Pointed Discussion

Storm decks are going to have fun with this.

Does anyone NOT expect this to be restricted in Vintage?

Apparently, she just takes this glass of wine... err, blood wherever she goes.

Fixed YawgWin! I don't know how well it'll work in standard, but modern loves it!

@Lyoncet: Well, you don't need to sacrifice a creature when you cast the ritual with flashback.

Hello, YawgWin, my old friend
I've come to cast with you again
For some zombies slowly creeping
Left my opponents greatly weeping...

Who else, when they look at this card, think of the Elric brothers and when they torched their family home?

@Gabriel442:

"Well, you don't need to sacrifice a creature when you cast the ritual with flashback."

Wizards clarified this in an "Ask Wizards" article from October, 2008, concerning Dralnu, Lich Lord and Bone Splinters. The article states that "You have to pay this additional cost (sacrificing a creature) any time you play Bone Splinters—it doesn't matter where you're playing it from or whether you paid its mana cost." So you still have to sacrifice with Infernal Plunge, even if you give it flashback and play it from your graveyard.

Anyways, back to my original post:

God I wish Red had mana rituals in Standard (that didn't sacrifice a creature).
God I wish Red had mana rituals in Standard (that didn't sacrifice a creature).
God I wish Red had mana rituals in Standard (that didn't sacrifice a creature).
God I wish Red had mana rituals in Standard (that didn't sacrifice a creature).
God I wish Red had mana rituals in Standard (that didn't sacrifice a creature).


Maybe that would utterly break this card, since double-casting mana acceleration was what made Yawgmoth's Will the biggest mistake Wizards ever made (of their own admission). But right now it's hard to get value out of this. It's a deadweight until you have enough spells in your graveyard to justify the hefty upfront cost and enough mana to cast all those spells. You're talking 7+ mana at this point. And not many decks are even configured to get enough use out of it.

That's not to say it's a bad card. It fits as a flexible curve-topper over your 6 cmc beaters. I'm really tempted to run 1-2 in counterburn or Big Red, then use it on turn 7-8 to help sweep the board for an Inferno Titan (or maybe even Charmbreaker Devils). Or if I'm looking at a clear board, just use it along with the beater as a one-two punch to win the game.

Plus, the Flashback helps, since if you have a lot of good spells to recur but not enough mana for a critical effect, you can cast that other half next turn, and if you drop a land it will essentially negate the 1 higher flashback cost.

Final synergy thought: drop it in R/G, Shock a critter, then recur all your Caravan Vigils. Spend 2-4 green mana to put 2-4 mana of whatever color you want into play, so you still have just as much mana available for your burn spells, but you've just thinned your deck considerably and ramped your mana through the ceiling, and next turn (if there is one) the Past in Flames flashback will be just that much bigger.


Also, it strikes me as odd that writing "this card is good, but difficult to use" seems to invariably result in getting rated .5 stars, even if it's part of a constructive comment that clarifies rulings and talks about how the card can be run well.

How many cards will you be able to afford to flashback, after spending 4 or 6 on this?

Modern ban just destroyed this card . .
I don't know how modern would use this . .
Maybe suspends that cost 0 can make use of this . . but Snapcaster Mage just does it better.

Yawgmoth's WIll. In red. With flashback. Boy howdy.

Yet another card that further invalidates black discard as an alternative to blue for fighting degenerate combo decks was NOT what Magic needed. I believe WotC should be working harder to chip away at blue's stranglehold on eternal formats, not cement it. Necessitating graveyard hate similtaneously to diminishing discard's value just further raises non-blue's inefficiencies.

A couple copies of this have gone straight into my Pyromancer Ascension ritual heavy modern deck, works brilliantly with all of the rituals especially manamorphose , free drawing (+extra mana when pyromancer is active) is nice, but when you can cast it again from the graveyard it's even more ridiculous.

I find myself concerned by the apparently unintuitive of having an expensive spell that scales directly with how much mana put into it after the base cost.

That was kind of wordy.
It's like having fireball cost

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the true power of the card. I suppose it combos with mana-producing sorceries, but red doesn't have too many efficient rituals.

It feels like a card that you have to build your whole deck around, and such a card seems like it belongs better at rare than mythic.

This is yawgmoth's will plus one mana.

Let that sink into your head.

This is yawgmoth's will plus one mana.

Seems good and will probably see some play in eternal formats as a Burning Wish target. If it could re-use Lion's Eye Diamond as well, it would be sick and completely overpowered (so long Ill-Gotten Gains).

I'm curious to see whether someone finds a way to abuse its own flashback ability in some kind of Cephalid-like mill thing or along with some Entomb semi-chaining.

In standard, I think I'd pair this with Priest of Urubrask along with Infernal Plunge. It should be able to fuel burn and combos that aren't heavy on non-red mana.

Pick up your Catalyst Stones now if you think this will see play. Hell, it would be really good with it.
Also, this is not exactly YawgWin, mostly because you can cast it from your graveyard after a Gifts Ungiven.

Brain Freeze, baby. Looks like your opponent got Freezer Burn.

Ancestral Recall has Ancestral Vision.
Time Walk has Time Warp.
Timetwister has Wheel of Fortune.
Black Lotus has Lotus Petal and Lion's Eye Diamond.
The Moxens have the Medalions.
Mana Drain has Scattering Stroke.
Counterspell has a whole arsonal of spells.
Necropotence has Yawgmoth's Bargain.
Living Death has Living End.
XYZ has Magus of the XYZ.

Now Yawgmoth's Will has this. In red. With flashback. In Standard. And Extended. And especially Modern. Hell yeah.

am I the only one that realized this says Mana Cost? not CONVERTED Mana Cost? Phyrexian Mana Storm here I come!

why couldn't this be the same as snapcaster, but without the creature.

but then i guess it would be $20 and i would never be able to afford a playset of these either.

@ Everyone comparing this to Yawgmoth's Will:

I highly agree this is very similar to it, but you mustn't forget that you can't play enchantments, creatures, artifacts, or lands from your graveyard. That is why this was reprinted this way: To give your opponent a fair fight.

In retrospect, however, almost everytime I play Yawgmoth's Will, I generally replay sorceries and instants' that I've played before, such as Buried Alive, Dark Ritual, Demonic Tutor, or Living Death rather than creatures and enchantments, because 1: I use a resurrection deck, and 2: I never really have enchantments in my graveyard.

Regardless, this card falls in the "general" category of playability. Unlike such cards as Gallows Warden, Runic Repetition or Angelic Overseer, this card can pretty much be played in any red deck and can still work well. It doesn't need any other cards to play with it: it can work on its own (unlike 90% of all the cards in the Kamigawa block).

I'm still giving it 5/5 because it is still regarded as "easy-to-counter" or "too costly", and only costs a few dollars.

@DacenOctavo
Brain freeze would be awesome, to mill yourself.
Your first storm early storm for 5 (ponders, one or two rituals, manamorphose, and maybe a counter on top of freezing yourself) mills a quarter of your deck.
You can even hold a ritual in your hand, to either go off next turn after untapped or this turn with floating mana and a sufficient graveyard (with this card in it).

Then, with a high enough storm after milling yourself, you can freeze your opponent.

Great thing about this is that your "draw" engine is also your kill condition, effectively allowing your to play 4x.

(Famous card from the) Past in Flames (=Red)

If only there were a way to get infinite mana in standard.

Now if only Arc-Slogger were cheaper, I'd be concocting some sort of Modern deck with that combo.

Edit: Aaaand those cards are removed from the game, not put into the graveyard. Nevermind that idea.

Rules question: Let's say I have a Zenith in my graveyard (because it got countered or discarded), and then I use this to give it flashback; does it shuffle into the library or get exiled?

The only permanents I've ever seen played via Yawgmoth's Will, really, were Lotus (Black Lotus, Lotus Petal). And maybe sometimes a Mox that got hit by an opponent's Nature's Claim, or a spent Memory Jar. That's just a few cards out of sixty in a storm deck, and you can cast Past in Flames twice.

The first Vintage deck I'm going to try will attempt to put Tinker in the graveyard (or draw it) and cast it with Past in Flames (possibly taking advantage of the fact that Past in Flames lets cards land in your graveyard from dredging-type stuff *after* it has been cast, unlike Y's Will). Boom, drop the Time Vault combo, win the game. 3x Past in Flames, 4x Burning Wish, fourth PIF in the sideboard.

I haven't been this excited to see a card announced since... uh, Innistrad's Snapcaster mage. Which along with Rune-Scarred Demon has completely transformed and revitalized Vintage. Makes you wonder if Wizards is recommitting to a vibrant Vintage environment.

This is going to be awesome.

I use this in my full out burn deck. Even being aginst a mill isnt bad because of this. First use all mana ramps, and let them resolve. Past in flames, and use them all again, then enjoy using whatever you feel like. Infact if you have the mana, i recomend reverbating mana ramps if possible. And i have infact just realized that if you do this with increasing vengeance in your graveyard, you get the double copy spell, for only two red mana. If you do a seething song from this, its a mana increase of 8.

Seriously, the possabilities are endless, weather you need one last spell to get a creature out of the way, more mana is always helpful, perhaps a damaging spell to activate abilities? As long as you have the mana, your graveyard is your spellbook.

A great option to give red decks reach when they run out of steam. It is very strong in an appropriate deck with just 7 mana. Any deck with lots of single CMC burn spells AND acceleration should auto-include this. But probably not more than 2 copies, since these become less effective after each casting.

Put it in a ceta colored deck for blue's milling and green's mana ramping? Just a thought. I just wish it weren't mythic.

Maybe if they gave this card the clause from the "Increasing" cycle (ie. Increasing Vengeance), it'd be better.
If this card doubled the effect for cards you flashed back BECAUSE of this card, it'd be much stronger, and the applications would outweigh the cost.
Then again, that would make this card pretty overpowered, albeit just overall more fun.

Tempted_Johnny, I'm not one hundred percent sure, but I believe it would get shuffled back in, as that's part of the resolution of the spell.

For those wondering about flashback with the Zeniths, the Zenith will be exiled due to flashback rather than being shuffled back into your library.

701.15d If an effect would cause a player to shuffle one or more specific objects into a library, and a replacement or prevention effect causes all such objects to be moved to another zone instead, that library isnt shuffled.Example: Black Suns Zenith says, in part, Shuffle Black Suns Zenith into its owners library. Black Suns Zenith is in a graveyard, has gained flashback (due to Recoup, perhaps), and is cast from that graveyard. Black Suns Zenith will be exiled, and its owners library wont be shuffled

702.32a Flashback appears on some instants and sorceries. It represents two static abilities: one that functions while the card is in a players graveyard and the other that functions while the card is on the stack. Flashback means You may cast this card from your graveyard by paying rather than paying its mana cost and If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack. Casting a spell using its flashback ability follows the rules for paying alternative costs in rules 601.2b and 601.2e



As for the applications of this card, I've put a singleton in my B/R 'total destruction' deck. Unless the deck has some form of ramp, I can't see a deck containing more than that simply because of the high mana requirements - the highest number of spells I've been able to cast after resolving this is three, but one or two is much more common (most instants / sorceries in that deck have CMC 1 or 2). Found that it's a great late-game card that can definitely swing games in the right deck.

Also, flashbacking Demonic Tutor is awesome.

Ouch, an outstandingly painful effect, so long as you have mana to capitalize. Imagine if this was an enchantment. Flashback cost is decent, only one mana more than its regular cost, so that’s cool. Making your graveyard spell’s flashback cost the same as their casting cost is excellent fairness.
A good idea/effect but you need to be clever about capitalizing from the effect and/or having excess mana to really drive home the point of this spell. I say the possibilities to build theme around it can outweigh drawbacks to using it.

I can see this being used in burn to finish someone with some cheap burn spells maybe. 3.5/5

I LOVE this in EDH against my friend's Oona, Queen of the Fae mill deck.

"Oh, so you traumatized me? Well for 4 to 5 mana my hand is now half my deck. Thanks man!"

Also a great way of getting one last taste out of a big expensive wrath spell in the super-late game.

Arcane Melee, heheheh.

Seething Song + Reverberate + Infernal Plunge + Chandra, the Firebrand... Anyone???

i dont want to see a edh burn deck with this play it around turn 12 or ten around five one mana burn spells that is amazing going into my edh now

Me and most of my friends thought this was pretty narrow, especially for a mythic. Wouldn't do that much.

Then one guy ran a couple in his flashback deck. Turned out every turn he played it, ALL his opponents died. ALL OF THEM.

This is brutally good. With a single Burning Vengeance on the field Galvanic Blasts hit you for five. Lightning Bolts are worse, but this guy insisted on his own decks being standard as a test of his deck-building capabilities. Only Aggro could stop it, and we never knew beforehand what decks we'd be up against...

I recently got my hands on two of these little beauties, and I couldn't be happier. I had just finished putting together a mono-black storm/broken shit deck, and I thought it'd be fun to make a U/R version, because I love recursive play styles. Anyway, I don't have the U/R storm cards yet, so it's just a self mill/burn deck that usually flashes this back to win. So, after a while of messing around with this, I can say that there are a lot of instances where I'd use this over Yawgmoth's Will. This is easier to abuse via self-mill due to flashback, and being able to keep a chain going after casting it. Of course, 1 on 1, will is a lot better, but this works surprisingly nicely in multiples where will doesn't. This card has the feel of breaking the game wide open, while not being as balls-out ridiculous as the will. I guess I can do a point by point.
Past in Flames:
Very resilient
Works in multiples
Works multiple times
Can get back most of what it needs to
Straight forward to build around
Cost is pretty heavy

Yawgmoth's Will:
It's freaking Yawgmoth's Will
It can grab anything you need
Can be used effectively in any deck
Cheaper
Slightly harder to control (spell order matters more)

That's just my 2 cents. Also, any one else want to build a Jund Super-recursion with this, Yawgmoth's Will, and the green counter part, Creeping Renaissance?

I guess Ms. Voldaren enjoys seeing a Flashback of Rolling Temblors.

This not Banned Where Everywhere because it's Not as Good as Yawgmoth's Will.

It is NOT as good as Yawgmoth's Will. Worth repeating.

So it's not as strong as one of the most common candidates for the Tenth member of the Power Nine. :P So? It's still going to give you some of the most Powerful Turns you can have in Magic. It's comparable in power-level to Time Warp- a fair, Very Powerful, broadly applicable to most MAGIC games card.

Looks like this card will take the game by

*sunglasses*

Storm.







YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

I love this. Run lots of 1 or 2 mana burn spells/removal spells (+ whatever else), and then pay something like 7 mana for 3 1-mana spells (like oust, flame slash, and steelshaper's gift). It's very powerful and very fun.

5/5 - Awesome mythic.

Finished two FNM games using this, and Goblin Electromancer. One with four burn spells, the other with Guttersnipe and divinations. Might have also had Young Pyromancer during one of those.
Its very fun, but costly without spell cost reduction.

But its still my favorite card right now.

A Modern-legal Yawgmoth's Will that you can use twice? Nope. No way in hell can that be broken, nuh-uh.

As someone who runs two in a Young Pyromancer storm deck, this is the one card that you really want to see once you hit 6 mana on your rituals.