Actually, it still works. Cuz Hunted Dragon is making the tokens, and you control Hunted Dragon, so you control the source that made the tokens, which means you have token ownership. It's like doing a Persuasion on a Verdant Force. You OWN the saprolings.
Arachibutyrophobia it doesn't work like that anymore. Who gets the token owns the token. Therefore Brooding Saurian's effect is useless as well.
Tanaka348
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Not to mention Brooding Saurian says "nontoken" anyway, specifically to avoid these shenanigans before the M10 rules.
demigodofrevenge
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
Ugh, trying to exploit the rules of token generation aside, the card definitely has potential considering the Red is also the home of board-sweeping effects like Pyroclasm and Volcanic Fallout. Get in six damage immediately, then next turn simply undo the advantage it gave your opponent for a mere 2 mana, as well as wiping away any other bears he might have, and swing again.
NeoSin
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Demigod knows whats up.
Exart
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
110.5a A token is both owned and controlled by the player under whose control it entered the battlefield.
@achilleselbow: It makes no difference at all that it's worded that way. The tokens are still entering the battlefield under the opponent's control and thus are owned by that opponent. It doesn't matter at all who puts them into play, just under whose control they enter.
That aside this card is awesome in an offensive red deck. Ritual him out on turn 2, swing, turn 3 volcanic fallout and swing again and your opponent will be down to 6 even if you did nothing on turn 1. The downside, of course, is that after you cast this they spot removal it, attack you for 6 and you still need to spend that effort to get rid of the tokens your opponent essentially got for free with a Doomblade.
achilleselbow
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
You definitely DO own the tokens. Look at the wording: PUT the tokens into play UNDER TARGET OPPONENT'S CONTROL. "Put" is in the imperative mood, so the implied subject of the sentence is "You". So YOU put the tokens into play, which is why it has to specify that they're under an opponent's control. Otherwise it would say "target opponent puts three 2/2 knight tokens into play". See the difference?
Edit: yea, I've since checked the rules, and I saw that. I think that was a recent change though, during Ravnica I would've been correct.
You used to own the tokens M10 rules changed it so now your opponent owns them. Still, this card is great. Red can bring this down real quick to smash 6 points of flying damages, and if you're playing Red/Blue, Leyline of Singularity erases the drawback quite easily. It works for Hunted Phantasm as well, giving you a 3cmc unblockable fattie without pesky goblins after it.
raptorjesus69
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
Pyroclasm or Volcanic Fallout. For the most part I really like the "hunted series," Hunted Dragon being no exception.
Pwnsaw
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I think I would generally prefer hellkite charger to satisfy my hasty dragon needs. Of course there are times when giving the tokens is useful, but I think the chargers utility is better than the tokens.
Stray_Dog
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Wacky!
DacenOctavio
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
The rest of the hunted cycle was actually able to be killed by the tokens they made. What gives? I mean, I like the dragons and all, but I don't get how this thing is even balanced.
Anubisisking
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Hunted Dragon is awesome... the knights are bad news... but the dragon eats them for breakfast, and if your playing red, you should be able to either kill off the knights, or just burn out your opponent with this and burn spells before the knights start to matter.
I need to get three of these guys.
Ideatog
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Even though the silly Brand combo no longer works, red also happens to be the home of Insurrection, Act of Treason, Grab the Reins, and Mark of Mutiny. All you need is a good sacrifice outlet to dispose of your stolen knights while beating face with the dragon.
Demonic_Math_Tutor
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Im so bummed that they didnt print this in Knights Vs. Dragons... It would have been so flavorful... Not like im actually going to buy K Vs. D
ParadOxymoron
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(8 votes)
Why wasn't this in Knights vs. Dragons?
Nutmeg_alpha
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Very cool card, but I have a slight flavor nitpick. In Ravnica, Niv-Mizzet was said to have killed all of the other dragons on the plain, or at least the majority of them. What is this dragon doing there? Did Niv miss a spot?
Equinox523
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Sure you can roast the knights, but remember that little word: Haste. Your opponent may be dead before they get to use those knights, if you play this right. This is also a nice substitute in a Dragonstorm deck if you don't have Bogardan Hellkite - 4 Hunted Dragons = 24 damage in the air unless they have an answer.
I can't help but feel this should have been an auto-include in the Knights vs Dragons precon.
Sure, giving the opponent Knights that will surely benefit him is a little upsetting,
But c'mon, the flavour is BEGGING for it. ):
pedrodyl
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
group hug EDH!
Totema
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
"Uncle Niv, the knights are picking on me aga~ain!"
I love Pyroclasm immediately after this. Dash your opponent's hopes!
Kryptnyt
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You can also crack a Ratchet Bomb to get rid of these tokens. But there's nothing wrong with ignoring them completely. Haste is pretty damn good.
nunzioni
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Really outclassed by Thundermaw Hellkite. Same mana cost, one less P/T, but you get a good, relevant ETB ability instead of a huge drawback. Also, why are barely any hunteds balanced. It always seems like they are getting almost as much as you are, even though you are the one paying the mana and using the card. I like the idea, but they should lessen the drawback.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
6 damage for should be enough to finish. Then again just run ball lightning.
Pick15
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@DacenOctavio: Hunted Lammasu has flying, is a 5/5 and makes a 4/4. Hunted Horror makes two 3/3s with pro black, but it's a 7/7 trample. The idea is that the hunted creature can still get past whatever is hunting it, as the Hunted Phantasm, a 4/6, is unblockable and the Hunted Troll, an 8/4, can regenerate if the four Faeries would block it. In this case, the Dragon has flying and haste so it easily gets past the Knights, but they hit back just as hard.
OmegaFree
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Every "Hunted" creature can now become incredibly broken with Redirect
mtgraptor
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
if you ever get this played against you, blink it as much as possible
mdakw576
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
the tokens almost never mattered unless you were behind on the race, but you just got a 6/6 flying haste beatstick so it's hard to lose at that point.
red decks can easily smash the opponents down to 6 or less life and then have this finish the job. who cares if they get stuff if they're dead?
Mode
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The advantage of this cycle of hunted creatures is that you put the tokens for your opponent into play, making them quite useful with Brand.
Edit (since 2/27/2009): Well, at least that was the case when I posted this comment. The rules changed since then, and the owner of a token is the controller of the token when it entered the battlefield. It used to be a fun casual combo, though. Would be damn powerful these days with Homeward Path if the rules still were that way. But admittedly, taking those tokens always felt a bit like cheating.
Comments (33)
I prefer Brooding Saurian to Brand.
@achilleselbow: It makes no difference at all that it's worded that way. The tokens are still entering the battlefield under the opponent's control and thus are owned by that opponent. It doesn't matter at all who puts them into play, just under whose control they enter.
That aside this card is awesome in an offensive red deck. Ritual him out on turn 2, swing, turn 3 volcanic fallout and swing again and your opponent will be down to 6 even if you did nothing on turn 1.
The downside, of course, is that after you cast this they spot removal it, attack you for 6 and you still need to spend that effort to get rid of the tokens your opponent essentially got for free with a Doomblade.
Edit: yea, I've since checked the rules, and I saw that. I think that was a recent change though, during Ravnica I would've been correct.
I suppose you could always just run it with Hammerfist Giant.
I need to get three of these guys.
And the next turn you cast Pyroclasm
Sure, giving the opponent Knights that will surely benefit him is a little upsetting,
But c'mon, the flavour is BEGGING for it. ):
I love Pyroclasm immediately after this. Dash your opponent's hopes!
Then again just run ball lightning.
red decks can easily smash the opponents down to 6 or less life and then have this finish the job. who cares if they get stuff if they're dead?
Edit (since 2/27/2009):
Well, at least that was the case when I posted this comment. The rules changed since then, and the owner of a token is the controller of the token when it entered the battlefield. It used to be a fun casual combo, though. Would be damn powerful these days with Homeward Path if the rules still were that way.
But admittedly, taking those tokens always felt a bit like cheating.