Always wanted to break this card, but could never quite figure it out...
ArturoB616
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(3 votes)
This card is actually a fun combo card. And to help TreeTrunkMaster find a way to break this card, well you could always flickerform it or use it as part of an infinite loop combo with a take on an astral slide deck. If my knowledge of how things work, during your end step you can stack the astral slide triggers in a way that will remove it from play by cycling a card and removing it from play thus triggering the second ability to take another turn.
TreeTrunkMaster
★★★☆☆ (3.7/5.0)(3 votes)
To break it you would need to have it come into play under your opponent's control some how and then take control of it. Then they would be skipping their next turn. If you wanted the extra turn you would just have to make it leave play under your control, either destroy, exile, or return to hand. Donate wouldn't work because it would still come into play under your control initially making you lose the turn, hmmm...
Works like this: Say you have 7 islands, the Mistmeadow Witch and The Vesuvan Dopenganger in play, and Wormfang Manta in your hand. You play the Manta and end your turn. They take 2 turns. then, at the beginning of your upkeep, you make the Doppelganger copy the Manta. You remove Doppelganger With the Witch, giving you an extra turn. When it comes back, it's a doppelganger, not a manta any more, and you can use target and copy the witch to avoid losing a turn. then on your extra turn, change the doppelganger back to the manta. rinse and repeat.
There are definitely better infinite combos in the game than this one in terms of mana cost, utility of underlying pieces, and winning on the turn you get the combo instead of after an opponent's double turn, so this combo doesn't exactly make this card playable in any competitive format, but it might be a fun surprise for your friends in casual play.
jollypup404
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
i thought that an unblocked Galepowder Mage with Wormfang Manta in play means infinite turns but that is wrong.
i think it works with Shapesharer. then you acn either crystal sshard it or give it vanishing or whatever after making it copy the manta.
Kryptnyt
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I guess with Dimir Doppleganger you don't skip your turn.
You're all working so hard to break this when a simple Stifle will do.
Vedalken_Arbiter
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.8/5.0)(2 votes)
You know if you you bring it into play and sac on the same turn, and there are a number of cheap ways to do that, then you move your next turn up to right after your current turn.
exterion
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Metalevolence & treetrunk: Endless whispers is only half the fun unless you have some way to continuously take back control (a'la Dominus of Fealty, which greatly risks your opponent taking control of your combo with a single removal). Add Confusion in the Ranks, some cheap token generator and a non-creature saccing engine (Ashnod's Altar).
SpencerDub
★★★★☆ (4.6/5.0)(5 votes)
Nightmare Fish Beast? Possibly the best creature type line ever.
Diabloboy
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Splinter Twin. Lose 1 turn but then infinite turns for just tapping this guy. Just drop the 1st one when u can survive a turn and keep him alive until u can tap him. Once the token leaves play u get another turn before they get theres. AWESOME
SteveFromAccounting
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
How would this interact with the spell Flash? What I'm thinking is that it would go like this:
Turn rotation before card enters play:
player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 1 turn, player 2 turn
card enters play
player 1 loses next turn
player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 2 turn
Card leaves play Player 1 takes extra turn after this one.
player 1 turn, player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 2 turn
Is this correct?
NARFNra
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Other than stifle, can't you pseudomorph it out with Illusionary Mask? Then you could sac it to something.
scumbling1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The ability is pretty terrible, as there are several more efficient ways to skip your next turn (should you really want to). Chronatog, Lethal Vapors, Magosi, the Waterviel and Meditate all come to mind. Of course, skipping your next turn is only abusable in the most narrow of contexts.
Considering the triggered ability is garbage, it's hard to look at a 6/1 for seven and see it as a reasonable deal. Were the designers of this card wanting to make it susceptible to pings from the blue player's own Prodigal Sorcerers? Or make the opponent have to consider taking six and NOT blocking it, to avoid giving the Manta's controller the extra turn?
Torpor Orb, Mimic Vat, This = You're welcome to all the previous people trying to break this.
aznxknightz
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
1 word: Phasing.
OmegaSerris
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(6 votes)
luca_barelli dies to spell check.
@aznxknightz If you read the rules on phasing, you'd see that phasing doesn't trigger ETB or LTB effects. More or less, you just pretend it isn't there when phased out, like a super-shroud. Now Turn to Mist... would get you nothing (see the next response.)
@SteveFromAccounting I'm pretty sure you would succeed at doing nothing. See Magosi, the Waterveil's rulings:
If you somehow activate Magosi's third and fourth abilities during the same turn, the effects will cancel each other out. The turn you skip is the next one you would take, which is the turn created by Magosi's fourth ability. It doesn't matter in which order the abilities resolved.
Now if you could some how Stifle his first abilily, then Unsummon him, you'd get your extra turn. Or you could just play Time Warp for less mana and 2 less cards or the broken Time Walk for even less, excluding your flash shenanigans.
I love how they Oracle'd this to a Fish. I cracked up when I saw "Nightmare Fish Beast". Fish kind of takes the fear out of that phrase. X-D
Typeline of Nightmare Fish Beast. My day has been made.
Atali
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Definitely the most tragic loss to the change of the Phasing rules.
Once upon a time, phasing didn't trigger ETB effects, but did trigger LTB effects. Alas, Wizards noticed that this made no sense and arbitrarily hideously broke a very small number of cards.
Torpor Orb's only other benefits are 1) it's free after casting, and 2) in can hinder your opponent if needed.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Stifle "Combo" is pretty bad. 8 mana and two cards for a 5/5 flyer. You can get so much more for 2 card 8 mana combo.
Torpor orb seems okay. Get a 5/5 flyer and negate the drawback. Yes its a 2 card combo but torpor orb works with many other things, so you are not wasting a card for this like with stifle.
The infinity turn combos of course threaten to win the game.
Comments (33)
Donate wouldn't work because it would still come into play under your control initially making you lose the turn, hmmm...
Works like this: Say you have 7 islands, the Mistmeadow Witch and The Vesuvan Dopenganger in play, and Wormfang Manta in your hand. You play the Manta and end your turn. They take 2 turns. then, at the beginning of your upkeep, you make the Doppelganger copy the Manta. You remove Doppelganger With the Witch, giving you an extra turn. When it comes back, it's a doppelganger, not a manta any more, and you can use target and copy the witch to avoid losing a turn. then on your extra turn, change the doppelganger back to the manta. rinse and repeat.
There are definitely better infinite combos in the game than this one in terms of mana cost, utility of underlying pieces, and winning on the turn you get the combo instead of after an opponent's double turn, so this combo doesn't exactly make this card playable in any competitive format, but it might be a fun surprise for your friends in casual play.
i think it works with Shapesharer. then you acn either crystal sshard it or give it vanishing or whatever after making it copy the manta.
Turn rotation before card enters play:
player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 1 turn, player 2 turn
card enters play
player 1 loses next turn
player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 2 turn
Card leaves play
Player 1 takes extra turn after this one.
player 1 turn, player 1 turn, player 2 turn, player 2 turn
Is this correct?
Considering the triggered ability is garbage, it's hard to look at a 6/1 for seven and see it as a reasonable deal. Were the designers of this card wanting to make it susceptible to pings from the blue player's own Prodigal Sorcerers? Or make the opponent have to consider taking six and NOT blocking it, to avoid giving the Manta's controller the extra turn?
These are the questions of our times.
@aznxknightz
If you read the rules on phasing, you'd see that phasing doesn't trigger ETB or LTB effects. More or less, you just pretend it isn't there when phased out, like a super-shroud. Now Turn to Mist... would get you nothing (see the next response.)
@SteveFromAccounting
I'm pretty sure you would succeed at doing nothing. See Magosi, the Waterveil's rulings:
If you somehow activate Magosi's third and fourth abilities during the same turn, the effects will cancel each other out. The turn you skip is the next one you would take, which is the turn created by Magosi's fourth ability. It doesn't matter in which order the abilities resolved.
Now if you could some how Stifle his first abilily, then Unsummon him, you'd get your extra turn. Or you could just play Time Warp for
I love how they Oracle'd this to a Fish. I cracked up when I saw "Nightmare Fish Beast". Fish kind of takes the fear out of that phrase. X-D
ARRGH NOT SPEL-CHECK!
Once upon a time, phasing didn't trigger ETB effects, but did trigger LTB effects. Alas, Wizards noticed that this made no sense and arbitrarily hideously broke a very small number of cards.
Cryptoplasm+Conjurer's Closet .
Lose one turn when it enters play... but gain 2 (by doubling it with Strionic Resonator every time it leaves play.
So, combine that with Venser, the Sojourner, or Mimic Vat, or Deadeye Navigator.... etc, and you have unlimited turns.
I think I may like Strionic Resonator even more that Torpor Orb for this, because Torpor Orb usually hurts you when you are playing a 'Flicker' deck, while Strionic Resonator will usually benefit you in many ways.
Torpor Orb's only other benefits are 1) it's free after casting, and 2) in can hinder your opponent if needed.
Torpor orb seems okay. Get a 5/5 flyer and negate the drawback. Yes its a 2 card combo but torpor orb works with many other things, so you are not wasting a card for this like with stifle.
The infinity turn combos of course threaten to win the game.
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I feel if this were printed today it wouldnt have the drawback, or it would be cheaper.