Seems like sideboard material to me, no guarantee that your opponent will have enough instants/Soceries or quality one in order to justify the cardslot. Against green for example, mostly useless. Blue though, hello card draw and counterspelling their counterspell! This on a blue control player with no bounce = win, as it negates their whole card advantage strategy.
Bazzoka
★★☆☆☆ (2.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Here you go Pact decks, have fun.
or alternatively...
Here you go Group Hug EDH decks, have fun.
ThisisSakon
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
For a real classy play, you can counter whatever they tried to play with Counterlash and have the spell they played, too!
Like a lot of rares in this block, I can only see this card viable in EDH.
The.Laughing.Man
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
You guys realise this card is a 'may' card right? They don't have to cast it.
Group hug decks it works fine cause who wouldnt want that kicked right of replication or who wouldnt want to Increasing Savagery one of their own monsters.
Pact decks are this cards downfall, they dont have to cast the pact so they dont have to pay the mana in their upkeep.
majinara
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(4 votes)
Commander: At first I thought the copying effect would be mandatory. Then it would be fun with those pact spells, such as death pact. Or it would be fun in a chaos deck. But since opponents can choose whether to copy or not, I guess you just play it on an opponent and hope that the player will play instants and sorceries that are useful to you, and more useful to you than to other opponents. 2/5
RAV0004
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Play on that dirty Riku of Two Reflections player. You know who I'm talking about.
Makes fun in a Eye of the Storm Deck. Like, serious fun.
dingophone
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Hey there Hive Mind!
drpvfx
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(10 votes)
Curse of Echoes: Target Player can no longer counter spells.
This is MAJOR sideboard power. Sneak it out on a control player and watch them die a little inside.
001010011100101110
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(3 votes)
People, this is a cool card, but it's no Hive Mind. The main reason Hive Mind is played is so that you can kill them with Pacts while still able to copy their counterspells for your Pacts to resolve. That is clearly not possible with this card's "may" ability. If you like how it stops counterspells, you might as well play a 5cmc fatty. This is still good though, I mean fetching this and the white curse with Curse of Misfortune is pretty big game.
BluthBanana
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(7 votes)
What a trampy curse, putting out my spells to my friends. Goodness gracious.
Chamale
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Krypnyt: Unfortunately, this cannot replace Hive Mind in Legacy. Hive Mind decks work by casting a Pact such as Pact of the Titan, which the opponent must copy, causing them to lose next turn. This one is optional, so you can't force your opponent to copy the spell.
I'm interested to see how well it works against blue decks. If they cast a Dissipate or some other counterspell, you can create a copy to counter their counterspell.
RJDroid
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Should be fun in red-blue EDH decks that like to screw with the rules of the game.
Kryptnyt
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Hello, cheaper Hive Mind. Wasn't Hive mind already seeing serious legacy play? Rofl. EDIT: @0101010101 Yeah, I didn't see the may and I got excited. You can't win off a pact with this one.
Splizer
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(5 votes)
This can be intense multiplayer psychology is you team up against said playing by verbally echoing each spell you copy. Imagine it:
CURSED PLAYER: I pay 4 For Bar The Door- YOU: BAR THE DOOORRRR..... BOB: Bar The Dooorrrr.... NEVILLE: bar the doooorrrr....
It'll drive him insane :D
Myrderous
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
@majinara Commander is't normally the format in which you aim to get legacy combos. This card seems like a good amount of card advantage against any commander deck not completely creature orientated not to metion alot of fun
FHooglander
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So how would this card work with any of the Commander "Join Forces" spells?
The card rulings say: "You can't choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too. For example, if the enchanted player sacrifices a 3/3 creature to cast Fling, each copy of Fling will also deal 3 damage."
and
"If the original spell has an X whose value was determined as it was cast, each copy has the same value of X."
However... Join Forces spells say for example (picking Minds Aglow here): "Join forces — Starting with you, each player may pay any amount of mana. Each player draws X cards, where X is the total amount of mana paid this way."
Since X won't be determined upon resolution in this case I would expect that neither of the above rulings apply and that say in a 4 player Commander game, each player decides to copy the Minds Aglow cast by Player 1 who's enchanted by Curse of Echoes, then when Player #4's copy resolves (last player to copy resolves first) everyone gets to put in X starting w/ Player 4, then 1, 2 ,3. Everyone draws from that resolution.
Then player 3 resolves, everyone can again put in X starting w/ Player 3, then 4, then 1, 2.
etc.....
Is my understanding correct?
blindthrall
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(4 votes)
Sideboard, as such it doesn't get higher than 3/5 from me.
Arcel
★★★★☆ (4.3/5.0)(3 votes)
This card could be a lot of fun, maybe not in regular play, but in the right deck, it could make for a crazy game.
Say you are playing a hug deck, cast this on yourself then cast random spells to help others. This card has so much silly potential if you consider casting it on self.
CaptainNinJoe
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Guest819183365:
For Join Forces, mana is paid and X is determined as the spell resolves. Therefore, each copy will have its own X. If Join Forces had X directly in its mana cost and somehow allowed players to contribute to X as it is cast, then each copy would have that same X.
I really like the potential of this card, but, as was previously mentioned, it differs from Hive Mind; the "may" ability eliminates any "let-me-play-a-bad-spell-so-you-copy-it-and-lose" shenanigans.
Definitely good sideboard material against most decks with blue as the primary color, or as a singleton in a Curse of Misfortunes deck. But for a card that I can build a casual deck around, I'll stick to Hive Mind, thanks.
FatLenny
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I really want my opponent to cast Reverberate with this curse on him, just so I can Reverberate the Reverberate, then use the Reverberated Reverberate to Reverberate the original Reverberate so that I can Reverberate the first spell. I like my shenanigans to be flavorful.
"Pact decks are this cards downfall, they dont have to cast the pact so they dont have to pay the mana in their upkeep." They still have to pay. The delayed trigger is set up when the pact resolves.
Paxapunch
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I played against someone who dropped this on me. I am playing an Epic Experiment deck... It sucked. On a related note, can anyone explain to me what happens when I have that curse on me and I cast Temporal Mastery?
ZHAce_
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
ah, I remember playing this on my self, then using switcheroo after.
things got a bit confusing.
DarthParallax
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Overall, this is a 'better' Hive Mind in that I like that it closes the dumb "Pact" Loophole while keeping most of the rest of the tricks you can do! :D I'm a huge, huge fan of Counterspells. In order for anyone to think Counterspells are fun at all and not get them condemned by Development, you need cards like this, NOT cards like Mental Misstep, so that people do have viable ways to beat Counterspell Guy. Guys like me. :3 So I love that feature of this card too. And I especially love that this card is Blue instead of Red, because it totally could have been Red, but nobody should actually get to Counter Spells without some Blue Mana.
Also, blindthrall is dumb as rocks. "Sideboard = Bad" is a stupid way to think. You basically just said that every Intelligence Agency should only be rated 3/5, when everyone knows James Bond gets a solid 6/5, every time. James Bond is the penultimate Sideboard Guy. I'd never send James Bond to go buy groceries. First, anyone can do it, second, he charges too much when anyone can do it. When someone is setting a Trap for me, and I need to have a plan as brilliant as "Spring the Trap", I go get James Bond. He's really good at that. Rate cards based on what you are supposed to use them for, not on whether they are "Bruce Almighty, in cardboard form." Fine-Very Good Sideboard Cards win games, and are worth 3.5 stars as a LOW, more than 5 on a GOOD day.
ummm....Curse of Echoes gets, I think, 4.0 or 3.8 stars from me. It would have had 5 easily if the Curse Deck was better. I still need to build that thing by the way :D
BigPimpin
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Put it on yourself in a multiplayer game, using a instant/sorcery heavy deck, for political shenanigans.
I get that it's a five-mana enchantment that would be typically be hard to slip past control, but oh my God, does it ever feel like this thing should be rated higher! I love it!
psychichobo
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Personally I despise sideboards. Basically tailoring your deck just feels cheap to me. I don't care if a card is awesome at destroying a play style, sometimes it works too well. The best matches are the ones that are close and brutal, not ones where someone wins by playing one card that's only in their deck against one particular deck. No-one likes the jerk who plays Boil or Brushfire, regardless of this idea that blue players always have a counterspell available at every given moment.
Anyways, this card isn't sideboardable, it's maindeckable. It's rare to be up against someone who doesn't play instants or sorceries, and it pretty much ruins their day unless they get rid of it - and even then you may get to naturalize something of theirs at the least.
igniteice
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
5/5 This card is epic. Harmonize? Sure, I'll draw three cards too. Counterspell? Don't mind if I do.
tokrazy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
My play group has nicknamed this card “Curse of Oprah” because we enchant the most instant and sorcery based deck with it and it ends up being hilarious. We played a game that there were two of these on one person. It was the greatest thing ever, he played a blasphemous act and I flashed in a Stuffy Doll in response. I choose the guy who was about to go infinite. It was amazing.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Decent sideboard card against control. This effectively shuts down all their counter spell, and lets you copy there draw cards. Very powerful.
Against creature aggro, not so good.
daniel92380
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
how would this work in a multiplayer game if my opponent enchants me with it and i play mark of mutany and gain control of one of his creatures can i take his creature then can he take it back then another opponent take it from him????
beer2328
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Maybe I'm not understanding something here but I thought you couldn't counter their counter with this enchantment because the rules state "When the triggered ability resolves, it creates a copy of that spell for each other player." They original counter has already resolved so how can you counter it?
Also I want to know how this card effects Corrupt. Do the copying players have to have swamps or is it taken off the original cast?
Keldane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@ beer2328
The 'triggered ability' referred to by the ruling is the ability of this card, not the original spell. Copies created by Curse of Echoes resolve before the original spell, so it is entirely possible to use a counterspell copied by Curse of Echoes to counter the original counterspell.
Kamille_Bidan
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
In a game with multiple players, or special rules I would rate this a 3/5 In a 1v1 this easily gets a 5/5
Comments (40)
or alternatively...
Here you go Group Hug EDH decks, have fun.
4.5/5
Group hug decks it works fine cause who wouldnt want that kicked right of replication or who wouldnt want to Increasing Savagery one of their own monsters.
Pact decks are this cards downfall, they dont have to cast the pact so they dont have to pay the mana in their upkeep.
2/5
Makes fun in a Eye of the Storm Deck. Like, serious fun.
Target Player can no longer counter spells.
This is MAJOR sideboard power.
Sneak it out on a control player and watch them die a little inside.
I'm interested to see how well it works against blue decks. If they cast a Dissipate or some other counterspell, you can create a copy to counter their counterspell.
EDIT: @0101010101
Yeah, I didn't see the may and I got excited. You can't win off a pact with this one.
CURSED PLAYER: I pay 4 For Bar The Door-
YOU: BAR THE DOOORRRR.....
BOB: Bar The Dooorrrr....
NEVILLE: bar the doooorrrr....
It'll drive him insane :D
The card rulings say:
"You can't choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too. For example, if the enchanted player sacrifices a 3/3 creature to cast Fling, each copy of Fling will also deal 3 damage."
and
"If the original spell has an X whose value was determined as it was cast, each copy has the same value of X."
However... Join Forces spells say for example (picking Minds Aglow here):
"Join forces — Starting with you, each player may pay any amount of mana. Each player draws X cards, where X is the total amount of mana paid this way."
Since X won't be determined upon resolution in this case I would expect that neither of the above rulings apply and that say in a 4 player Commander game, each player decides to copy the Minds Aglow cast by Player 1 who's enchanted by Curse of Echoes, then when Player #4's copy resolves (last player to copy resolves first) everyone gets to put in X starting w/ Player 4, then 1, 2 ,3. Everyone draws from that resolution.
Then player 3 resolves, everyone can again put in X starting w/ Player 3, then 4, then 1, 2.
etc.....
Is my understanding correct?
Say you are playing a hug deck, cast this on yourself then cast random spells to help others.
This card has so much silly potential if you consider casting it on self.
For Join Forces, mana is paid and X is determined as the spell resolves. Therefore, each copy will have its own X. If Join Forces had X directly in its mana cost and somehow allowed players to contribute to X as it is cast, then each copy would have that same X.
I really like the potential of this card, but, as was previously mentioned, it differs from Hive Mind; the "may" ability eliminates any "let-me-play-a-bad-spell-so-you-copy-it-and-lose" shenanigans.
Definitely good sideboard material against most decks with blue as the primary color, or as a singleton in a Curse of Misfortunes deck. But for a card that I can build a casual deck around, I'll stick to Hive Mind, thanks.
---Oracle Eratta
They still have to pay. The delayed trigger is set up when the pact resolves.
things got a bit confusing.
Also, blindthrall is dumb as rocks. "Sideboard = Bad" is a stupid way to think. You basically just said that every Intelligence Agency should only be rated 3/5, when everyone knows James Bond gets a solid 6/5, every time. James Bond is the penultimate Sideboard Guy. I'd never send James Bond to go buy groceries. First, anyone can do it, second, he charges too much when anyone can do it. When someone is setting a Trap for me, and I need to have a plan as brilliant as "Spring the Trap", I go get James Bond. He's really good at that. Rate cards based on what you are supposed to use them for, not on whether they are "Bruce Almighty, in cardboard form." Fine-Very Good Sideboard Cards win games, and are worth 3.5 stars as a LOW, more than 5 on a GOOD day.
ummm....Curse of Echoes gets, I think, 4.0 or 3.8 stars from me. It would have had 5 easily if the Curse Deck was better. I still need to build that thing by the way :D
I get that it's a five-mana enchantment that would be typically be hard to slip past control, but oh my God, does it ever feel like this thing should be rated higher! I love it!
Anyways, this card isn't sideboardable, it's maindeckable. It's rare to be up against someone who doesn't play instants or sorceries, and it pretty much ruins their day unless they get rid of it - and even then you may get to naturalize something of theirs at the least.
Against creature aggro, not so good.
Also I want to know how this card effects Corrupt. Do the copying players have to have swamps or is it taken off the original cast?
The 'triggered ability' referred to by the ruling is the ability of this card, not the original spell. Copies created by Curse of Echoes resolve before the original spell, so it is entirely possible to use a counterspell copied by Curse of Echoes to counter the original counterspell.
In a 1v1 this easily gets a 5/5
this coupled with curse of exhaustion is pretty much a giant f*ck you
of course that means the match is at least turn 4. (unless you use banned stuff like black lotus) And by then you should have won
Disregard that, anyone who actually thinks by turn 5 you should have won is an idiot and needs to stop playing magic.