the problem would be that this works for everyone, including your opponent
steev
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(4 votes)
I think, at this mana cost, this could have still been fair if it only gave you the bonus and not your opponents. Plus as a 5-drop, they're probably getting to use the bonus first.
But it's good for group hug commander decks!
Trygon_Predator
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(2 votes)
It's Heartless Summoning for instants and sorceries! Except it's overcosted and your opponents get it too. I'm sure it wouldn't have killed to have it at ...
lorendorky
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I just realized, this is an especially overcosted counter to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben .
I mean can you imagine getting this andMindmoil on the board at the same time!?
majinara
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(7 votes)
I think that for serious constructed decks, this is just too slow. But for casual decks it can be fun. Especially regarding buyback spells, since you can play them then over and over for cheap.
Fenix.
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
@Trygon_Predator: that kind of comparison doesn't really hold up, because creatures and instant/sorceries are very different. I'm pretty sure that somewhere, sometimes, there will be some really unfair decks with this cards so costing it like this to be on the safe side seems reasonable.
Halidir_Orveck
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Braids Conjurer Adept.... this card was created for your EDH deck, enjoy love, Wizards
pedrodyl
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
There are a lot of crappy, rare overcosted enchantments in this block...
RAV0004
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(4 votes)
Compare to Heartless Summoning. at Five CMC and gifts to your opponent, this is all downside.
SyntheticDreamer
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Bad for Standard, but potentially good in a political EDH deck.
JARYISM
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
YOU CANT COMPARE THIS TO HEARTLESS SUMMONING PPL! One is creatures, the other is Instant/Sorceries, hmm..I wonder which one contains the more broken potential? The symmetrical and cost is a downside, but the thing is YOUR deck will most likely designed to play around this whereas the opponent's probably won't. Consider decks like Past in Flames and mana ramping, this could become beastly fast...
Lord_of_Tresserhorn
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Well, now, if you ever pull it off, it can be pretty sick with Tamiyo's ultimate!!!
A3Kitsune
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Seems like this would be good in a flashback deck.
SIlverSkyz
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
For shame all of you. It's been two days since the pre-release and still no one's found a combo to break this card if half yet.
Even Razor Boomerang was broken quicker.
roguepariah
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I'm fine with the cost. It is on the conservative side, but if it were costed the same as Heartless Summoning many very-bad-horrible-not-so-good things would happen. Just the interaction with counter spells alone necessitates a higher cost. Being able to cast this turn 3 at and have enough left for a Mana Leak? No thank you. Or being able to cast something like Time Reversal as early as turn 3?
Thank you Wizards for not handing blue the car keys with this one.
Tiggurix
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I am very happy to have drawn this one. This card works really well with Retrace cards. Finally a chance to use that playset of Call the Skybreaker I've got in my binder! =D
MANABURNWASGOOD
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Meh, I liked it, then it hit me that it doesn't say "YOUR", so it works for everybody. I don't like the idea of my opponent potentially playing a damnation or wrath of god for 2 colored mana.
MaDaZi
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
If it works for all players, just maybe put it on a sideboard, and if you happen to luck out and you end up with an opponent with: a mostly creature deck, or crappy instants or sorceries, then it might be useful, but probably not.
Frostraven
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Now all we need is an artifact costing 5 cmc that reduces the manacost of enchantments by 2. *Facepalm*
...
gatorjunkie
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This is actually great with Army of the Damned and on color for Zombie decks. And it helps with the flashback cost too.
RedJaron
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
As others have said, I don't understand the cost of this card. At 5 CMC, it really ought to benefit only you. If it's global, it should be no more than 4 CMC. I'd like to see it at 3, but I think it might be too explotable that soon in the game.
And if it's not hitting until ~T5, does it hit fast enough to have much of an impact? If you're playing and you're keeping your hand full, then even with the late hit I can see it being useful. Then again, the discount makes you want to play the more expensive, powerful spells, and if those are wasting in your hand before you can get the melee out, does that mean it will be too-little too-late?
Hmmm, the more I think about this, the riskier the card seems. It almost has to be the centerpiece of an IKEA gun deck.
randomguy001
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Hmm... would this also reduce the cost required to pay for in a mana cost? Like for Blaze, if this is already on the battlefield, is it possible to pay just and deal 2 damage? Or and deal 4 damage?
Splizer
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Well, it's two steps closer to Time Stretch. Can't complain there.
coyotemoon722
★★★★☆ (4.9/5.0)(4 votes)
This card is downright broken in ISD Block, and I imagine it could see use in other formats. It makes all your utility spells cost 1CC, which in turn lets you cast multiple flashback spells in a single turn.
Example: You've controlled your way to 6+ mana, and you have two Melees out. You can Demolish a land, use Mystic Retrieval to get it back, Demolish again, flashback Retrieval, and Demolish a third time, all for the low price of 5 mana, and even have another mana in reserve for the Think Twice/Faithless Looting/Desperate Ravings in the yard.
It's honestly a Blue Mage's dream card. The cost is a bit steep, but as others have said it would have been an auto-4 of at any cheaper. You're using it in a control deck which often has more expensive spells anyway. This lets you cheapen all of those spells. It needs a bit of build-around which is fine. I'm having a blast with this thing, and to top it all off the artwork and flavor text are awesome too!
Admiral_Ferret
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Basic Question: Does the global reduction reduce for 'x' cards like Delve would for Logic Knot)
Specifics: I've just used this card after holding on to it for a while..
I haven't used it with one yet, but if I'm not mistaken, would this card also take off cost of 'x' cards?..
I was looking at Logic Knot, and it's delve (You may exile any number of cards from your graveyard as you cast this spell. It costs less to cast for each card exiled this way.)
Then it's ruling: "Using delve doesn't reduce the value of 'x'. It just reduces the amount of mana Logic Knot's controller has to pay."
So with Arcane Melee on the field, if I were to use a counter with "Counter a spell unless it's controller pays 'x'" .. If I paid 2 for 'x' would they have to pay ?
ParanoidMonkey
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I would rather focus on either sorceries or instants and use a Semblance Anvil. That way you have a similar affect that only you benefit from.
LordRandomness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Some nice synergies:
- Mystic Retrieval. Cast the original for {1}{U} and the flashback for {R}. At 6 mana, any spell that was reduced to CMC 1 from this can be cast three times (suddenly Divination doesn't look so bad...) - Any X-draw spell (Blue Sun's Zenith and many others). Draw ALL the things! - In fact, pretty much any X spell. All-damaging effects are especially nice, and Killing Wave is hilarious. - Reforge the Soul. Reducing the non-Miracle cost to {1}{R}{R} allows you to reload and unleash hell on the same turn, to say nothing of if you actually miracle it... - Manamorphose. Free mana, what's not to like? - Ember Shot (lol, jk) - Think Twice (turns into a cheaper Divination at instant speed, which is great for control) - Unburial Rites (Two for the price of one!)
One important think to keep an eye on is that it reduces both the regular AND the flashback costs for spells with flashback, which can double your discount if you can cast both at once. Hmm...Past in Flames...
Todris052
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is such an awesome name. I'm totaly going to make a D&D feat just for the name.
Totema
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Admiral: Yes, generally speaking an X cost is part of a colorless mana cost for a card. So if an effect such as this reduces colorless costs, an X cost will be whatever mana you actually pay, plus however much the cost is reduced.
The problem with cards like this is that there's really no way to cost them properly. If this cost even 1 less it would be far too easy to break, but once it has been costed fairly, it takes too long to actually get it into play, at which point it's not worth it anymore, because you're so far behind already. For the most part, the solution is to put the effect of creatures, since they're easier to remove, but also to lessen its strength. Goblin Electromancer got it right.
Ferlord
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Although it is the only format that this is playable in, I wouldn't suggest playing this in EDH.
Giving your opponents a quicker way to play bigger spells is never a good idea. Always remember that when playing this card, it's very much like Howling Mine: you can't take advantage of it as well because you spent to play it. This means your opponent now has a whole turn to play 2-cost Damnation's/Wrath of God's, 1-cost Chaos Warp's, and 3-cost Time Warp's.
However, Jaryism's point is exceptionally valid: your deck should be built to suit this, while there's shouldn't.
Still, don't play it for political purposes (unless playing a group-hug deck)
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
I pulled this in a booster pack. the kind of card that makes you want to build a deck around. The art is breathtaking, and it seems fun.
I like comparing this to gilded lotus. That has no drawback and can potentially reduce 1 instant or sorcery's cost by . Though, to do this card justice, when it gets rolling you can flashback a ton of spells for 1 mana a pop.
azure_drake222222
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
Does this have anything to do with the "Arcane" subtype on instants and sorceries?
Salient
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Ironically, the art appears to depict a Lightning Bolt that has been Swerved, but neither of those have colorless mana in their mana cost.
docjarvisd09
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
"Next turn you are so dead! There's no way you can possibly use this card against me!" "Seething song into seething song into rite of flame into dragonstorm." "...game 2?" Pretty extreme example, but seriously, if you play this card, you're hoping your opponent won't have the cards to turn this card around on you,
Comments (36)
But it's good for group hug commander decks!
In something like EDH this could just send a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind over the top even MORE.
I mean can you imagine getting this and Mindmoil on the board at the same time!?
love, Wizards
It's been two days since the pre-release and still no one's found a combo to break this card if half yet.
Even Razor Boomerang was broken quicker.
It is on the conservative side, but if it were costed the same as Heartless Summoning many very-bad-horrible-not-so-good things would happen.
Just the interaction with counter spells alone necessitates a higher cost. Being able to cast this turn 3 at
Or being able to cast something like Time Reversal as early as turn 3?
Thank you Wizards for not handing blue the car keys with this one.
*Facepalm*
...
And if it's not hitting until ~T5, does it hit fast enough to have much of an impact? If you're playing
Hmmm, the more I think about this, the riskier the card seems. It almost has to be the centerpiece of an IKEA gun deck.
Example: You've controlled your way to 6+ mana, and you have two Melees out. You can Demolish a land, use Mystic Retrieval to get it back, Demolish again, flashback Retrieval, and Demolish a third time, all for the low price of 5 mana, and even have another mana in reserve for the Think Twice/Faithless Looting/Desperate Ravings in the yard.
It's honestly a Blue Mage's dream card. The cost is a bit steep, but as others have said it would have been an auto-4 of at any cheaper. You're using it in a control deck which often has more expensive spells anyway. This lets you cheapen all of those spells. It needs a bit of build-around which is fine. I'm having a blast with this thing, and to top it all off the artwork and flavor text are awesome too!
Does the global reduction reduce for 'x' cards like Delve would for Logic Knot)
Specifics:
I've just used this card after holding on to it for a while..
I haven't used it with one yet, but if I'm not mistaken, would this card also take off
I was looking at Logic Knot, and it's delve (You may exile any number of cards from your graveyard as you cast this spell. It costs
Then it's ruling: "Using delve doesn't reduce the value of 'x'. It just reduces the amount of mana Logic Knot's controller has to pay."
So with Arcane Melee on the field, if I were to use a counter with "Counter a spell unless it's controller pays 'x'" .. If I paid 2 for 'x' would they have to pay
- Mystic Retrieval. Cast the original for {1}{U} and the flashback for {R}. At 6 mana, any spell that was reduced to CMC 1 from this can be cast three times (suddenly Divination doesn't look so bad...)
- Any X-draw spell (Blue Sun's Zenith and many others). Draw ALL the things!
- In fact, pretty much any X spell. All-damaging effects are especially nice, and Killing Wave is hilarious.
- Reforge the Soul. Reducing the non-Miracle cost to {1}{R}{R} allows you to reload and unleash hell on the same turn, to say nothing of if you actually miracle it...
- Manamorphose. Free mana, what's not to like?
- Ember Shot (lol, jk)
- Think Twice (turns into a cheaper Divination at instant speed, which is great for control)
- Unburial Rites (Two for the price of one!)
One important think to keep an eye on is that it reduces both the regular AND the flashback costs for spells with flashback, which can double your discount if you can cast both at once. Hmm...Past in Flames...
--Lunar Mystic
If this cost even 1 less it would be far too easy to break, but once it has been costed fairly, it takes too long to actually get it into play, at which point it's not worth it anymore, because you're so far behind already.
For the most part, the solution is to put the effect of creatures, since they're easier to remove, but also to lessen its strength. Goblin Electromancer got it right.
Giving your opponents a quicker way to play bigger spells is never a good idea. Always remember that when playing this card, it's very much like Howling Mine: you can't take advantage of it as well because you spent
However, Jaryism's point is exceptionally valid: your deck should be built to suit this, while there's shouldn't.
Still, don't play it for political purposes (unless playing a group-hug deck)
I like comparing this to gilded lotus. That has no drawback and can potentially reduce 1 instant or sorcery's cost by
"Seething song into seething song into rite of flame into dragonstorm."
"...game 2?"
Pretty extreme example, but seriously, if you play this card, you're hoping your opponent won't have the cards to turn this card around on you,