I find it hard to believe that this card was not designed for use with Pandemonium or Gaea's Anthem. I am also extremely amused by its synergy with Mighty Emergence.
edwinslow
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(7 votes)
Doesn't work with Mighty Emergence as it's a trigger ability. He's dead before the counters can get to him, unless something else boosts it's toughness.
kitsunewarlock
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(4 votes)
Good card that needs to be combo'd. Amazing with Incandescent Soulstoke. Pretty bad in draft though.
A bit messy to set up, and becomes a lightning rod if you can get it out, but more often than not, it's a killer. I run it with a Taunting Elf and Shield of the Oversoul.
Donovan_Fabian
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(5 votes)
Seems like a good card for creakwood or wiltleaf liege, keeping him out for a turn with a mayael's aria could give it counters too, although I have to imagine it would be chump blocked pretty fast. Probably best way is to keep in play for only a turn and play a shield of the oversoul on it.
Omenchild
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(4 votes)
better than lightning serpent by a lot
typezeroserodin
★★☆☆☆ (2.6/5.0)(8 votes)
Two Words: Graft Deck.
I have three of these in a blue-green graft deck, so its not uncommon for me to have this guy at 11/3 by the time it hits the field.
No Idea what 'graft' is?
Here: Simic Initiate or Vigean Hydropon are examples.
LiXinjian
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Graft doesn't work either: it's a triggered ability. As soon as an ability reads "whenever" or "at", then it won't work with this card. Oran-Rief, the Vastwood won't work either, in case you are wondering.
qaq456
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Gee, only cards that say ''All creatures you control get +1 +1etc'' work like Marshals Anthem and Gaea's Anthem.
Alqatrkapa
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(5 votes)
Wait... But because they made the ability Graft, wouldn't it make it passive? It happens instantly. It's like Lifelink versus the old stuff.
Alpinefroggy
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(6 votes)
A very nice three drop for an agro deck but it dies to removemal and the lack of any toughness
Tiggurix
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(6 votes)
I love the flavour text!
ThaBishop
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(5 votes)
goes well with Slagwurm Armour
SleetFox
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(3 votes)
This is too hard to use. It's cool, but you pretty much need to build a deck more or less around it to make it work. And when you do, you just get a kind of powerful creature that's more or less a glass cannon. I'm not calling it useless, but the reward is not good enough for the trouble.
Dragon_Whelp
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(12 votes)
Leyline of Vitality.
ddde
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Graft and mighty emergence are triggered or activated abilities. They are too slow to stop this from heading for the graveyard as a state-based effect.
Once you have this out in play, Mirrorweave could be used to destroy your opponent's creatures while boosting any of your own that have a power less than eight (and are protected with whatever +X toughness effect you use to allow Force of Savagery to exist).
Unique. Never have I seen a card that has 0 toughness and no counters come with it onto the battlefield. Obviously you need Lumithread Field, Gaea's Anthem, Glorious Anthem etc. Then go for the kill. Nice, very nice.
3.5/5
land_comment
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.9/5.0)(4 votes)
Can you equip stuff to him and he won't die?
jsttu
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Use him in a simic deck. Graft a couple of counters on him when he enters play and then swing. Not the most competitive deck archetype, but lots of fun in casual.
SparklesTheVicious
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Can be flashed in with Incandescent Soulstoke for a quick 9 damage, or hardcasted easily as long as you have Soulstoke.
I love cards like this, and hate cards like this. They're neat in that they're weird to play with and super-powerful if you build around them. They're lame in that so many people don't know how the rules work that they waste their time playing it incorrectly and feel dumb when someone shows them what actually happens. The below are examples of that.
@Grimjaw Graft uses the stack, so it doesn't work.
@VarteDod Primal Forcemage uses the stack, so it doesn't work
@Alqatrkapa IIRC any graft creature elaborates how to use it, but simply put no, it uses the stack. Graft activates whenever a creature comes into play, ALL of your Graft creatures Graft abilities go on the stack. As each resolves you choose whether or not to put a counter on the creature, then players may respond.
If anyone is curious, this requires the use of static effects because state-based actions are checked whenever a player receives priority. Just like with Allies, Graft or other abilities you have to pass priority (before actually moving/adding any counters and such) which means state-based actions are checked and this guy has 0-toughness. This means it is immediately "sent to the graveyard." Same reason they can't print a zero-toughness Ally.
Static effects however don't use the stack. They are blanket effects so that this guy actually enters play as a 9/1, so isn't sent to the graveyard. Once that happens you can graft, forcemage, buff with spells all you want.
Tapir
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(10 votes)
The life cycle of the Force of Savagery;
The Force of Savagery is born with 0 toughness, and usually only lives when saved by a Leyline of Vitality. Soon after birth, the Force of Savagery is usually forced into Lightning Greaves, or is equipped with a Cloak and Dagger, as it is a very fragile being at its core. Though the Force of Savagery is occasionally kept alive and enhanced further, it is more likely that it is thrust into battle with a Whispersilk Cloak or humble Bonesplitter. Should the Force of Savagery not be instantly buried on the Day of Judgment, which seems to occur unusually frequently just after it is summoned, it is customary to Fling the Force of Savagery at your opponent, and honor its death by defeating your opponent in a humiliating fashion: usually with a barrage of Hornet Stings or a Llanowar Elves ping.
Arachibutyrophobia
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
one of these days they will have to make a reverse-doran
You can even do it on turn two with the likes of Elvish Spirit Guide and Sol Ring, but you are going to need a god draw.
pedrodyl
★★★★☆ (4.2/5.0)(7 votes)
you can still warstorm surge it if you don't have a /+X static effect
Budden
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Gaea's anthem would work.
a7wingedsheep
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It would still do damage when paired with Pandemonium, Right?
Sangre-friodemio666
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
a7wingedsheep
That is correct he hits the board, immediately goes to the graveyard, but Pandemonium only cares that he ENTERED play.
Pandoorex
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(12 votes)
"8/0 was cool, but I'm still holding out hope for something whose toughness is truly absurd beyond belief. Consider the possibilities:
Minister of Fate Legendary Creature -- Minion Demon Overlord 20/-10
When you cast Minister of Fate from your hand, flip thirteen coins. For each flip you win, put a +1/+1 counter on Minister of Fate as it enters the battlefield.
His lucky day sure isn't yours. -Posted By: Salient (1/20/2012 9:25:58 PM) "
should be -1/+1 counters.......
DoragonShinzui
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(10 votes)
Oh Time Spiral, you were such a fun block.
Totema
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
One of the new Soulbond creatures, in particular the ones that give additional P/T, can easily work with this.
Salient
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(13 votes)
Farce of Savagery: "Life cannot be created and then abandoned."
Me: "Hell yes it can." ***plays Force of Savagery without toughness buffs***
rogelio
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(1 vote)
I like how the rulings have to reassure you that it has no toughness, as if you were in disbelief or something. "Yes, Force of Savagery has 0 toughness," the rules tell you condescendingly.
@Totema: nope. Soulbond is a triggered ability and uses the stack; Force of Savagery will go to the graveyard before becoming paired.
Arachnos
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(1 vote)
@Pandoorex: so at best it's a 7/3? Assuming you in every single flip (pretty much impossible without Thumb shenanigans)? Doesn't feel particularly legendary to me =(
That's like calling someone a Peasant King, or a Republican Democrat
Blasphemale
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
How about a simple Undying Evil
FatalEagle
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Sorcery Evolve all your creatures with evolve.
azure_drake222222
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
8/0? Why are we dividing by 0?
TheJank-O-Mancerguy
★★☆☆☆ (2.2/5.0)(2 votes)
I like the art. Can Dan Scott paint my house?
Note also that there is a stack spell that saves this through killing it. Undying evil. Where you play deaths presence, undying evil and this. You have yourself a 17/9 trample all and ready to silverblade paladin next turn. Hah, be glad it isn't standard or you better watch your back.
And by the way, edwinslow, your wrong mighty emergence will keep it alive.
greggbot
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(3 votes)
@ TheJank-O-Mancerguy, Actually, creatures with 0 die as a state based action. This means that there actually isn't time to put something on the stack after this enters the battlefield but before it dies. So nothing that uses the stack can save it, it has to be some kind of global toughness boost.
knight3607
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Shared Triumph Seems to be the best way to get this out on turn 3 and live. Any other cards i missed?
I'd want to just let him go straight to the graveyard, and use him as a direct damage spell. Electropotence maybe?
ViashinoWizard
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Veteran Armorer curves into this nicely.
@Blasphemale: When something has 0 toughness it dies instantly. You don't get to play any spells between when FoS enters play and when it goes to the graveyard.
angrybob4213
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is a great target for Varolz. Give a creature 8 +1/+1 counters for 3? Sounds great!
Rootkit9208
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
In commander, nothing is worse following a board wipe than watching the naya player drop this with Collective blessing and fervor out.
EDIT: nothing outside of ridiculous infinite combos
ProsperoNight
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
This card's new best friend is in M14: Savage Summoning. For 4, get an uncounterable 9/1 with flash and trample. Seems good.
Good with primal Forcemage if you can give it haste.
OstravaBoletaria
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I'm really glad this exists. One of my favourite cards ever.
TheShadow344
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@LazyHunter
A few people have said already that does not work because it will be put into the graveyard as a state-based action immediately upon entering the battlefield because it has 0 toughness. You need to have a static toughness-boosting effect like Gaea's Anthem or Collective Blessing.
@Freyalise Actually, most animals abondon their young after they are born.
blindthrall
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Before undying, some creatures just had dying.
talcumpowder0046
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Dies to itself.
Cool card, but i doubt it's often worth it.
mattrva77
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So... ...
.. Has anyone ever thought about using this in Modern with Varolz, the Scar-Striped? I think I might have the makings of an INSANE Dredge-y Jund deck with this, Varolz, Vexing Devil, and Death's Shadow!
Comments (75)
I have three of these in a blue-green graft deck, so its not uncommon for me to have this guy at 11/3 by the time it hits the field.
No Idea what 'graft' is?
Here: Simic Initiate or Vigean Hydropon are examples.
It's like Lifelink versus the old stuff.
3.5/5
@Grimjaw
Graft uses the stack, so it doesn't work.
@VarteDod
Primal Forcemage uses the stack, so it doesn't work
@Alqatrkapa
IIRC any graft creature elaborates how to use it, but simply put no, it uses the stack. Graft activates whenever a creature comes into play, ALL of your Graft creatures Graft abilities go on the stack. As each resolves you choose whether or not to put a counter on the creature, then players may respond.
If anyone is curious, this requires the use of static effects because state-based actions are checked whenever a player receives priority. Just like with Allies, Graft or other abilities you have to pass priority (before actually moving/adding any counters and such) which means state-based actions are checked and this guy has 0-toughness. This means it is immediately "sent to the graveyard." Same reason they can't print a zero-toughness Ally.
Static effects however don't use the stack. They are blanket effects so that this guy actually enters play as a 9/1, so isn't sent to the graveyard. Once that happens you can graft, forcemage, buff with spells all you want.
The Force of Savagery is born with 0 toughness, and usually only lives when saved by a Leyline of Vitality. Soon after birth, the Force of Savagery is usually forced into Lightning Greaves, or is equipped with a Cloak and Dagger, as it is a very fragile being at its core. Though the Force of Savagery is occasionally kept alive and enhanced further, it is more likely that it is thrust into battle with a Whispersilk Cloak or humble Bonesplitter. Should the Force of Savagery not be instantly buried on the Day of Judgment, which seems to occur unusually frequently just after it is summoned, it is customary to Fling the Force of Savagery at your opponent, and honor its death by defeating your opponent in a humiliating fashion: usually with a barrage of Hornet Stings or a Llanowar Elves ping.
2. turn: Forest, Gaea's Anthem
3. Turn: Forest, Concordant Crossroads, Force of Savagery, beat headz
You can even do it on turn two with the likes of Elvish Spirit Guide and Sol Ring, but you are going to need a god draw.
That is correct he hits the board, immediately goes to the graveyard, but Pandemonium only cares that he ENTERED play.
Minister of Fate
Legendary Creature -- Minion Demon Overlord
20/-10
When you cast Minister of Fate from your hand, flip thirteen coins. For each flip you win, put a +1/+1 counter on Minister of Fate as it enters the battlefield.
His lucky day sure isn't yours. -Posted By: Salient (1/20/2012 9:25:58 PM) "
should be -1/+1 counters.......
Me: "Hell yes it can." ***plays Force of Savagery without toughness buffs***
A minion demon overlord?
That's like calling someone a Peasant King, or a Republican Democrat
Sorcery
Evolve all your creatures with evolve.
Note also that there is a stack spell that saves this through killing it. Undying evil. Where you play deaths presence, undying evil and this. You have yourself a 17/9 trample all and ready to silverblade paladin next turn. Hah, be glad it isn't standard or you better watch your back.
And by the way, edwinslow, your wrong mighty emergence will keep it alive.
Actually, creatures with 0 die as a state based action. This means that there actually isn't time to put something on the stack after this enters the battlefield but before it dies. So nothing that uses the stack can save it, it has to be some kind of global toughness boost.
@Blasphemale: When something has 0 toughness it dies instantly. You don't get to play any spells between when FoS enters play and when it goes to the graveyard.
EDIT: nothing outside of ridiculous infinite combos
A few people have said already that does not work because it will be put into the graveyard as a state-based action immediately upon entering the battlefield because it has 0 toughness. You need to have a static toughness-boosting effect like Gaea's Anthem or Collective Blessing.
Actually, most animals abondon their young after they are born.
Cool card, but i doubt it's often worth it.
.. Has anyone ever thought about using this in Modern with Varolz, the Scar-Striped? I think I might have the makings of an INSANE Dredge-y Jund deck with this, Varolz, Vexing Devil, and Death's Shadow!
Matter of fact, why not include Life From the Loam, Seismic Assault, and Tarmogoyf? I think I'm on to something here...