4 CC is great for this very versitile card. I love having this card in a discard deck. Instant Hymn to Tourach and Mind Twist is incredibly evil! You can even get a first turn Vedalkin Orrery if you have a draw with an Orrery, a Swamp, a Dark Ritual and a Sol Ring.
Fictionarious
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(4 votes)
Will this allow transmute cards to be transmuted whenever an instant could be played?
DrPompousMD
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I think it works best in a counterspell deck. With an Orrery in play, I never play cards during my turn, only during theirs. This way I've always got mana spare for counters, and if they don't play anything worth countering I can play my creatures at the end of their turn.
On another note its fun to have Isochron Scepter + cmc <2 discard instant or sorcerry such as Hymn to Tourach and maybe a Vedalken Orrery + perhaps something like Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that way you can lock them out of their draw (by using Isochron Scepter's Hymn to Tourach at the end of your opponent's draw step) completely if all previously made cards are still unhampered with. For Multiplayer Seedborn Muse or something like it would help to lock out all others besides yourself or yourself too if you want.
"Will this allow transmute cards to be transmuted whenever an instant could be played? " Posted By: DrPompousMD (12/2/2009 8:03:39 AM) http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=50134
No, since your aren't casting cards with transmute (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+). In that sense you aren't casting a spell when you cycle it (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+). So neither can be countered by this that say something like "counter target spell", but what happens to the right of the colon (the ability) goes on the stack. Stifle I believe would stop a card from cycling or transmuting.
PEVE_O
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
I would like to explore ways to get around its nonland card restrictions.
ivorythunder
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
@dudecow:
You would not be able to play planeswalkers' abilities during your opponent's turn. While you can play their abilities at any time you could play a sorcery, they are not sorceries (merely abilities with a timing restriction placed on them); Vedalken Orrery only applies to actual spells, not abilities.
klauth
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(6 votes)
@originalcardtext: Hymn to Tourach won't work with isochron scepter since it says it needs an instant card to be imprinted, also to be specific cycling is an activated ability
The only thing I can see how this is useful is instant speed discard and your sorcery removals to be used as spot removals ie. Flame Slash. Other than that Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is better (although he's blue and the orrery is an artifact, makes his use a little bitmore limited).
Tommy9898
★★★★☆ (4.3/5.0)(7 votes)
Vedalken Orly?
hid@n
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
SO BOSS
A3Kitsune
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Returns in Magic 2011... sort of. New 2011 card Leyline of Anticipation is this exept it's an enchantment, not an artifact, blue, not colorless, and has the Guildpact Leyline ability.
Mode
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I think this card is currently somewhat overrated.
Yeah, it is a buffed version of Vernal Equinox.
Of course, this allows you some combat tricks and a bunch of Sorceries and Creatures that are not meant to be cast in your opponent's turn allow some interesting combos.
But four mana is still a lot for this.
However, Leyline of Anticipation - despite the fact that it has the same converted mana cost - appears to be a nice alternative to this card when playing blue - especially as with all Leylines, it will allow you to play it for free if it's in your opening hand. Sounds far more appealing than being forced to spend turn four to play it.
dudecow
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this let you go crazy with planeswalkers? The official rules says that you can play their abilities any time you could play a sorcery, and only if you haven't played any of it's abilities that turn. Since the Orrery lets you play sorceries during your opponents turn, can't you play planeswalkers abilities during yours and your opponent's turn? Edit: Wow, I'm an idiot. I got it completely wrong.
MasterOfEtherium
★☆☆☆☆ (1.6/5.0)(5 votes)
Razor Boomerang AnyBody Lol Just Kidding
DeathDark
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@PEVE_O
You can't play lands on your opponent's turn, meaning explore wouldn't help. Rampant Growth would.
@Tommy9898
Vedalken Yarly
rinoh20
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
EMRAKUL AMBUSH
Shiny_Espeon
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I was never a fan of Leyline of Anticipation, and this card doesn't seem any better. I guess this is colorless, but you always have to pay 4 mana for it, so it doesn't seem very useful.
To all those people out there talking about instant speed hymns and mind twists, that seems quite unnecessary. Hymn and Mind twist are already backbreaking to begin with, (Mind twist is even banned in every competitive format other then vintage, which has far more broken things going on) so the idea of making it instant speed seems redundant, especially since you should have cast them before you reached the 4 mana needed to cast this. By turn 5, your opponent will have already hit most of their land drops and you don't have as high of a chance of screwing them over with the random discard. Hymn to Toarch is just a 1 mana less Mind Rot when they have 2 cards in hand. You want to cast Hymn as soon as possible so you have a chance of land screwing them, so the idea of waiting to play it at instant speed, (as well as needing to cast this at instant speed) seems silly. And also, that comment about the turn one orrery using broken cards like Sol Ring is the second stupidest comment I've ever read on card comments. (I've seen some bad ones, too) Why play a turn one orrery when, with that start, you could Mind Twist for 5 on turn 2? If they were on the play and had a 1 or 2 drop, you just discarded their whole hand.
Moving on to stuff that isn't giving broken, unfun cards things they don't need, this card doesn't really work well in a blue control deck either. The idea of never having to tap out seems powerful, (after all, there was a powerful standard Faeries deck that dominated Standard because it didn't have to tap out) but the problem is that this card isn't even good in that situation as well. With smart playing, you should only be tapping out when you are doing something powerful like playing some powerful creature that will likely win you the game. This card doesn't really work well in control decks because you, ironically, have to tap out for this, and which would you rather tap out for: This card, (which, might I remind you, does absolutely nothing to help improve your actual board position,) or a Hero of Bladehold? I'd rather have the Hero. The problem is that you're using a card and tapping out for something that doesn't actually stop your opponent from killing you and actually leaves you vulnerable the turn you cast it. As someone said before, if you don't like the idea of having to tap out for creatures in your blue control deck, then run Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. He's an actual creature, can be played at instant speed, and actually hurts your opponent.
kiseki
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Braid of fire likes this guy. The mercadian masques predecessor, vernal equinox, runs at about 1/10 the price by the way.
Sharu
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card is great.
I run it in my red X spell burn deck. Few things are as much of a "screw you" than instantaneous rolling thunders iinto weenie rushes. Because, personal, I think that is the ture strength of this card. Making decnet and underpowered sorcery removal much better.
And also, overrun after blockers are declared before damage is too funny to ignore (unless you're on the recieving end...).
I don't know about this card, but Leyline of Anticipation is absolutely amazing in my Arcanis EDH deck. And if I had the room I'd probably run this too, because this seems pretty much just as good.
leomistico
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Shiny_Espeon : I think you didn't understand this card.
The interaction with Hymn to Tourach is intended for cast it during the draw step, so the opponent can't play it, if it isn't an instant. Yes, I have to cast my Hymns as soon as possible, but after I've done it, and my opponent doesn't have an hand anymore, casting my hymns during his/her draw phase becomes a lot more useful. I agree with you on the part about Sol Ring...
I somehow agree about the uselessness in a control deck, because the player can do everything without this card, if the player builds the deck and plays it knowing what he's doing... However, this can makes the play more fast, because he can tap out without having the additional lands for a counterspell. Let me explain a little better: without this, I have to wait until I have X lands for my threat, and other 2-3 lands for a counterspell to protect my threat. With this, I have only to wait until I have X lands, because I can cast my threat during the opponent's end step. I know, it's a little noob-ish, but why not...?
I use the Orrery in my EDH Izzet deck. I play Spellweaver Volute too, and this one can let me cast even the counterspells with the Helix!
It's not for aggro decks, it's for control/combo decks, for enabling some obsure interaction, like with Worldfire, hymn, and my Spellweaver Volute "combo"...
This card is so amazing in my Omnath EDH deck. Whnever Omnath dies, I can bring him back with the mana he was keeping. Also, there is a bonus that I can play all my other nońand cards as instants, which is aleays cool with Omnath because of the GIGANTIC amount of mana he keeps (the max I ever had was INFINITE with some comboes).
LegionOfNight
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card is nuts, and breaks all the timing rules. In response, obliterate with a fatty on the stack. In response Wrath of God, Furnace of Rath, Darksteel forge, Avacyn DURING combat All your creatures gain haste essentially. Awesome, broken, one of my favorite cards.
Comments (29)
I like the idea of instant discard :).
On another note its fun to have Isochron Scepter + cmc <2 discard instant or sorcerry such as Hymn to Tourach and maybe a Vedalken Orrery + perhaps something like Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir that way you can lock them out of their draw (by using Isochron Scepter's Hymn to Tourach at the end of your opponent's draw step) completely if all previously made cards are still unhampered with. For Multiplayer Seedborn Muse or something like it would help to lock out all others besides yourself or yourself too if you want.
"Will this allow transmute cards to be transmuted whenever an instant could be played? " Posted By: DrPompousMD (12/2/2009 8:03:39 AM) http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Discussion.aspx?multiverseid=50134
No, since your aren't casting cards with transmute (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+). In that sense you aren't casting a spell when you cycle it (http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?text=+). So neither can be countered by this that say something like "counter target spell", but what happens to the right of the colon (the ability) goes on the stack. Stifle I believe would stop a card from cycling or transmuting.
You would not be able to play planeswalkers' abilities during your opponent's turn. While you can play their abilities at any time you could play a sorcery, they are not sorceries (merely abilities with a timing restriction placed on them); Vedalken Orrery only applies to actual spells, not abilities.
The only thing I can see how this is useful is instant speed discard and your sorcery removals to be used as spot removals ie. Flame Slash. Other than that Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is better (although he's blue and the orrery is an artifact, makes his use a little bitmore limited).
Yeah, it is a buffed version of Vernal Equinox.
Of course, this allows you some combat tricks and a bunch of Sorceries and Creatures that are not meant to be cast in your opponent's turn allow some interesting combos.
But four mana is still a lot for this.
However, Leyline of Anticipation - despite the fact that it has the same converted mana cost - appears to be a nice alternative to this card when playing blue - especially as with all Leylines, it will allow you to play it for free if it's in your opening hand. Sounds far more appealing than being forced to spend turn four to play it.
Edit: Wow, I'm an idiot. I got it completely wrong.
You can't play lands on your opponent's turn, meaning explore wouldn't help. Rampant Growth would.
@Tommy9898
Vedalken Yarly
To all those people out there talking about instant speed hymns and mind twists, that seems quite unnecessary. Hymn and Mind twist are already backbreaking to begin with, (Mind twist is even banned in every competitive format other then vintage, which has far more broken things going on) so the idea of making it instant speed seems redundant, especially since you should have cast them before you reached the 4 mana needed to cast this. By turn 5, your opponent will have already hit most of their land drops and you don't have as high of a chance of screwing them over with the random discard. Hymn to Toarch is just a 1 mana less Mind Rot when they have 2 cards in hand. You want to cast Hymn as soon as possible so you have a chance of land screwing them, so the idea of waiting to play it at instant speed, (as well as needing to cast this at instant speed) seems silly. And also, that comment about the turn one orrery using broken cards like Sol Ring is the second stupidest comment I've ever read on card comments. (I've seen some bad ones, too) Why play a turn one orrery when, with that start, you could Mind Twist for 5 on turn 2? If they were on the play and had a 1 or 2 drop, you just discarded their whole hand.
Moving on to stuff that isn't giving broken, unfun cards things they don't need, this card doesn't really work well in a blue control deck either. The idea of never having to tap out seems powerful, (after all, there was a powerful standard Faeries deck that dominated Standard because it didn't have to tap out) but the problem is that this card isn't even good in that situation as well. With smart playing, you should only be tapping out when you are doing something powerful like playing some powerful creature that will likely win you the game. This card doesn't really work well in control decks because you, ironically, have to tap out for this, and which would you rather tap out for: This card, (which, might I remind you, does absolutely nothing to help improve your actual board position,) or a Hero of Bladehold? I'd rather have the Hero. The problem is that you're using a card and tapping out for something that doesn't actually stop your opponent from killing you and actually leaves you vulnerable the turn you cast it. As someone said before, if you don't like the idea of having to tap out for creatures in your blue control deck, then run Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir. He's an actual creature, can be played at instant speed, and actually hurts your opponent.
I run it in my red X spell burn deck.
Few things are as much of a "screw you" than instantaneous rolling thunders iinto weenie rushes.
Because, personal, I think that is the ture strength of this card. Making decnet and underpowered sorcery removal much better.
And also, overrun after blockers are declared before damage is too funny to ignore (unless you're on the recieving end...).
5/5
Swamp, Ornithopter, Culling the weak, This.
4.5/5
Use with Hellcarver Demon and Doomsday for a 99% guaranteed insta-win.
I think you didn't understand this card.
The interaction with Hymn to Tourach is intended for cast it during the draw step, so the opponent can't play it, if it isn't an instant. Yes, I have to cast my Hymns as soon as possible, but after I've done it, and my opponent doesn't have an hand anymore, casting my hymns during his/her draw phase becomes a lot more useful. I agree with you on the part about Sol Ring...
I somehow agree about the uselessness in a control deck, because the player can do everything without this card, if the player builds the deck and plays it knowing what he's doing... However, this can makes the play more fast, because he can tap out without having the additional lands for a counterspell. Let me explain a little better: without this, I have to wait until I have X lands for my threat, and other 2-3 lands for a counterspell to protect my threat. With this, I have only to wait until I have X lands, because I can cast my threat during the opponent's end step. I know, it's a little noob-ish, but why not...?
I use the Orrery in my EDH Izzet deck. I play Spellweaver Volute too, and this one can let me cast even the counterspells with the Helix!
It's not for aggro decks, it's for control/combo decks, for enabling some obsure interaction, like with Worldfire, hymn, and my Spellweaver Volute "combo"...
4.5/5
In response, obliterate with a fatty on the stack.
In response Wrath of God, Furnace of Rath, Darksteel forge, Avacyn DURING combat
All your creatures gain haste essentially.
Awesome, broken, one of my favorite cards.