Pointed Discussion

Every four turns a wrath is no joke, especially when you consider that her tokens stay ex post facto and that emblem will seal out games with rapidity, assuming you can ever get it off...

4.5/5 Stars

this is theros pack rat. but this will see play in standrad

Please note that the ultimate, while actually rather weak, is designed to allow the soldier tokens she produces to survive her own Reprisal sweeper.

Though, really, it could have given lifelink and vigilance too. No kill like overkill!

A plus ability that gives 3 chump blockers to defend itself? Riiight.

I think people are forgetting the 6cmc mana cost. Don't get me wrong, she's not a bad card. But expensive walkers have to have very playable + abilities to be of any use. She still doesn't compete, though, with the likes of Karn Liberated or Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker. Will she see play in standard? I don't think she will.

Her +1 is mortifying in swarm decks but is it worth the cost compared to the other Elspeths?
@ Doaj Bolas is very hard to cast because of his colors and in order for Karn to be useful you NEED his ultimate, Elspeth is a very nicecard for the semi-causal crowd and unlike the other twoshe is decently powered and fair.

If standard does end up being more on the slow side I can see this being good. Making a bunch of little idiots is always solid and being able to wrath at any time is also very nice. Ultimate seems weak compaired to others, but it will end the game all the same.

Can't wait to get this card for my mono-white weenie soldier tribal EDH deck. Excellent card in commander; probably marginally less awesome in standard.

It's gonna be the new 6 mana finisher for Esper or anything with White midrange/control. Aetherling really need 7-8 mana to really protect.

Remember you read it here.

Doaj, you're comparing her to two of the most powerful planeswalkers ever printed. Both Karn and Bolas pretty much win a game single-handedly. New Elspeth, like the new Garruk, represents a new kind of 'walker. Her abilities provide very real, tangible advantage that require an answer, but not as immediately as Jace, the Mindsculptor (an even more powerful 'Walker than Bolas or Karn) or even Gideon Jura (less powerful, but definitely stronger than most of the other walkers printed around the same time or since). I think Wizards is seeking to balance out the planeswalker permanent type, similar to how they balanced out hexproof. Plus, the format is definitely going to slow down, so six mana may suddenly not become an issue even for a midrange-y token swarm deck.

Theros is looking like it's gonna be a really great set for EDH. This Elspeth cranks out tokens faster than any Elspeth before her, although, it takes her longer to hit the board. And that is a really nice wrath effect for any token deck.

Post-Theros is likely to be a slower format, and Elspeth could be a shining star in B/W midrange and U/W control. Her ultimate is not super-important, it is her ability to protect herself and destroy threats on demand that make her so strong. Six 1/1 tokens in a row is nothing to sneeze at.

With all three of her abilities being incredibly useful and highly-synergistic, a cheaper converted mana cost would make her downright broken.

That's a damned OP plus ability...

Army in a can. Just add 1.
<3<3<3

Am I the only one who feels like this card is... underwhelming?

Sure, the +1 is awesome, but the other two abilities feel kind of meh, and she's pretty highly costed. Maybe Standard will prove me wrong, but as of now, I feel like this is one of the weakest Planeswalkers ever printed.

Xenagos, on the other hand...

It is awesome how all three abilities synergize with each other and even better because it is not very apparent. If your opponent only has three non-evasive creatures, you can chump block quite effectively until you draw an answer.

I'm liking the general trend towards fatter 'walkers lately, seeing Liliana of the Veil in every single deck that played Black in every single format (soon minus Standard) gets really damn old. Same story with JtMS in the older formats, or increasingly Ajani Vengeant in Modern.

I don't mind 'walkers seeing competitive play, but the problem is there's a huge margin for error and an incredibly tiny medium. On one hand, you can get 'walkers who are too efficient and powerful, which then go on to be in every deck ever that can fit them, and that nudges formats towards ***genizing on top of making the "iconic mythics" of the game's core cast of characters very hard to obtain. On the other hand, you can get garbage like Tibalt if Wizards is too cautious.

With fatwalkers, you don't have to worry so much about efficiency, because the decks that play them are more specialized towards their inclusion in the curve, and it's only logical that Wizards is more willing to do powerful, fun, or even entirely new things with stuff that isn't going to get dorked into play turn 1 with Dark Ritual.

Don't listen to those Pro-Ana CMC people! Support fatwalkers!

Theros needs a hero. But Theros' hero needs to be a little cheaper.

She is really solid though, and her middle ability will make room nicely for white swarm decks. But that mana cost still gets me down.

I need to Vorthos gush a little here ^^ . She's built this time as a fighter of monsters. Her minus three is perfectly reflective of her arrival in Theros, she arrives late (6 mana cost - as is befitting of Elspeth, motivation has always been her biggest problem) - but when she does she can immediately save the poor meek townsfolk from evil hydras (or anything with power 4 or greater) This brings her the loyalty of said meek people (next turn +1) Her community and admiration grows her following larger and larger, the cycle of community growing into her acts of protective destruction.

and something in Elspeth is changing. Before she hated the admiration. Her attraction of adoring 1/1 soldiers took energy from her, but here, where they see her not as a god, but as a link to the gods - where they, like her, look to something bigger - she's able to actually draw something from drawing them. It still takes considerable energy to protect them, but now it is them, not her gift of life to her allies, that feeds her.

The minus 7 is interesting. She's going back to her Elspeth knight errant style but this time permanently. The flying + buff power is something Elspeth shares with Ajani, caller of the pride - and I can't help but wonder if it's this that is drawing her back to this style. Elspeth recently wrote a letter ( http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/263 ) to Ajani, and there seemed to be a little hero worship - interesting to see how this all turns out.

-And hey guys, 6 for what she does is still extraordinary. Would you play planar cleansing for six? I know I do - now imagine it just destroys creatures but it's also a one sided board wipe that misses their little guys. I'd still consider that worth it. Now add on a free captain's call every turn after that. She may come in late, but white can drag the game to six mana easy, and she makes an amazing finisher.

I like to think of this as "Captain of the Watch" meets "Elspeth, Knight-Errant"


CMC says a lot about a creature's or a Planeswalker's "size", to Vorthos. Sure, everyone else knows that it's the little number in the lower-right corner that **actually** determines "size", but Vorthos cares about CMC for non-Engineered Explosives reasons!

2:
Tibalt CMC is hard to evaluate just what that means. *Ignited* on Innistrad, a plane of devils and horrors, one would think he'd be more imposing? He definitely feels like he's got *potential*, flavor wise, so his low CMC seems to go with Domri Rade's to show how young he is. He has the vitality but also the lack of experience of youth. Story Wise I hope his character reappears as a 5-cost Walker, after he's been taught a few important lessons about being too much of a yuppy by Sorin, Lord of Innistrad :)

3:
Johnny tips his hat to Spike here and knows that 3 CMC is quick and ferocious in gameplay terms. Ajani, Caller of the Pride, Jace Beleren, and Liliana of the Veil have a variety of ages between them, but they are all ....as Avatar Roku would put it.....decisive. They know what they are here to do and they are going to do it.
One way or another, the battle will be over quickly, either because they provide a crushing advantage in their attacks, or because they cause such a disturbance that all fire becomes focused on them, and they burn out.

4:
This is the Hall of Heroes. 4 CMC Walkers have a prestigious pedigree of Victory to preserve....and yet...these Champions and Paragons of the Pro Tour...usually carry a stigma as well. They all come across as titans larger-than-life, they tend to be over-costed in terms of real-world *acquisition rites*, and they bear themselves...proudly. Almost Too Proudly. Do you think you can stick a 0ne-trick pony in your deck and start destroying armies? You may win a battle or a few that way, but expecting a Famous, Powerful Planeswalker card to win all your battles for you just being itself...isn't the best way to get really really good at MAGIC. The Mind Sculptor, the Vengeant, the Veil-Cursed...you KNOW who they are and I don't have to list them for you.

5-6: These PUSH the envelope of what CMC 'is competitive' or not, and require a LOT more thought, effort, and dedication to strategy to make work. They are not so haughty that they are above being Team Players, in fact, that's the only role they're fit for. They wisely support your deck from the sidelines offering you many large spell effects without attempting or desiring to be Alone on the Battlefield. They fit in Control decks more than Aggro Decks, to a Virtue not a fault, and in general, even the ones less powerful than the 4 CMC Super Walkers seem....Wiser. Venser, Gideon and Elspeth are excellent examples..

If you want a FIGHTER, look to the 3 or 4 slot. If you want a LEADER, though....you might want them to cost a few more mana and have a couple more years on their brow :)

7+: OK these are just Monster-Planeswalkers or God-Planeswalkers and you play them because you want to Destroy Everyone with your TIMMY SMASH overpowered piece of cardboard. :P They are FATTY WALKERS :D

Pretty "meh" mechanics-wise. Can't Elspeth do anything else besides make soldiers and pump them?

@master_biomancer
Karn does not need his ultimate to be useful at all. Spamming +4 and -3 to constantly exile permanents is broken. The +4 on him is broken because it is still card advantage, but pretty much the equivalent of "at the beginning of your upkeep, you gain 4 life and an opponent discards a card". Then you get to vindicate all day when you have some breathing room.

Nicol bolas isn't hard to cast because of his colours (well he is, but it's easy to get all that by 8 mana). He is hard to cast because 8 mana.

However, I don't agree that this Elspeth will not see standard play. It may not, but it will at least be tried, and there is always a chance it can work.

Sigh. I've now seen my favorite planeswalker go from godly, to average, to downright unplayable. Now that one of the cards i was most excited about is an utter disappointment, I have about three cards I want in this entire set. I guess i'll just be buying singles...what a bummer.

Is she also a master of karate and friendship for everyone?

Fans of this card are really happy, meanwhile everyone else is in the fetal position in a corner slowly muttering, "White weenie decks. Too many white weenie decks."

I don't know why people say this Elspeth is unplayable. I mean, the format is going to be much slower, plus Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx and Boros Reckoner are cards.

Pulled a foil of her at the pre-release. I have never been happier, and she went straight in my red/white token/burn/control deck. Now I just need the red god and I'll be a happy man.

First off, let me say that I admire Cloudchaser.Kestrel's comment highly. I'm a Vorthos player at heart and he hit the nail on the head for her. <3

The only thing I want to add to it, though, is her -3 in comparison to humans with power 4 or greater. Magic isn't 100% flavor-accurate, especially in some older cards, so I tend to think about things in terms of "In general." For example, in general Human creatures with power 4 or greater fall in to three categories:

Legendary creatures: Vela, Mishra, Lavinia, Kaervek, Commander Greven, Iwamori, and Anthousa for example.

Groups of creatures: This includes multiple humans such as Meleria's Keepers, Thraben Militia, and Okina Nightwatch OR mounted creatures such as Lightwielder Paladin, Sun Quan, and Sky Hussar.

And Red creatures that care more about killing you than surviving: Such as Keldon Halberdier, Kamahl, and Eron.

Legendary creatures make sense, as they are exemplary creatures or possibly bolstered by magic. They make sense. Mobs make sense as well, as they have the strength of multiple humans to get past 4+ power. And when a creature puts all of its might into simply murdering you, consequences be damned, it's no surprise he can suddenly go from killing another human to killing a monster (Even if it is suicide.)

In set, there is only one creature that is Human and dies outright to her board clear ability: Anthousa. What, flavor-wise, is her -3 supposed to do? Kill monsters, of course. She's the champion of the meek. Well, as we know from history, the difference between a hero and a villain (or, to the meek, a monster) is which side you fight for. To Elspeth, anyone who isn't meek could just as easily take advantage of them, and are destroyed just the same. Her ultimate bolsters the meek, but in keeping with her theme, is not limitless power. She lets them defend themselves, or escape (flying), but she doesn't grant them enough to give them the power to become villains themselves.

Outside of her set, she puts and end to rebellions (mobs), kills those who use beasts to gain an advantage (mounted creatures), destroys the creatures so obsessed with killing they've forgotten how to care for themselves (6/1's and the like), and anyone who is legendary, lest they abuse their powers and become monsters themselves. It is to White to kill in "fairness": Everyone will be judged.

For flavor alone, from me, 5/5. I'm a Vorthos player first, and flavor is the most important thing to me. <3

Way to slow for the type of deck she is meant to be in and none of her effects are that great compared to her other forms.

She's good, but not THAT good. Sure, I won every game at the pre-release whenever I could get her out. But by the end of the day I traded her off for an Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver. Why? Because Ashiok is awesome, and Elspeth is incredibly expensive. Every game at the pre-release that I got her out, it was only because I had enough mana, and I was winning anyway. Most games I had her in my hand and she did nothing but take up space, becasue she's so expensive mana wise.

"Sigh. I've now seen my favorite planeswalker go from godly, to average, to downright unplayable."

You have obviously not had the pleasure of playing against her. She is a monster if she hits the board and you don't have a sweeper in hand or Jace, Architect of Thought out to ignore the damage from the tokens until she ultimates and swings for 27 with her flying soldier tokens if you couldn't kill any of them.

"Way to slow for the type of deck she is meant to be in and none of her effects are that great compared to her other forms."

She is meant to be played in control, not a white weenie deck. If you do not have an answer for her, she will dominate the board in just a few turns. She fits perfectly into UW Control's curve. They cast Elspeth on turn six, then Aetherling on turn seven to leave one mana open to blink him in case of removal.

We will see a lot of her in Standard. She isn't an overhyped card; She really is that good.

Miley Cyrus, Sun's Champion

It'd be nice if she distributed double strike instead of (or along with) flying. Double strike would work great with the whole 'low power' thing. That said, unless your opponent has a ton of fliers or just wiped your soldiers, you're gonna win immediately if you use her -7 anyway.

@kei314...elspeth twerking is hot.

found this mythic hiding amongst my commons and uncommons when I broke open my box. was happy to get one, give me 1 more reason to bring back a token EDH deck.

An absolutely amazing finisher for a control deck. Protects itself, hard to remove, disrupts the opponent, and wins the game by itself. I'll be playing her in modern

Stormbreath Dragon? Psh.

Just got two in my first fat pack woot.

I like the fact that she can even slay the biggest creature of them all.

-3 destroys Blood Baron of Vizkopa as it doesn't target.

Best planeswalker I ever had.
She is a game changer, it doesn't matter how desperate the situation is. As long as she isn't threatened by pithing needle, glare of heresy or detention sphere and the like, she'll pobably win the game for you.

Was very lucky to open her in a booster back after winning a sealed tournament.

I really like her as a finisher in a boros midrange deck. Boros Reockoner wont be killed by her board wipe , then with the red "haste hammer" (cant remember the name), you have 3 tokens with haste every turn.

The point is... at 6 mana, this is a very safe investment on the top of your curve. Take out those pesky big flyers or hexproof creatures with auras, save your smaller creatures. 2 copies in a constructed deck seems about right.

Main weakness: low power evasion creatures... but THANKFULLY lingering souls has rotated out of standard. So this is much less of an issue now.

I think design wise there is a slight flaw: Her ultimate should grant vigilance in addition to flying. This fits with the flavor of white and seriously, ultimates should end games in a ridiculously over powered way.

Regardless... 5/5 stars.

Pulled this in a draft yesterday; it was the card from Theros I wanted most, so I was excited. I put her right into my Bant tokens deck. In the following 4-player game, I got her out turn 6 and everybody turned on me til she was gone. Too bad, because I had Emmara Tandris in my hand....

The point is, she is scary in a token deck, especially alongside Emmara Tandris and Intangible Virtue.

Using her in a red white deck with God of the Forge and Ogre Battledriver. Get 3 3/1 tokens with haste and dealing 6 damage automatically from the God. This set looks very cool.

I love this card so much, while playing with a friend who love his Hydra creature's I used her -3 and watched his face fall! After that I pumped out in three turn's nine 1/1 tokens and got out an intangible virtue out and swept him. Now he just kills her off as quickly as he can.

Hands down my favourite PW of all time. If first ability doesn't save your bass, the second does, and vice versa. She's so good that they had to print Hero's Downfall, even though Dreadbore and Detention Sphere were already in standard.

This card is just way too strong and has too much synergy that makes it even stronger. This was a dumb card for wizards to create.

Her ultimate is pretty boring for a 6-mana walker.

But holy crap does she slam the board with a sledgehammer when she's played. If you can't kill her or the opponent right after she's played you are dead.

Six mana is quite a bit but it's still terrific in casual and standard.

Hoping she becomes Elspeth, Goddess of the Sun when the last set in this block resolves itself.
See Lucent Liminid.

This is probably one of the strongest planeswalkers printed so far. Pick them up while Theros is being drafted heavily.

Guys... I almost feel bad for pointing this out because it is irreversable... but

Elspeth has Justin Biebers face.

Seems like she would be the fighter of the Nightman...

Elspeth is a great game changer because you can get three expendable creatures for blocking each turn and her middle ability is great for wiping all the big nasty creatures so you can dominate the battlefield with your little soldiers.

hmmm, her ultimate is better than Kiora's imo

Kiora gives you a 9/9 every turn, while Elspeth gives you 3 3/3s with flying each turn, along with giving a boost to all your other guys. Printed in the same block too

Really nice syngergy with Teysa, Orzhov Scion from the original Ravnica. Exile target creature each turn for +1? Yes, please.

just need a 5/5 or greater with an Auqueous form.

Elspeth


Fighter of the Reveler

Champion of the sun

She's a master of destruction

and TOKENS

For everyone!

(ah-ah-ah)

Fighter of the Reveler (ah-ah-ah)

Champion of the sun! (ah-ah-ah)

She's a master of destruction

AND TOKENS!

For everyone!

I hate all planeswalkers, but I must say that the artwork on some bridge in Meletis is quite beautiful. Since she costs 6 CMC, I can't hate her as much as most planeswalkers, because you can't simply drop her and hope for the best, since she can be denied with pithing needle, counterspells, unblockable creatures, flyers, and so on.

Sure, she is a win condition in Esper control, but most of her power comes from people not expecting her, which encourages more careful play vs players with white manabase.

Guys, why downvote Boroski?
As much as I hate it, he is right.

http://s177.photobucket.com/user/AA_DarkStarr/media/justin-bieber-asElspeth.jpg.html
Elspeth Bieber muahahahahaha

Which planeswalker seems to see more hand to hand combat, Elspeth or Gideon? And which can actually attack?

Elspeth is dead now, Heliod killed her.

In a control mirror, I have seen her chump block my Kiora, the Crashing Wave ultimate without even breaking a sweat, and then popping her own ultimate and annihilating with the 3/3 flying swarm.

someone once beat me with her and whip of erebos in a white/ black/red deck. I played a whine black life gain deck with sanguine bond. I got it and fiendslayer paladin on the battlefield. he played rakdos' return on me and when i was at about 10 life, somehow cast it from his graveyard and beat me.
why you hate this awesome planeswalker!?


edit: i was new when i wrote that comment and didn't realize people had multiple copies of mythics

I refuse to believe Elspeth is dead. Something will happen blocks from now.........I hope.

Damn. She's dead. Such a great storyline, tipping my hat to Wizards for the fantastic plot of Theros. Way better than RtR. I have the feeling that we will return to this plane sometime in the future and that Elspeth isn't gone forever. Maybe she'll be a W/B plansewalker, Erebos's champion perhaps. Hopefully Heliod, that jerk, gets his ass kicked some day. One of my favourite blocks, flavour wise.

"Hey, I'm winning!"
*Elspeth*
"Hey, I've lost!"

I'm really sick of this happening.