Pointed Discussion

Bob this is not, and likely will not be a 8 dollar card for long, if you pull it, get rid of them immediately >.>

In standard, this may see fringe play, but a 2/2 for 2 isn't terribly special, and that ability is way to situational to be of any consequence

2/5 Stars

I think this is obviously not as powerful as Dark Confidant, but the internet chatter is severely undervaluing it. I can imagine this being moderately powerful (especially in EDH where you can take full advantage of untapping shenanigans).

This is NOT the next Dark Confidant.
I feel like you people interpret it the wrong way.

I would use it in a B/x aggro variant as an aggressive 2/2 that sometimes draws a card.

4/5

Will likely go the way of Blood Scrivener and Duskmantle Seer.

There is no Bob but Bob, and Legacy is his profit.

what I want in my seeded booster at the prerelease

this dude
Archetype of finality
Bile blight
Drown in sorrow

All the comments say "This is not Bob".

How do YOU know his name isn't Bob? You hardly know what his name is, and you're all just picking on him for no reason. Just because he looks like the cool Bob?

This is why people turn into necromancers, you know.

You are all awful people.

Blood Scrivener
Dark Confidant
Pain Seer

...And a whip of erebos? Sounds like a deck.

Phenax, God of Deception allow the seer to tap without entering combat. Another choice would be Reconnaissance, take the seer right out the the battle and untag.

Sure, he's not Bob, but with Freed from the Real, he becomes Bob whenever you want for UU.

-Swag_Crow

This deserves the price for being the most overhyped card in the set.
Will be fun seeing all the people trying to get him to work while I will just kill them by playing better and bigger stuff.

Will be a bear in black aggro decks should they arise but dont get your hopes up. Not while Mono-Black Devotion and UW Control are the kings.
All the talk is about Standard obviously.

As a reasonably new player, it really is annoying to see cards rated and trashed based on one comment.

"This is not >. Thusly it is garbage."

I personally like this card. Mainly because people are pretty much ignoring 'Inspired' abilities, and they will continue to do so until some pro breaks it. Hopefully all the hate drives this card low, I'll take all I can get.

You people are un-fu(king-pleaseable! No, this isn't Dark Confidant but isn't that a good thing?? The wizards learned that lesson already, they aren't likely to make that mistake again anytime soon. Instead, they gave us this guy, who, while not exactly being amazing, is still good. Give him some protection, he'll help you out. Give him a Paradise Mantle, he'll help you out. If your opponents let him stay on the board, they will hurt, most likely. This will be standard playable at least, and this will see a lot of play on casual matches for the sake of OMG BUDGET BOB but it will still have a place in a couple of decent decks.

Go ahead. Tell me I'm wrong. But you guys are down voting a card that's good, not overpowered, but good on it's own merits.

"We'll keep printing riffs on Dark Confidant until we regret it!"

- Wizards

"OMFG HIS ABILITY DOESNT GO OFF EVERY TURN, HES NOT BOB, 0/10 WOULD NOT PLAY."

It's not hard to get a creature to tap at the end of your opponent's turn. Seriously. Springleaf Drum is in the same set. So is Oracle's Insight. Viridian Longbow? Paradise Mantle? Magic is not fun when there are one-card combos like Bob, and I am glad that this encourages a little thought in its use.

Sorta-kinda Dark Confidants are still sorta-kinda Dark Confidants. Mono-Black Devotion gets even scarier...

Also, Springleaf Drum. This is the reason Wizards reprinted it.

Bomb in limited ?

He's not always a bomb in limited- the inspired ability is not optional. Matt Tabak (Rules Manager and blogger) mentioned that he's drafted many decks that would've been better with Walking Corpses than Pain Seers. If your deck is too expensive, you might need to side him out, even though that would make me sooooo sad.

Dark Confidant is simple and easy. He always gets you that extra card. You have to work to get it with Pain Seer. But if you do that work... Just imagine getting a Seer on the battlefield and untapping with an Elite Arcanist with Triton Tactics... hey, I can dream, can't I?

Combob.

1/5. If the card you get isn't a land, you're screwed. All this does is force you to scry your fatties to the bottom. This isn't like Griselbrand where you attack for 7 with lifelink and then use that 7 to draw, this might do 7 damage to you for one card. Not worth it.

Looking at the comments, its easy to find the people who never played with Dark Confidant :P

Anyway. This card is clearly inspired by Bob. The major difference is that Bob gives you something for nothing. Once he's on the field, he will do this effect once every turn with no other input.

The seer here requires a little more effort. He has summoning sickness, so chances are he'll only tap at all the turn AFTER he comes into play. There are of course tricks to tap him before then, but on average you're probably looking at his inspired trigger first occurring the turn after you play him.

The upside of the investment and delayed wait is that Seer can POTENTIALLY go off multiple times in a turn. Dark Confidant can do this, but it requires some more unusual tricks like paradox haze.

Basically, Dark Confidant is awesome in that he can pretty much just be plopped into any deck and he will be useful. This card needs you to have a couple effects that make him as efficient, but he can become a better card in the right circumstances.

That said, this'll probably be a regular in standard. And I would not be surprised if you see both him and Bob, or see him as an alternative in decks that can more easily invest in the need to tap, in modern and other formats

Kudos for making him a 2/2, Wizards. That does make it a little more likely that if you're forced to tap by attacking, it might survive to your enxt untap step.

This card WILL see Standard play. I'll even go ahead now and predict Modern.

You people saying that you ONLY want land with this... you don't understand at all how a card like this is supposed to be used. In Mono-Black right now, this guy along with Herald of Torment are GONNA siphon your life down pretty low -- while blasting your opponent and keeping your hand stocked. Then, if you can get out a Gray Merchant of Asphodel with high black devotion, you gain all that life right back. That's how black works! Stabilize.

@mattrva: as long as bob is in modern this guy will not see play in that format. This guy has to attack or requires another card in play. Bob just works. Don't get me wrong, this guy is OK. He will probably find a way into a standard deck but I don't think it will be black devotion. The deck doesn't need it.

Use something that untaps him over and over for massive card draw and life loss :)
He looks good for something like cheap combo. If you can keep untapping him more than once per turn, your combo will come to your hand very quickly...

He's not as powerful as Bob, but his ability is more flavorful and encourages players to play carefully to make the most of it. He gets a high rating from me just for that.

Let me begin by saying THIS IS NOT BOB, BUT ITS REALLY CLOSE

And let me say (more importantly) YOU WILL NOT BE SWINGING WITH THIS CARD

Rob, as I'm going to call the seer from now on, is going to see some very specific play. Rob will see play with Springleaf Drum to increase the tempo of monoblack. T1 drum, T2 Rob, T3 6/6 Demon! Plus some extra card draw so T4 hits a Merchant for 5, gaining back all the life you lost with Rob and having fun with 10 point life swings.

Anyone who doesn't like this card because they'll have to attack with it obviously hasn't realized just how good this card really is. Rob doesn't have to attack to tap. Even if you want to attack with it, you can put Aqueous Form on it for scry 1 so you know what you're drawing, and triton tactics to draw multiple cards per turn (something MUCH more difficult to do with Bob.)

Personally, I like Rob just as much as Bob. Rob takes a little bit more planning to use, but he has so much potential that he is definitely on par with Bob, in my opinion. I think Bob is definitely going to continue to dominate Modern just because of how simple he is to just drop into any deck. However, I definitely think Rob is going to be sitting pretty in some Top 8's for standard and some definitely Niche play in Modern.

Rob gets a 5/5 from me. I can't wait to get my playset for $35 before they jump to ridiculous prices once a pro breaks it and takes it with him to the Pro Tour.

Don't worry Pain Seer, I like you more than bob because I can twiddle and hidden strings you for more cards then bob would ever give me. The fact that there are so many good tap cards at instant speed in this set is great too, like Claim of Erebos, or go bug and use prophet of kruphix with Claim. Throw in Kiora's Follower as well.

Can we call this guy Bill, who is not bob but still broke as shit?

I don't know, this plus Witches' Eye seems like it would have some merit, especially in draft.

So I'm wondering why nobody mentioned thought of running both this and Dark Confidant instead of complaining that it's not the same thing. Then you could have 8 cards that could be functionally the same

Does dis Bob got the booty?


He dooooooooo!


Certainly inferior to the original, as it is very conditional, but on the other hand it does survive more than a */1 would. While he won't be better than The Great One, this is pretty good in standard at least. Any card that needs another card to work is going to be inconsistent. Bob works just fine alone while this guy needs other cards that can capitalize on his ability in order to function.

The thing about Bob is that he changes the curve of an entire deck. Usually he is played with a lot of CMC 1-3, possibly a few 4-5 and nothing above 5 CMC. The draw he provides allows a player to make their land drops more consistently and with fewer cards than would otherwise be required. This means that a deck with 4 Dark Confidant can expect to be able to play more spells in the deck, increasing the utility of said deck. Because you don't have to run so many lands, you can squeeze more power out of each hand. The life loss is irrelevant unless you are at 0 or at a point where you can be bolted or shocked for game. Most high level magic games come down to marginal card advantage and tempo, not dropping a player down to 0 life (though that is how you win, it rarely just happens like that; players grind to set up a superior board state and try and keep opponents from gaining ground, exceptions made for Storm and other life based combo decks) or decking out, as most inexperienced players believe.


And no, Bob isn't really good in any deck, only control, aggro and tempo based decks. Don't bother playing him in midrange or decks that focus on big spells. Losing 3 life is ok, picking up Emrakul for 15 is not.

Freed From The Real

I don't understand why people don't love this. Bob is mostly played in Jund, and guess what else is in Jund's colors that taps him down, draws a card, and also gives you a mana dork to boot(and at common, no less)?
Karametra's Favor.
Sure, it's two cards, not one, and you're paying {2}{B}{G} for a Bob, but it gives you one free mana a turn, and Favor replaces itself, so you aren't even down on card advantage. Oh, and also, IT'S IN STANDARD.
In Modern, that combo can be like a second playset of Bob.
This WILL see play in Standard. It will be a very welcome addition to Monoblack Devotion, which lacks in card advantage with all the Detention Spheres exiling all the Underworld Connections, or in {W}{U}{B} or {W}{B} control. Both can stand to include a card advantage machine, and all the life gained from Archangel of Thune and Sphinx's Revelation is just begging to be spent.

SirLibraryEater: uh did you notice springleaf drum was back with this cause it's better.
By the way i love the fact that you want to abuse him till it bleeds you to death.
More cards more cards till no drip of blood.

Could synergize with powerful x spells, because the cmc as according to this guy will take x to be zero, but you'll be able to cast it for it's full effect.

I love this guy because he's always a turn 2/3 removal magnet in limited.

The life cycle of cards like this is fascinating, much like Duskmantle Seer. They start at a million dollars based upon speculation, then plummet to close to a buck.

Duskmantle's drawback that forced him out of many decks was both his higher mana cost and the need for blue mana splashed.

Pain Seer's issue isn't that he's "OMG! TERRIBLE!", it's more that he's best suited for decks that can utilize him. Mono black doesn't need this card, not with Pack Rat.

At Friday night magic, I played against a beautiful Orzhov enchantment deck that brutalized and finished undefeated. It had 4 Brimaz Cat Soldiers, 4 Pain Seers, 4 Eidolon of Countless Battles, 4 Ethereal Armor, 4 God's Willing, 4 Gift of Orzhova, 4 Orzhov Charms, 4 Dark Favor, etc. Nothing in the deck cost above 3 mana and had a good mixture of positive life loss abilities and life gain.

Pain Seer was brutal in this deck, as the mana curve and power ability was strong enough, but getting an extra draw each turn was too much to overcome for most decks. Chances to remove a dangerous enchanted creature were met with God's Willing.

I picked up a playset at a buck apiece, and was thrilled. There's a lot of possible decks in which he might work - even a Rakdos brutal speed deck that could use an extra draw each turn and isn't concerned with the minor life loss.

A 2/2 bob! Very cool for casual; as now I can have my Bob AND my Plague Spitter. Good times :)

Those are dead people dangling from the ceiling O.o

Sure, he’s no Bob, the Dark Confidant, but in a format where they’ve brought Springleaf Drum back into Standard, this is top draw. Magnificent, and glorious artwork too. Though the Game Day promo makes him look a lot like Agent of the Fates.

Literally every comment I've seen here is "I'm sick of everyone saying that this isn't Dark Confidant." I haven't actually seen anyone complain that it isn't Dark Confidant, mind you. Is this all a pre-emptive strike, or...?

@Kirbster
It is probably not about the comments here, but about the comments people make IRL or in forums or other places. I can imagine that when this guy was spoiled, there was probably a lot of people who were saying things like that.

I think this guy is pretty damn boss. Obviously weaker than dark confidant, but that is a good thing. He is still a huge threat if you don't have the means to deal with him. Imagine a black/red deck loaded with removal and burns with this guy to keep tacking on 2 damage while refuelling the removal. It would be annoying as hell. Don't forget, they even have thoughtseize in standard right now, so that could be brutal. Cheap burns and targeted discard to protect this guy and get him through, and he will just make you win.

Here's a by-the-numbers comparison of Bob and Slow Bob:

Bob:
1B Mana Cost
2/1 Body
Card faux-draw every upkeep

Slow Bob:
1B Mana Cost
2/2 Body
Conditional faux-card draw, usually every upkeep* after the first.

*Recall Rule 502.3 that all triggers that would happen during the untap step are held until the next time a player receives priority... usually the upkeep

So the difference is that Bob provides mostly free guaranteed card draw every turn, while Slow Bob is slightly more resilient and you have more control over the cards you draw with him, at the cost of risking card advantage (explained later).

Since Legacy and Standard/Modern are very different animals, let us examine Slow Bob in them separately:

Standard/Modern:
As explained in other posts, Springleaf Drum is the way to go for accelerating mono-black devotion's strategy, providing both card draw and mana acceleration to drop bombs like Gray Merchant of Asphodel. He can also provide blocks and beats if needed, but his main use is his ability, not his body.

Legacy:
This format is a very different animal from Standard/Modern. Bob is an outstanding card for Legacy for 5 reasons:
1. He draws cards.
2. He beats for 2, and trades with X/2's
3. He draws cards.
4. He is solidly costed and splashable
5. He draws cards.
Slow Bob shares Bob's casting cost and ability to beat, and has a better body. However, Slow Bob is not as reliable at drawing cards as Bob. If Bob lives to your next upkeep, he cantrips himself. If he lives to the following upkeep, he starts drawing a profit. Slow Bob, on the other hand, cannot draw a card until two turns later, and is doomed to forever being a turn behind Bob. Cards that could Twiddle Slow Bob are not run in Legacy, since Slow Bob isn't an Elf. Therefore the only way to tap Slow Bob in Legacy will be to run him into your opponent's Batterskull.

Slow Bob is strong in Mono-Black Devotion in Standard, and may see play in Modern alongside his older brother. However, he will not see play in any serious Legacy deck, though he may crop up in a fringe deck composed of tapping/untapping wankery.

hell ral zarek and this guy nets quite a bit of card advantage all hail grixis

Of course it's not Confidant, doesn't make it bad. Bears in Black is already viable, just looking for the best way to tap him for benefits and not swinging. Any ideas? The drum is so so... 4/5

It isn't bob. But its still value.