blade of the Bloodchief for kicks.
Block my 5/5 or my growing vampires?

I love that this guy is kind of like if they turned Voldemort into a Magic card. :D

Pulled a foil one at the pre-release and it is just so sexy. What a great card!

Stoneforge Mystic into a basalisk colar, Phylactery Lich..... Grin!!! Made posible with prophetic prism!!

looks great. totally sucked at the pre-release. seriously. he got pacified twice. I was so disappointed. I'm hoping to see him really do his thing in some constructed deck somewhere. I love the flavor and the idea.

since this and demon of death gate came out i have ben tempted to add black to my other wise naya colerd regime

Flavorful, dangerous, and awesome to look at. Nothing here I don't like.

Also useful in the late game, since he's as big as the Phyrexian Negator, costed almost the same, and doesn't punish you horribly for making him take damage. Indestructible means awesome blocker (or no-fear attacking), and since you're obviously running some artifacts you should have something good out. Better yet, put the phylactery counter on something LESS frightening so your opponent has to decide whether the Basilisk Collar or the Phylactery Lich is the bigger threat to him.

Mmmm *drools* so much flavour. I hope this card can be constructed, I really do.

I WANT ONE! What an awesome tribute to Liches from D&D!!! I hope I land one at tomrorow's pre-release!

EDIT: I unfortunately didn't get one at the pre-release/release events. :-( I did, however, have the pleasure of being severely owned by one that was wielding a Sword of Vengeance. Despite how badly he skewered me, I still love this card. Two minor nits to pick -- why is he a zombie and not a skeleton? Even bigger question: why is he not a Zombie or Skeleton WIZARD?

I love this card one of may top 10 pic. ever plus with Demon horn and its indestrustible not to bad!!

Turn one: Swamp, Ornithopter, Dark Ritual, Phylactery Lich... LOL

@ Nate_Prawdzik : He's not immune, really. Control Magic would just sacrifice it.

Wow, this is a good card. When I started around the end of Tempest block into Urza Block, I was all about Negator but I always hated his drawback.( Negator is an easy backfire) Then I got Scuta, not as bad of a drawback and he's a zombie! Now they give me this guy, all of the perks(trading trample for indestructible a plus) and all I have to do is keep an artifact in play? Thanks Wizards!

Omg, I want...I want, with the darksteels its great, most efficents to use with this (with no darkrits) would actually be DarkSteel Pendant, a 1 drop artifact that is indestructible :)
although you get him on turn three instead of 1, still its pretty powerfull

This is the best artwork I've ever seen on any magic card, not to mention how amazing it is. I play white and this is still one of my favorite cards in m11

I'll start pumping my money towards these guy 'cause they is just overpowered.

I get it now. Card it tied to an artifact. So ornithopters could be a good early turn play to get these guys out, but eventually you want an indistructable artifact out there that would survive... I'm thinking who cares it's a 5/5 indistructable. Play the onithopters and do an all out assault early in the game looks like a weenie black/artifact deck to me. Might be fun with ravenous rats. Give you that fresh out of the grave effect :).

A cla$$ic black risk card IMHO. You get a 5/5 indestructible for 3 but you expose your a$$ for a 2 for 1ning.

@persecutor WotC Love you

this is so dope. I will break this!!!!

Lol, Splinter Twin?

Stop making Harry Potter references. Horcruxes aren't an original idea, they're basically a copy phylactery jars of more clas$ic fantasy literature. Liches have been using phylacteries long before Voldemort brought them into the popular eye.

Swamp - Dark Ritual - Darksteel Ingot pass. Swamp, Lich, put it on counter on the Ingot : ) Not impossibly great in standard (right now) but, he can be if worked right. I imagine him being INSANE once Scars hits the floor.

Turn three: Darksteel ingot+Phylactery Lich=Death

I got this, Dark Ritual, and Ornithopter on my opening hand the other day. LMAO.

Right now there aren't many reliable uses of this in standard; it's too black-heavy to be played in most Esper decks, and that aside there just aren't enough artifacts to build a good deck. You could build a FUN deck, but don't expect it to be competitive.

When Scars of Mirrodin comes out, however, I expect this guy to be completely scary.

Scars of Mirrodin is going to have a Darksteel Axe, it'll most likely be some Bonesplitter variant judging from the art. Look forward to it.
This guy is still pretty amazing right now, and the flavor is great. It's difficult for monoblack to include him for lack of decent artifacts to stick his soul or whatever in, but I'm sure that'll change with Scars, I really can't wait for retarded awesome toys to flood into standard.

I got a question. If Phylactery Lich gets Act of Treason placed on it and that person has no artifacts would Lich instantly be sacked?

Yes Soldead, that is how we played it. I played Mind Control on the Lich and as I had no control of any phylactery counters because of no artifacts in play the Lich was sacrificed.

will this work with the proliferate ability introduced at scars of mirrodin? hope it is :)

I'm personally waiting for Darksteel Axe. That's what's going to make this card epic.

@borgiey: What? I see no purpose to doing that.

I guess scars is going to have crazy artifact destruction because this guy seems a little too powerful to me...

I'm getting hot and sweaty just looking at this guy... Add in the potential for turn one this + Dark Ritual + Ornithopter, and my pants just got a little tighter.

It's a shame he gets totally nerfed by Infect and Revoke Existence. Still, having multiple Liches with counters on different artifacts makes him tricky to deal with.

My first rare. (Yeah, I started buying cards recently)

I feel like he should've been a zombie wizard, given what liches actually are.

Put the counter on worldslayer and then equip worldslayer to him. Good game!

I'm seeing a lot of exiling come this way...

Better yet, yank the bastard away with Act Of Treason, beat them over the head with it, then play Bone Splinters, chuck Phylactery and destroy another one of his creatures. All that for 4 mana.

@ Arachibutyrophobia Because he costs and needs an artifact to precede him on earlier turns, making him impossible to throw into just any old deck -- you need to build around him, and in a monoblack deck with artifacts, to boot. Recall that most artifact support is in blue.

He could have been mythic, but I am very glad he is not. It shows that wizards has some decency to throw budget players a bone now and then.

hes not so cool couse you cant play him if you dont control artifacs

Damnation!!!!!!!! Pimp co Caine

One of my favourite ideas for Phylactery Lich is to have one Lich already in play, then use Liquimetal Coating to turn it, for the turn, into an artifact to put a second Lich's phylactery counter on. Also, I like the possibility of returning the Lich to your hand to play it again, putting a phylactery counter on another artifact, making it even harder to kill.

As for first-turn combos, I wouldn't use Ornithopter or Memnite; they're both too vulnerable. I would go for an Accorder's Shield or an artifact land.

use with mycosynth latic, target himself. He is indistructible as long as he exists.

It doesn't feel like a lich. Lichs are powerful wizards, not big dumb beatsticks. Wizards got the part about being tied to a phylactery right, but a 5/5 that just turns sideways is all wrong.

@2blu4u: Or not. The Lich dies the moment you gain control of it, because YOU don't control any artifacts with Phylactery counters on them.

With so much Infect around, indestructibility is not as good as it should be..

Its Voldemort except it only has one horcrux.

Turn 1, Vault of Whispers,Dark Ritual, Phylactery Lich.

Badass.

Darksteel Relic might help him out a bit, allowing you to spend turns one and two on something more immediately useful than darksteel axe.

In response to the trigger, Coat him with Liquimetal.

Swamp+ Darksteel Relic+Dark Ritual +This, on turn 1 = AWESOMENESS!

Hex Parasite laughs at this card.

Getting him out with only 1 Dark Ritual on T1 speaks more to the power of Dark Ritual I think than this guy, who needless to say, is outstanding. 4/5. I wanted to give him 5/5, but it's true, Hex Parasite completely ruins it.

@Superllama12: If you Liquimetal a Lich and put a phylactery counter on it, the counter remains even after the Lich reverts to being a nonartifact creature. Thus, he'd be completely indestructible. Unfortunately, you can't Liquimetal a Lich you just cast fast enough to put the counter onto itself because the card says "AS" it enters the battlefield, which means you choose the phylactery as part of the Lich's resolution. Still a good card, though (Vault of Whispers, anyone?).

Have to be careful with this guy as I removed his artifact right after he was cast. Putting the counter on a "Darksteel...." whatever is what is going to help save you and keep him on the battlefield.

Giant Fan can put the phylactory counter on him (or turn any other counter into a phylactory counter and put it on him) without having to liquimetal him first.

whoa, D&D flavor right here.

the phylactery is what liches use to store their life force

I got that Lich a Phylactery.
Liches love Phylacteries.

Here is a question for the EDH players out there. If you general is in your graveyard or in the command zone do you still "control" it?

If so could a Phylactery Counter on Skullbriar, the walking grave(no matter if it is in your graveyard, command zone or exiled) leave the Lich indestructable on the field? Something to ponder....

I've noticed that nobody has suggested using fate transfer to put the counter on phylactery lich

He's a 5/5 for 3 mana. Ignoring him being indestructible, that's pretty amazing. Black rarely gets cards on the curve, and even more rarely gets them above it.

Sure, he has a drawback of requiring an artifact to survive, but it's an interesting and flavorful drawback, and one that makes the game interesting. Your opponent can't destroy him in the ordinary fashion, but he has the option to destroy the artifact/remove the counter.

Put the counter on Black Lotus.

Awwwwww yeahhhhhhh stupidity FTW.

@ concerned fool...read the rules yourself...

Lethal damage, damage from a source with deathtouch, and effects that say "destroy" won't cause an indestructible creature to be put into the graveyard. However, an indestructible creature can be put into the graveyard for a number of reasons. The most likely reasons Phylactery Lich would be put into a graveyard are if it's sacrificed (perhaps due to its last ability), or if its toughness is 0 or less.

Therefore the rules of the game work like this...lightning bolt + shock aimed at the lich reduces his toughness to 0...therefore it is not rubbish its a direct interpetation of the rules


I love hyped JANK...This card is one of the best representations of great artwork gone to waste on a useless card. A true "paper tiger" looks beautiful but its flawed game mechanics are glaring...

"Indestructible" I think not...A great card if you want to waste space in your deck and get a turn or two behind casting him out.. Four easy and cheap ways to make it go away...

1. Pacify or Arrest...Great I'm indestructible but now I just sit here waiting for time to pass me by...
2. Burn it! 1 lighning bolt + Shock...wow 2 red mana and one burned up lich smokin in a graveyard.
3. Dismember, -5/-5...again right to the graveyard with a one card counter/kill for the same cost to put him out.
4. Hex parasite or Vampire hexmage targeting the artifact you put his counter on..oops lich sacked before he can do a damn thing...

So really not that I'm over hating but come on... Are we not just over-hyping a JANK card here over the over-rated word "indestructible" here or what?

and so...

5/5 for 3, who cares...Obliterator is 4 mana as is Plague sliver for a 5/5 that doesn't need extra hoopla that is a waste of time ...people just over hype the indestructible aspect...It dies or can be neutralized like anything else period...To cast him its 3B and whatever artifact you cast out with him...if you waste a ritual on him your up to 6 potential mana for this chump...Play Phyrexian obliterator and lightning greaves if you want a great artifact/creature combo that's a true unblockable beater that hurts for the 6 mana cost.

Hey I cast indestructibility on my 1/1 memnite..."oh bad ass he's indestructible... look out"!! someone puts a 1/1 counter on him "oh man in my graveyard"... and I had em indestructible too...See my point? Indestructible is a misconceived word and a lousy game mechanic

@ mtghrg once again.

Seriously, try reading the rules, just once, it doesn't take long, although in your case it might. Burn spells cause damage, they do not reduce toughness. If you want to reduce toughness you need to drop -1/-1 counters on it, or use a spell that gives it -X/-X. It's all there in the book mate, just take a browse through it some time, get someone else to help you if you have difficulty with any of the bigger words.

@ mtghrg you wrote:

"Indestructible" I think not...A great card if you want to waste space in your deck and get a turn or two behind casting him out.. Four easy and cheap ways to make it go away...

2. Burn it! 1 lighning bolt + Shock...wow 2 red mana and one burned up lich smokin in a graveyard.

Have you even read the rules of this game?

Lethal damage does not cause an indestructible creature to go to the graveyard, I suggest you learn how to play the game before launching a tirade of such absolute rubbish.

@ llamamilk4 you wrote:

I've noticed that nobody has suggested using fate transfer to put the counter on phylactery lich

Thats not a bad idea at all but it will only work if you placed the Phylactery counter on an artifact creature, or animate the artifact using something like March of the Machines, as Fate Transfer can only target creatures.

When I first saw this card, I got so excited, I started to Phylactate.
...
I'm sorry, that was just awful.

and then there was Dismember D;

mtghrg: In response to your essay, I'm going to tap out for an even longer essay--

1. Yes, white and blue control effects that nullify creatures' usefulness w/o trying to outright kill them are a great way to get around Indestructible. See? I'm being nice by starting with what you got right.

This is why you use Harry Potter's Whispersilk Cloak with any creature you intend to attack with in every game ever.

2. Red Burn Spells, Black 'destroy target X' spells, Wrath effects of most variations, and combat damage (i.e., just about every form of killing things in Limited ever, plus a majority of most people's constructed game plans) Do. Not. Work.

3. If an effect uses the '-' sign, either with counters or Dismember/Infest style, it can get rid of Indestructible things. These cards are virtually all Black, and while they are specifically designed as a way to help Black in the mirror because Doom Blade doesn't work, they are fairly easy to get around. In this case, simply play any of a number of Zombie Lords. Black Sun's Zenith is far and away the most powerful '-' kill card I know of. See? There's me being nice again with a good example of a card that proves one of your points.

4. Narrow Sideboard Answers have Narrow Sideboard Answer Answers. Or in this case you can use a very common trick called Fighting Fire with Fire, and bring your own Black Sun's Zeniths as a great reliable way to get rid of almost any problems and clear the way for the Lich. 5 toughness should see him through the turn even after Zenith-withering.

5. This creature is undercosted for it's power/toughness, and it has a relevant ability that lets it survive if it 'goes off', but it plays like a one-card combo in terms of 'how do I make this good' and 'how do I beat it'. It is nowhere near as good as things like Baneslayer, which are more killable, because it is hard to splash and therefore harder to support, and in the end it is 5 power which is really probably hitting turn 4, not turn 3, which isn't very hard for Green decks to mimic or outdo.

I think your evaluation of Indestructible (over rated) is correct mainly because we now have a lot more Exile effects, and after JTMS nobody will ever forget about Unsummon again. Ever. But you definitely did not do sufficient research to prove your point, and you got under-starred for it. Pretty much the only thing you were actually wrong about is #2-- but that happens to be kind of most of the point about Indestructible-- that only the most off-beat removal strategies work against it, and decks that use enough effects like that to make it matter don't usually end up with the cards they need in Standard.

Look up Darksteel Colossus- he is probably the most important card with this keyword ever printed, and he's been around quite a while. You can find everything you need to know about Indestructible there.

In the mean time, I firmly stamp Phylactery Lich with the mark of 'For Casual', because hardball decks can steamroll him, but he is very strong if you are willing to jump through hoops and work around his drawbacks, and the drawbacks give you an ironic advantage because he's not good enough for people to be expecting him. Better than Phyrexian Obliterator for sure, unless you are definitely casting Dark Ritual the same turn, because heavy colored requirements make cards much slower than 4XX cards, as seen by the Titan Cycle.

As for the question of 'where to put the Phylactery counter?''
....
Lich's Tomb.

Personally though, I do kind of wish Lightning Bolt alone among Red cards had some Harry Potter-related errata to beat this card. Cuz it's Voldemort. For the nerdy lulz.

Everyone else- after you read my comment, re-read his. He was too overconfident which made his mistake worse, but I think he was at least right enough to get 2 or 3 stars. Half a star is sort of bull.
Indestructible is lousy in the sense that, no it's not a perfect defense so it's misleading- but an actually perfect defense would make for a pretty boring game, unless you are intending to put it together at combo-speed and then also try an aggro-speed violent win. That's asking for a lot of high powered cards in the same deck, so either the game is slow and boring, or we get power creep and in a year your cards look like crap compared to what they had to print to beat them. Indestructible is fine just the way it is, except maybe it should be renamed 'Really Hard But Not Impossible To Kill'

Try using any card with "Darksteel" in it's name. Darksteel Relic would be ideal since it has no mana cost, but then again it has no other use and so would only be useful if you draw cards that use it as a combo.

You can't really argue with 5/5 indestructible for 3. It's really good, as long as you're running artifacts in your deck. I've put artifacts in my Zombie deck for the first time ever because of this guy - Ghoulcaller's Bell has some sinergy with the rest of his tribe. Darksteel Relic and Vault of Whispers were close seconds.
I'd also like to note how awesome it is when something is so flavorful that it doesn't any kind of flavor text. Why isn't this a Zombie Wizard, though?


@mtghrg: I don't believe I'm actually degrading myself replying your comment, but it disgusted me so much it seemed impossible not to.
It doesn't die to damage, as Concerned_Bystander has already noted. So no Lightning Bolts.
Indestructibility is great. If don't agree, it is either because you have never actually seen an indestructible creature entering play or because you're a complete retard.
And don't dare to mention Lightning Greaves. Everything is good when equipped by greaves.

Why isn't this a Wizard?

Dies to Clockspinning, of all things!

This + Mirrorweave = All opponent's creatures die and you have an army of 5/5s.

@mtghrg

I'm pretty sure mtghrg doesn't understand the rules of the game. No, Phylactery Lich won't die to damage. No indestructible creature will die to damage.

T1: Swamp, Darksteel Relic, Dark Ritual, Phylactery Lich
T2: Island, Storm Crow

GG

@kolomeha typically the only zones you control objects are the battlefield and the stack, (the only exceptions are Planes, Vanguards, Schemes and Emblems in the command zone, which you can also control).
So to answer your question, Phylactery Lich would be sacrificed since Skullbriar would not be controlled by you in the graveyard or the command zone as your general, even though it still has the phylactery counter on it.
109.4 from the Comprehensive Rules
109.4. Only objects on the stack or on the battlefield have a controller. Objects that are neither on the
stack nor on the battlefield aren‘t controlled by any player. See rule 108.4. There are three
exceptions to this rule:
109.4a In a Planechase game, a face-up plane card is controlled by the player designated as the
planar controller. This is usually the active player. See rule 901.6.
109.4b In a Vanguard game, each vanguard card is controlled by its owner. See rule 902.6.
109.4c In an Archenemy game, each scheme card is controlled by its owner. See rule 904.7.

Basically he's a leatherback baloth that's triple black instead of triple green, and dies to artifact removal instead of creature removal (yeah, he's indestructible and baloth, but given 5 toughness it's pretty hard to kill him anyway). While artifact removal is not as common, if your artifact does die you just got 2-for-1'd.

Unless scars has an indestructible and cheap artifact, I doubt this guy will make a big impact. I think he'll be fine for the first game in a set, but be prepared to board him out when your opponent boards in artifact hate.

Put it on Darksteel Citadel.

Turn 1: Vault of Whispers instead of swamp. Then Dark Ritual this guy out there. =)

O-Naginata and/or Infiltration Lens look just about perfect for this guy. Or give him evasion of any sort, even Kitesail should do the job.