Pointed Discussion

Changelings everywhere smile as they become Gods.

I'm personally somewhat disappointed by Erebos... He is the only God to break the cycle of having either 1 CMC more or 1 less than his weapon, his static ability seems rather specialized (no one ever played Havoc Festival or Forsaken Wastes), and his Greed is very greedy indeedy.

As if a 5/7 Indestructible for 4 wasn't good enough, clearly Wizards hasn't learned the lesson of just how good card draw from life is (see Griselbrand, Necropotence and Yawgmoth's Bargain all being banned or restricted)

I can see this guy getting banned as a commander. Not immediately, mind you, but it will happen.

Almost makes me wish Thragtusk had been reprinted in M14.

Seeing as how Erayo, Soratami Ascendant was banned as a commander, I suspect all the gods will be as well. Looking forward to finding out. Because Purphoros, God of the Forge would be really interesting.

Not the God of the Dead that we wanted, but the one we needed, the one we deserved.

All said Greed is a very powerful effect and randomly stopping life gain is nice. Might just make it to standard for the greed, but should be an all star in EDH.

Makes me want to do some sort of monoblack shell in modern involving Geralf's Messenger and Gravecrawler. Resilient 5-Devotion on two already known to be constructed playables? Could be a thing.

The activate reminds me a lot of the warlock passive in Heartstone xD

this is one of the many reasons why path to exile's price wont go down, no matter how many reprints it get..

You know what makes black interesting with this? Sacrifice effects. You can turn him off of creature status by saccing something else. If you play this little balancing act he should be nigh impossible to get rid of.

If using in Legacy, the immediate Go-to would be The Gate; where you go from Gatekeeper of Malakir, into Nighthawk, and boom. You can also wait to drop another critter until it's time to attack in order to give him psuedo-haste or get the chance to see their hand with discard spells.

I can't....I don't even....instant speed card draw?

Theros is a near perfect set.

In standard, turns Devour Flesh into Diabolic Edict. Since they both fit nicely into a mono-black control shell...well, one can't help but brew.
Also incidentally hoses the Archangel of Thune shenanigan decks which may happen.

Possibly the most powerful of the 5 gods. Both of his signature abilities can be game-changing, even in decks not built around him.

Preventing your opponents from gaining life is one thing - it shuts down life gain and a few other shenanigans like exquisite blood + sanguine bond, or life changers like invincible hymn, tree of redemption, and eternity vessel. But being able to draw cards by paying life is another entirely! I can very easily see this being banned in Commander and Modern.

I imagine most black mages are going to be using Erebus to counter Sphinx's Revelation.

Works very well with Devour Flesh and shuts down the life from Sphinx's Revelation.

He looks pretty Greedy

Definitely one of my favorite gods, next to Purphoros, God of the Forge. Also, surprised no one mentioned it yet but he turns Alms Beast into a 6/6 with no drawback.

So here's a question about the Theros gods. I know their indestructible, but what if someone wanted to use something that exiled them, then they're not destroyed, so what if you played an instant to kill one of YOUR creatures, so your devotion dropped below five? Because then they're not creatures. So would that mean the effect would no longer apply? Reply if you have an answer.

Oh my God.

@purplerooster made a valid statement.

With this in play, we have freaking Diabolic Edict in Standard when we play Devour Flesh!!

are you allowed to have 4 of these in your deck it being a god card?

@kinghydra510

Pretty sure you have it right. As soon as your devotion goes below 5, Erebos becomes an enchantment as a state based effect. So your kill makes him no longer a creature, the exile has no valid target and therefore fizzles.

@kinghydra510 Let's Assume it is standard and your opponent cast Chained to the Rocks and targets Erebos and you cast Hero's Downfall targeting let's say Gray Merchant of Asphodel the Merchant will die, the game will check to see if anything changes it will notice that Erebos is no longer a creature and Chained to the Rocks effect will fizzle seeing it now has no legal target and it will just sit there forever(if it was a Path to Exile i would just fizzle and go to the graveyard. I might not have used the correct terms for certain things but that is what would happen.

Toughest of the gods. Also, he is definitely NOT evil. Read the flavor guide to learn more!

I guess they dont care about the 2 billion christians.

Nice work printing "God" as a creature type, as well as "Devil" and all the other nonsense

1) Athiests dont give a shit either way
2) Way to lose customers for nothing


And here come the wave of 1/2 star votes.

@TheWrathofShane, If you can't let a fantasy game use creature types that are incredibly flavorful, solely because of your religion, there is something wrong with you.

While you're at it, you may as well point out that the angels are all females, whereas the bible clearly names only male angels.

I'm not as sold on Erebos as most people are. His static ability is pretty situational and won't matter most of the time unless you're playing against UWx Control, and two life and two mana is a hefty price for one card, even at instant speed and without a tap clause. He'll probably see some Standard play, but not as much as Purphoros or Thassa will. Devour Flesh is very nice with him, though.

@TheWrathofShane - And I suppose that you're not concerned about any of the other many religions in the world? Or the majority of people that are happy to accept concepts such as gods and devils in a fantasy game? The idea of Christianity holding exclusive rights over any form of 'angel' or 'devil' seems fairly offensive as of itself - is Greek mythology to be excluded from our media because it conflicts with Christian mythology? Both of them are equally valid.

If people choose to exclude themselves from a form of media because it involves religious connotations (whether that's a game, literature, media or anything else), then let them make that decision. They care about their audience, not the people who have already made their decision.

Best of those gods in Theros, but still weak.

This guy is positively nasty as a general! It's easy to underestimate extra cards, even at the price that Erebos offers them, but if you can pack some lifegain (as mono-B often does,) then it's incredibly effective. The ability to pop in as a creature is just gravy. Plus, he's indestructible! Even in the event of an exile, he's so cheap it shouldn't be a big deal to get him back at all!

@TheWrathofShane Get over yourself, bub. Although, I'm glad you described Gods and Devils as "nonsense" because that's exactly what they are... except in MTG.

All "Gods" are equally fictitious. Might as well pray to Erebos.

so it's a Greed that's indestructible. The downside is that it costs another colorless mana to activate the ability... but did i mention that it turns into a brute of a creature just for you playing other black permanents with another ability for gravy??? Yea, 4.5.

Imagine my surprise when I bought a booster and lo and behold, out pops this guy ...

This card alone makes all annoying lifelink decks squirm in their deck boxes.

5/5 for pure awesomeness - a 5/7 for 4 that's indestructible and prevents opponents from gaining life!? R&D has officially gone off the deep end again.

http://www.5colorcontrol.com/noshyfts/

I would say he's being overrated. The card draw is awesome but it's very very expensive. He's not a creature all that much and his static ability is fairly niche - how much does lifegain really matter? All the other gods have much better static abilties. I think this blow over and he'll drop to a dollar.

CONTINUED FROM DARTH PARALLAX:

TheWrathofShane: it's not so much that WOTC ''doesn't care about 2 billion Christians"-- it's that most of the world has been effected by Christian Culture, which is strongly ingrained in our Medieval Fantasy and Art, but ALSO, that same Western Tradition was HEAVILY touched by Greco-Roman and Norse Pagans, and the Pagans seem to have a similar opinion to Gods that you might expect from Easter Philosophers.....and just quite frankly, the Holy Bible is an incredibly unpopular text, because its Absoluteness goes directly against what Philosophy tends to lead us to believe. People tend to favor the Greek and Pagan and Eastern View, ESPECIALLY if it starts to sound like Star Wars to them....

I personally, am one of those people, and we are like that because we find the idea that the Bible to be True BOTH:

A) Frustratingly Uncertain, even when a dedicated honest person tries to find out, they hit Paradox and Mystery and it's a matter of Faith, not Knowledge. It is NOT Impossible for God to exist, nor even for the Bible to be True-- but what is impossible is to follow that religion because you KNOW it. Rather instead, to put Trust in it is a huge leap of Faith.

B) Downright Terrifying. The Biblical view of God is something so Absolute, and we've never encountered any other Perfect Being, that we prefer to think ourselves smarter than God, prefer to believe that if any such being existed, SURELY they would be like Superman in "Injustice: Gods Among Us". Superman from the One Earth Government was capable of becoming Evil. Superman from our home universe was ALSO CAPABLE of becoming Evil, but he just happened to have not fallen yet.
A God that IS GOOD, but COULD become Evil, is one that is TERRIFYING to put Trust in.

C) The Bible claims God never even COULD become Evil, and that's what most people really disbelieve.

Gatherers: The Wrath of Shane is simply a White Wizard, one who follows his Religion, he's a Zealot, he's an Absolutist. In and of themselves, these are not bad things: because WHAT IF His God actually is the True God? He is STUBBORN, of course, and that might be grating to the rest of us.

But even though I sometimes see him make a naïve-ish sounding comment, he also doesn't seem to have any hate in him. He's rough, perhaps. He reminds me of Aberforth Dumbledore more than Albus,

I'm sure he hasn't read Harry Potter (maybe he has....I hope he liked it. :) But Albus VERY CLEARLY stated that he thought Aberforth was the better wizard.

If any of you that think yourselves so above him because you think you have a broader mind or some knowledge he doesn't: prove it by stop hating him for his beliefs. At least Shane believes in something.

I confess that I can't honestly say I do believe in anything. And I would guess that most of you don't really believe in anything either. It's embarrassing to admit you don't have any beliefs, so I can understand why maybe nobody will raise their hand with me on that one.

Think of Shane as someone who implicitly Trusts Superman, or in this case, God, and the rest of yourselves as Batman, if you have to. Batman would also say he wishes he could trust Superman more than he does. Why honestly should Shane deserve your resent, if in reality his only problem is that he's more innocent? People that Trust Christian God remind me of children-- EVEN IF they are wrong, they are usually nice folk, and people that look down on Proselytizers remind me of people who kick puppies and steal candy.

Gatherer, you should be ashamed of yourself that the Top Comment here is what it is, because I can tell you Erebos would agree with me even if God would not. I constantly apologize to God for not truly being entirely on his side, the way I believe Erebos wishes Heliod would understand him more.

I think if you want Shane to quit Magic, then you should vote for Wizards to get rid of the whole color White, too.

This needed to be said once. I hope people grow and that nobody feels the need to say it again.

Shane, if your God is right, I am a lost one. Please pray for me.

I need one of these signed by James Woods, with an artist-alter of blue flaming hair. :P


I'm going to restate the comment in question for people to see:

"I guess they dont care about the 2 billion Christians. Nice work printing "God" as a creature type, as well as "Devil" and all the other nonsense
1) Atheists dont give a shit either way
2) Way to lose customers for nothing
And here come the wave of 1/2 star votes." --The Wrath of Shane

WrathofShane: I'm sure I'm going to get a slew of 1/2 star votes too, bub, so I feel your pain. :/
I think some of your points are off, because first, WOTC presents a very 'holistic' view in a Fantasy land. That's just always going to be popular and get them more customers, not fewer. Read Ravnica Lore, and they even let RAKDOS have 'a place and a purpose', even though the rest of their own guilds in their own world think they're crazy. White Lanterns might see something in Rakdos, but even most Blue and Violet ones would say Rakdos should be stamped out. Most people think the Joker deserves death. Atheists DO care, a lot more than you'd think they would by the way. 10:1 says all your downvotes came from atheists or from people that think they're Christian and see better than you. I find you both somewhat blind, but I find your type of blindness much less repulsive ironically. :P


Listen, everyone on Gatherer: The Wrath of Shane is not the only Christian MTG player. And though it is clear that sadly, he doesn't seem interested in getting into civilized philosophical debate, it remains that ultimately, he is simply dismissing things outside of his religion as meaningless.

Which is what nearly everyone with a religious opinion of any kind, or a worldview of any kind, does.

I think the use of imagination fairly commonly and strongly leads people to believe that though right and wrong exist, good and evil's relationship to each other is one of relativity, not absoluteness.

But most people don't exercise their imagination. Most people in the world don't think like nerds and gamers do. And in fact, though I count myself as one of the imaginative, sometimes I stay up at night worrying that there's an Absolute God, that I'm wrong.

I like him a lot and I realize that the draw effect is really potent but I really don't like that "opponents can't gain life" effect. It just seems so random and underwhelming. Regardless of how good it might actually be, it just doesn't appeal to me.

DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK ****s

I ended up attending 2 sealed events, the first saw me pull both this guy and Purphyros. I pulled Erebos again in the very next event. Both times the draw proved absolutely incredible.

@Darthparallax: Why should we respect his beliefs when he has no respect for any beliefs but his own? Some children who read this forum might actually be led to agree with him and think that in including angels, devils and gods in mtg, Wizards were insulting their religion.

This actually helps Alms Beast a fair bit...

The skinniest god has the highest toughness.

Phyrexian Obliterator. That is all.

After playing with him in EDH, there is something you should consider:

An Indestructible Greed with half of Everlasting Torment is nothing to scoff at... but is that a good thing? Whether you believe it or not, players are more threatened by big cards like this, and are more inclined to attack you or stop you from doing things. Having board presence that's nearly impossible to deal with can look like a bigger threat than board presence that's going to do more damage.
In comparison, some might find Uril, the Miststalker a bigger threat than Rafiq of the Many solely on the fact that Uril has Hexproof, and unless you've experienced Rafiq first hand, you'd agree.

That being said, you can't just chump your deck so it doesn't look like a threat. You'd have little power, and unless you have an ability to get Reigns of Power multiple times, you're not going to have many attackers.

I made a commander deck with this as my general. Awesome card draw, and hard to get rid of; though not impossible. I really love what they did with these god cards; it is very imaginative.

Also, in response to some of the other comments I saw about adding God as a card type. It is important to remember that this is a game not real life...

If you start worshiping Erebos, however, then you have a problem...

Of all the god cards I wouldn't worship him... he might make me do things that I don't want...

Bad card. Opponents gaining life is such a niche thing. Also, two life for one card?! If I wanted to replace my hand that way, I'd be down 14 life and most certainly be losing.

-Swag_Crow

A cheap indestructible card draw engine in black is already insanely good. Add to that the capability to attack for 5 damage AND another gravy ability on top (which actually may be relevant if lifegain becomes a thing in standard, as one person already mentioned it hoses Archangel of Thune), and all that for only 4 mana... The Whip of Erebos alone will negate the life loss, not to mention the plethora of other lifegain cards black has to offer. Now that I'm thinking about the whip I notice this is the only god that does not curve out with his weapon, wise move wizards, both of those cards on the table by turn 4 would be nuts.

Yeah, the card draw is easily the best activated ability of the gods. That's why it has the weakest static ability.

Edit @ Swag crow: Maybe it's not a tournament thing but gaining life is certainly NOT a niche thing in casual magic. As for the 2 life per card, I think it's been proven that 1 life per card is a bit too powerful (Necropotence, Yawgmoth's bargain, and more recently Mr.Griselbrand). I love this design, it's a wonderful example of a strong yet balanced black card.

Decent card.

Limited/Standard fodder.

3/5 to 4/5

I love the backgrounds for the enchantment creatures.

If wotc didn't include things based on contrary-ness to X religion it wouldn't be nearly as interesting in flavor and almost surely wouldn't exist at all. MTG doesn't masquerade as a religious game and doesn't try to be anything more than a game so by any reasonable standard it doesn't need to excuse or justify any non-maliciously intended gameplay piece or theme.

Until wotc does claim religious significance or starts a deliberate campaign against a religion either playing mtg at all is a forbidden act by your religion in which case wotc need not worry about a specific gameplay piece or complaints against specific gameplay pieces on religious grounds will be rightly ridiculed as the misguided words of touchy nuisances.

guys you know what would be weird phyrexia invading theros and Erebos is the first to turn God now i want it MAKE IT SO WIZARDS

How has no one mentioned Swords to plowshares yet?

I'm still trying to figure out why he narrated the Journey Into Nyx Trailer...

How many commander decks with black do not include Erebos? 1 out of 10? What do they consider doing to a card once it becomes an auto-include?

My favorite of the 5 mono-colored Gods.

Opponents can't gain life - Will always come up in a multi-player game of EDH.

Amazing ways to activate him: Phyrexian Obliterator, Phage the Untouchable, Reiver Demon

Great general potential too. Indestructible, card draw, and in colors where the life loss can easily be accommodated. 4.5/5.