Blaze was pwned more. Fireball can atleast split it's damage.
busdude
★★☆☆☆ (2.9/5.0)(5 votes)
Very good in limited but crap for constructed, just a glorified blaze.
In the meantime, Green gets an overpowered tutor that's viable in almost all formats... Red gets shafted on damn near every cycle nowadays, with probably only Pyromancer's Ascension being a recent exception.
FragNutMK1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Score, more X-burn!
Kryptnyt
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(7 votes)
"Ok, so we're making a red X cost card for a cycle. all the others have neat abilities!" "make it a Blaze only a little better." "But we do that in like every blo--" "DO IT NOW"
Hyroko
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(4 votes)
for those who are dissing this as a glorified blaze, let me compare.
blaze: x damage. no other abilites....
this card: blaze + reusable + EXILE BURNT CREATURE IF IT DIES...... how you can even begin to simply compare it to a horible blaze is beyond me. Blaze is the worst of all the red X burn spells.
fireball split damage disintegrate exile burnt creature if it dies. you can even cast this new card for only 1-2 damage so it doesn't sit in your hand like the old mirrodin cycle sun cards. and with 4 of them you are almost guaranteed not to mill out since you can cast them for 1 even and put it back in your library.
Keiya
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(2 votes)
While I don't consider it at as good as Banefire, it's certainly much better than Blaze and better than Disintegrate for it's reusable effect if it's not countered.
sarroth
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(5 votes)
@Keiya: I agree, I generally like Banefire better for the screw-you-blue.
I also disagree with the "oh, it's just a blaze" mindset. White Sun's Zenith is what white gets all the time, Blue Sun's Zenith is what blue gets all the time. So really only 2 of the zeniths are neat abilities that aren't done extensively.
I for one love this card.
Ragamander
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
In Limited, it's a very useful tool. VERY useful.
In Standard Constructed until October 2011, the question is whether it's better than the much-higher-total-damage-yielding (and also instant-speed) Comet Storm. Red Sun's Zenith's best selling point is that it grants Mono-Red the ability to permanently dispose of a Vengevine.
In Extended Constructed, the question is whether it can possibly compare to Banefire. Answer: It can't.
In Legacy/Vintage Constructed, it's irrelevant. Banefire would be better anyways, since it can't be countered.
In Casual Constructed, it's strictly better than Disintegrate, which is an old-school staple, and therefore PRETTY COOL STUFF. But it's a rare, making it less accessible than Disintegrate, Fireball, and Blaze.
As a rare, it should really be an instant, and it should probably have some other cool effect.
Bursama
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Sorry, but what were they thinking? This is probably 2. best X-burn spell there is. Best is IMO Comet Storm.
Demonic_Math_Tutor
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is nothing compared to the flavorful, powerful Green Suns Zenith. Second worst out of the Zeniths besides Blue Sun
Was this really necessary? Wasn't there anything more interesting to do with a red zenith?
TPmanW
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Surprisingly relevant. At the prerelease I usually cast it to take down a myr or something (turn two ramp destruction) but you can always scale it up to permanently dispose of a regenerating vengevine (got your intrest now right?) or burn the other player.
Nighthawk42
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Amazing in limited where any direct damage is golden and in a 40-card deck you're likely to see it twice.
More or less just another red X damage spell in constructed. Better than Blaze but lacks the flexibility of Fireball and the regeneration killing ability of Disintegrate (which might even have killed indestructible if it existed when the card was first made).
Wraique
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
At prerelease my opponent pulled 2 or these in his opening hand. He took out my Salvage Scout then my Goblin Wardriver. He shuffles and I cut his deck. He topdecks Red Sun again and on his turn 5 he takes out my Molten-Tail Masticore.
Playing R/W aggro with pretty much no board on turn 5 feels abysmal >.<
Feralsymphony
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It should exile players too :P
blindthrall
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(1 vote)
@ Nighthawk42 Disintegrate kills indestructibles. The creature still takes the damage, but the destroy effect doesn't happen. Disintegrate says if the creature would take lethal damage-damage equal to its toughness-it's removed from the game entirely. Disintegrate is my favorite burn spell for that reason, but this card is still aces if you have any love of the burn.
I think that this card has a depth exceeding it simply being ''another X spell.'' I think Zendikar was a big turning point for red. Not an identity change or anything, but I get the sense that R&D has put some special care into improving the overall quality of red spells.
comet storm is easily my favorite red spell besides Koth to come out in a long time. I feel like it is the most direct competition for the zenith. Comet Storm is at it's best as a sweeper. The more targets you have, the more efficient the mana expenditure. The zenith, on the other hand, will exile problem creatures like primeval titan or wurmcoil engine. I feel like the Zenith will be much more efficient and effective than comet storm if someone is trying to build a burn deck based around Koth. His -2 is a huge mana ritual at sorcery speed which promotes tapping out on your own turn.
I feel like the true potential of this spell is in EDH or Commander along with the other four zeniths.
Magnor_Criol
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
@blindthrall - Disintegrate will NOT get rid of an indestructible creature. It says nothing about removing it from the game if it gets damage equal to its toughness.
What it DOES say is "if that creature would be sent to the graveyard this turn, exile it instead." Disintegrate won't send an indestructible creature to the graveyard, because an indestructible creature ignores the effects of lethal damage, and so it won't exile it. (If you find a way to send it to the grave later in the same turn, it'd still apply though).
Read the official Oracle rules text rather than referring to the text that appears on the 4th- or 5th-edition cards. They're several generations of rules out of date.
WhiteyMcFly
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
You know that good old Joraga Warcaller-Garruk's Packleader combo? Yeah, this is how you abuse it. Elf Ball is reincarnate as Elf Sun Zenith!
I like this card for a very different reason than anybody else- more than any other color, I care about the art of Red cards. I want the spells that have 'Fire' in their name to look like the biggest damn explosions EVER! I dont mean matche sparks or the dumb little flames like I could see in anybody's kitchen if you leave the 5-year-old unattended- I WANT A WAR ZONE!
and the ones with 'Lightning' (or synonyms) better make me want to say 'FEEL the Power of the DARK SIDE!' (top reason I used to auto 4x the Ravnica Sparkmage Apprentice)
So, this to me is a direct improvement not over Fireball, but over Shivan Meteor!- Im not just throwing a ball of burning fossil fuels or volcano puke or whatever that was at you-- Im throwing THE F'ING RED SUN OF MIRRODIN AT YOU! Its probably being Launched from the Great Furnace by Beacon of Destruction. =D
Comet Storm, while of course a nice card with a powerful effect, looked more like burning rain to me than actual comets. Lavaball Trap showed enough scale to see that while the shape and detail were about right, the size was no where near big enough. Maybe Im just the most insane guy to ever pick up Magic cards, but throwing a Sun at someone's face seems like the best thing you can possibly do in any game. =D
RED SPIRIT BOMB FTW!!!
viashavin
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It would have been a ton better as an instant!
kalinack
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Does this spell get shuffled into the library if it is countered?
@PhyrexianAdvocate, you forgot to put Comet Storm on your list, which is still in standard.
Vinifera7
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I think it's quite a bit better than it first appears. Unlike most of the other Zeniths, this one scales down nicely while still maintaining value. It's not just another Demonfire either — you can re-use it!
mrhardy12
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Myr Infinite Mana combo, as others before have stated. 2 Galvanizers to untap the others, and at least 2 mana's worth on Myr on the field and you have infinite mana, however long it takes to tap them all.... Anyway, EACH Zenith has its uses with this (Well, Black and Green are a bit more difficult, but...):
White Sun's Zenith: Instant-speed, infinite 2/2 Cat Tokens.
Blue Sun's Zenith: Instant-speed, infinite draw on opponent to auto-kill, or "draw 20 cards from own deck. Shuffle this back into your deck" at instant-speed, to have them all at the start of your turn.
Black Sun's Zenith: Kill anything and everything on the field. Bit worse with the Myr infinite mana, since all of your Myr die. More of a "you can win with your creatures next turn? No. You can't" use.
Red Sun's Zenith: Um, Demonfire that can be countered, but can reshuffle itself, with infinite damage to enemy while still playing in Standard? Yes, please.
Green Sun's Zenith: Bit harder, since it only snatches GREEN creatures. Still possible, though.
Interestingly enough, the two Phyrexian Zenith cards aren't a good idea with the Myr Infinite Mana combo usually, since they either kill all creatures on the field, including your own, or summon a Green creature. The Mirran ones, however, all rule. Two are instant-speed (meaning INFINITE 2/2 Cats that can attack the next turn! :D), and can royally screw over an enemy, or infinite damage at Sorcery speed to auto-kill an enemy player. The Mirran Zenith cards are brilliantly epic with the Myr infinite mana, while the Phyrexian ones aren't.... That is the definition of "interesting" in Magic.
This card, with Infinite mana. Kill. That is all. Sure, Fireball wipes their field of creatures. This card kills them, which does the same thing.
WateryMind
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(4 votes)
I'm sure there's a CSI: Miami joke in here somewhere....
DacenOctavio
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
I love variations of Fireball and Blaze. Personally Disintegrate is the best. Demonfire and Banefire are tied for most tenacious. This is good because it stops you from being milled, and it makes Bloodghast stay dead. We could all use that.
I used this card to nail an opponent stuck at 11 life in EDH after he dumped his Raksha Golden Cub and an army of Cat Soldiers onto the battlefield in a last-ditch effort to aggro my Numot deck out. It didn't go well for him during my main phase.
Narim
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This is going to be much more powerfull with all the Innistrad graveyard reccursion. Really nice card.
Robface
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Why is this rated so much lower than Disintegrate? A reusable one sounds great to me.
Why is this rated so low? First of all, it shuts down any graveyard based abilities, such as Mimic Vat, you shuffle it back into your library, therefor making it useful both late game and early game. Awesome.
deth2munkies
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I've been playing this one as an instant for almost a year now.
Whoops.
Scormio
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is definitely relevant in standard again. Very hand turn to cast against their strangleroot geist, gravecrawler, or any other card that likes to come back.
Hanksingle
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card poops all over zombies.
SirZapdos
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Great card. The shuffle back in is a nice bonus, but the key is the exile effect. This card hoses undying cards, as well as other pests like Doomed Traveler, Gravecrawler and Loyal Cathar. I suppose it also hoses Morbid.
Also, on MTGO, if you target your own creature with X=0 (to remove an Ice Cage), and then the creature dies in combat, the creature is still exiled. Interesting. I guess being dealt 0 damage is still being dealt damage.
The only thing I don't like about this card is its lack of flavor text.
LordOfTheFlies87
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Underrated. Quality.
Cygore
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The fact that it only hits one creature is kinda lame, but the low R cost makes it easy to use to get rid of creatures such as Geralf's Messenger, which I know from experience is hard to deal with if you're playing a burn deck.
EyeballFrog
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Odd. This was the only one not to get flavor text.
00zau
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
I think it would be cool if, instead of "if a creature dealt damage this way dies, exile it" if some red spells had "if this assigns damage equal or greater than a creatures toughness, exile it" or similar. That way, spells like this would be able to remove indestructible creatures (by exiling them, bypassing lethal damage)
Dream_Twist
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Am I wrong, but maybe this could have been the first spell of this variety to be an Instant?
Devil's play (its successor) is not as good. I guess that's asking for a lot though. I still think it's a really solid card for any Red deck.
Coolclaytony
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Took me forever to realize that those goblins are not cheering, but panicking... actually now I'm not sure.
Jack-o-Crow
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Each of the Zenith's represent an old mirrodin artifact land in the artwork.
You see the red sun rising above a Great Furnace here.
BongRipper420
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Strictly less creative then every other Zenith. This is why I dislike red.
Smoke_Stack
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Great card. Drawing it early or late is fine since you can just ping something and shuffle it back into your library. I run it alongside Thunderous Wrath and the ubiquitous Lightning Bolt.
TheDragonPlainswalkr
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
coolest burn spell ever!
tcollins
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Those goblins are just havin' so much fun..
seriously good burn though... it has many names in... Bloodghast-B-Gone, Vengevine Victimizer....
EdgarPoeAllen
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
A Zenith is when a sun is at its highest point in the sky, directly above, not rising or setting.
blurrymadness
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I'd rather use disintegrate with one of these in my deck in case the game runs super long. Why? Grim Lavamancer needs food and it's primary use is to get rid of Undying, Persist, or similar problem creatures main deck.
CogMonocle
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
People need to understand that shuffling it back into your library is almost completely irrelevant, save for Blue Sun's Zenith. It doesn't net you any kind of advantage except for making it slightly more likely that you draw it instead of other cards, which might be useful for the phyrexian zeniths, but for the white and red zeniths, it's not so powerful that you're saying "I NEED TO ALWAYS HAVE 4 OF THIS CARD I CAN DRAW AT ALL TIMES".
Blue Sun's Zenith, however, is a key card for the decks that want it, and the decks that want it would love to just chain one after another. So there, the shuffling is relevant, given how many cards they'll go through, and that they'd love to repeatedly cast it.
So save for blue sun's zenith, the shuffle clause is only relevant in terms of making it more likely that you draw more of them, and adding one card to your library per resolution of these cards vs. mill (I mean, if you're really lucky, that might buy you like, 1 turn). People need to stop counting cards in your library as a resources you have at your disposal - that's like treating Arc-Slogger's cost as discard 10 cards.
Comments (55)
In the meantime, Green gets an overpowered tutor that's viable in almost all formats...
Red gets shafted on damn near every cycle nowadays, with probably only Pyromancer's Ascension being a recent exception.
"make it a Blaze only a little better."
"But we do that in like every blo--"
"DO IT NOW"
blaze: x damage. no other abilites....
this card: blaze + reusable + EXILE BURNT CREATURE IF IT DIES...... how you can even begin to simply compare it to a horible blaze is beyond me. Blaze is the worst of all the red X burn spells.
fireball split damage
disintegrate exile burnt creature if it dies.
you can even cast this new card for only 1-2 damage so it doesn't sit in your hand like the old mirrodin cycle sun cards. and with 4 of them you are almost guaranteed not to mill out since you can cast them for 1 even and put it back in your library.
I also disagree with the "oh, it's just a blaze" mindset. White Sun's Zenith is what white gets all the time, Blue Sun's Zenith is what blue gets all the time. So really only 2 of the zeniths are neat abilities that aren't done extensively.
I for one love this card.
In Standard Constructed until October 2011, the question is whether it's better than the much-higher-total-damage-yielding (and also instant-speed) Comet Storm. Red Sun's Zenith's best selling point is that it grants Mono-Red the ability to permanently dispose of a Vengevine.
In Extended Constructed, the question is whether it can possibly compare to Banefire. Answer: It can't.
In Legacy/Vintage Constructed, it's irrelevant. Banefire would be better anyways, since it can't be countered.
In Casual Constructed, it's strictly better than Disintegrate, which is an old-school staple, and therefore PRETTY COOL STUFF. But it's a rare, making it less accessible than Disintegrate, Fireball, and Blaze.
As a rare, it should really be an instant, and it should probably have some other cool effect.
This is probably 2. best X-burn spell there is.
Best is IMO Comet Storm.
Kaervek's Torch
Ghitu Fire
Fireball
Disintegrate
Demonfire
Blaze
Banefire
Was this really necessary? Wasn't there anything more interesting to do with a red zenith?
More or less just another red X damage spell in constructed. Better than Blaze but lacks the flexibility of Fireball and the regeneration killing ability of Disintegrate (which might even have killed indestructible if it existed when the card was first made).
Playing R/W aggro with pretty much no board on turn 5 feels abysmal >.<
Kaervek's Torch
Ghitu Fire
Fireball
Disintegrate
Demonfire
Blaze
Banefire
Was this really necessary? Wasn't there anything more interesting to do with a red zenith?"
-PrimeSonic
Quick! Name all of the spells you listed that are legal in standard!
Fireball
Yes, it was necessary.
this is a combination of gameplay-level functionality along the lines of burst lightning,staggershock or chandra ablaze with flavorful cards toting splashy and fun effects like comet storm, obsidian fireheart, surreal memoir, koth of the hammer and inferno titan.
comet storm is easily my favorite red spell besides Koth to come out in a long time. I feel like it is the most direct competition for the zenith. Comet Storm is at it's best as a sweeper. The more targets you have, the more efficient the mana expenditure. The zenith, on the other hand, will exile problem creatures like primeval titan or wurmcoil engine. I feel like the Zenith will be much more efficient and effective than comet storm if someone is trying to build a burn deck based around Koth. His -2 is a huge mana ritual at sorcery speed which promotes tapping out on your own turn.
I feel like the true potential of this spell is in EDH or Commander along with the other four zeniths.
What it DOES say is "if that creature would be sent to the graveyard this turn, exile it instead." Disintegrate won't send an indestructible creature to the graveyard, because an indestructible creature ignores the effects of lethal damage, and so it won't exile it. (If you find a way to send it to the grave later in the same turn, it'd still apply though).
Read the official Oracle rules text rather than referring to the text that appears on the 4th- or 5th-edition cards. They're several generations of rules out of date.
Praetor's Counsel to keep your hand and Goblin Bushwhacker so that you can cast your archdruids and tap on the same turn you draw them.
I like this card for a very different reason than anybody else- more than any other color, I care about the art of Red cards. I want the spells that have 'Fire' in their name to look like the biggest damn explosions EVER! I dont mean matche sparks or the dumb little flames like I could see in anybody's kitchen if you leave the 5-year-old unattended- I WANT A WAR ZONE!
and the ones with 'Lightning' (or synonyms) better make me want to say 'FEEL the Power of the DARK SIDE!' (top reason I used to auto 4x the Ravnica Sparkmage Apprentice)
So, this to me is a direct improvement not over Fireball, but over Shivan Meteor!- Im not just throwing a ball of burning fossil fuels or volcano puke or whatever that was at you-- Im throwing THE F'ING RED SUN OF MIRRODIN AT YOU! Its probably being Launched from the Great Furnace by Beacon of Destruction. =D
Comet Storm, while of course a nice card with a powerful effect, looked more like burning rain to me than actual comets. Lavaball Trap showed enough scale to see that while the shape and detail were about right, the size was no where near big enough. Maybe Im just the most insane guy to ever pick up Magic cards, but throwing a Sun at someone's face seems like the best thing you can possibly do in any game. =D
RED SPIRIT BOMB FTW!!!
White Sun's Zenith: Instant-speed, infinite 2/2 Cat Tokens.
Blue Sun's Zenith: Instant-speed, infinite draw on opponent to auto-kill, or "draw 20 cards from own deck. Shuffle this back into your deck" at instant-speed, to have them all at the start of your turn.
Black Sun's Zenith: Kill anything and everything on the field. Bit worse with the Myr infinite mana, since all of your Myr die. More of a "you can win with your creatures next turn? No. You can't" use.
Red Sun's Zenith: Um, Demonfire that can be countered, but can reshuffle itself, with infinite damage to enemy while still playing in Standard? Yes, please.
Green Sun's Zenith: Bit harder, since it only snatches GREEN creatures. Still possible, though.
Interestingly enough, the two Phyrexian Zenith cards aren't a good idea with the Myr Infinite Mana combo usually, since they either kill all creatures on the field, including your own, or summon a Green creature. The Mirran ones, however, all rule. Two are instant-speed (meaning INFINITE 2/2 Cats that can attack the next turn! :D), and can royally screw over an enemy, or infinite damage at Sorcery speed to auto-kill an enemy player. The Mirran Zenith cards are brilliantly epic with the Myr infinite mana, while the Phyrexian ones aren't.... That is the definition of "interesting" in Magic.
This card, with Infinite mana. Kill. That is all. Sure, Fireball wipes their field of creatures. This card kills them, which does the same thing.
I used this card to nail an opponent stuck at 11 life in EDH after he dumped his Raksha Golden Cub and an army of Cat Soldiers onto the battlefield in a last-ditch effort to aggro my Numot deck out. It didn't go well for him during my main phase.
Whoops.
Also, on MTGO, if you target your own creature with X=0 (to remove an Ice Cage), and then the creature dies in combat, the creature is still exiled. Interesting. I guess being dealt 0 damage is still being dealt damage.
The only thing I don't like about this card is its lack of flavor text.
Devil's play (its successor) is not as good. I guess that's asking for a lot though. I still think it's a really solid card for any Red deck.
You see the red sun rising above a Great Furnace here.
seriously good burn though... it has many names in... Bloodghast-B-Gone, Vengevine Victimizer....
Blue Sun's Zenith, however, is a key card for the decks that want it, and the decks that want it would love to just chain one after another. So there, the shuffling is relevant, given how many cards they'll go through, and that they'd love to repeatedly cast it.
So save for blue sun's zenith, the shuffle clause is only relevant in terms of making it more likely that you draw more of them, and adding one card to your library per resolution of these cards vs. mill (I mean, if you're really lucky, that might buy you like, 1 turn). People need to stop counting cards in your library as a resources you have at your disposal - that's like treating Arc-Slogger's cost as discard 10 cards.
The shuffle into library effect is NOT flashback.