some way to use it:
Auriok Salvagers+Pyrite Spellbomb. You make infite white mana by sacrifying LED and putting it back in play with auriok. Once you said that you have 56465342 white manas, go On for 6541654 red mana and puch your opponents with infite spellbombs.No worries with manaburn as you win within the phase(and that manaburn is disappearing in one month,but whatever)
-Lion's eye diamond+Breaktrough+Golgari Grave-Troll+land. This is a turn one free win in a well known and hated legacy deck called ichorid,that allows you to mill youself from 24cards at best.
Putting your land on the board.putting your LED on the board. Playing Breakthrough, sacrifying LED in response without giving priority to the opponent before everything is stacked. your whole hand in discarded and you may dredge on each of the four draw you have to make.
-Lion's eye diamond +infernal tutor; you have the LED in play,then you play infernal tutor and sacrifice LED in response like in the previous case.You can now search any SINGLE card of your deck and play it with the mana produced by LED.If you add up Ill-Gotten Gains and a third land, yu may just play it afterwards and redo the move so you can up this turn storm counter significantly. : )
these are the most played use of the card,but i have no doubt there is many others.
This card is extremely popular in Storm decks such as Ad-Naseuam + Tendrils.
You need to use its effect when an ability is on the stack that allows you to draw more cards, such as Ad Naseuam. Then you get the mana and refill your hand.
Swamp; Lion's Eye Diamond; Dark Ritual; Yawg Will. Then crack Diamond...pull it back with Will...use it again. Then reuse your dark ritual. 8 black mana floating turn 1 with a graveyard full of goodies you can play as though they were in your hand. Don't even need reanimator...
CatsAreCthala
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(1 vote)
What's with the Oracle text? The only time I can't play an instant is in split second mode, and why would I need mana there?
Mill_Master
★★★★☆ (4.6/5.0)(5 votes)
One turn Goblin Charbelcher deck. I have done it. Amazing!!!
GainsBanding
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
CatsAreCthala - as it was explained to me, you used to be able to sac LED and have time to use the mana to cast instants before you discarded your hand. With the current oracle text you can't do that. Not sure if this is totally accurate, but I'm sure people will correct me if I'm wrong.
Zher0
★★★★☆ (4.1/5.0)(4 votes)
@ CatsAreCthala & GainsBanding Mana abilities, unlike other activated and triggered abilities, can be activated at a very strange time: during the casting or resolving of a spell (rule 605.3a). Lion's Eye Diamond's ability is a mana ability; however, it has that "instant speed" timing restriction. Without the restriction, you could, for example, cast Rampant Growth and then, while the spell is resolving, cast Panglacial Wurm from your library, using the LED mana. The timing restriction prevents you from doing this because you aren't able to cast an instant while a spell is resolving. Also, without the restriction, you could cast a spell (let's say something broken, like Yawgmoth's Will) by putting it onto the stack and THEN activating the ability of LED. You won't have to discard your spell because it's on the stack and no longer in your hand. (Rule 601.2 may illustrate this further.)
A3Kitsune
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
@CatsAreCthala, GainsBanding & ZherO
I believe the text also stops you from using the mana from LED to pay the madness cost of the cards you discard, as the cost is now fully compleated (ie: the cards are no longer in a state of being discarded and are in your graveyard) by the time you get the mana.
makochman
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
So they wanted to "fix" Black Lotus and made this. Which is uber and super-powerful.
I love how it illustrates a simple point to those who don't get Black Lotus: even when discarding your hand for it, three free mana is still insane.
TPmanW
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Poor, poor Wizards. They thought something like discarding your entire hand would be enough to stop players from abusing a Black Lotus. In their defense though I can totally see myself thinking that back in the day. I mean discarding your hand is a pretty big cost.
Thrull_Champion
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
For the longest time, this card was considered unplayable, and I mean, dollar rare unplayable. Infact it's life as a tournament mainstay is only about as long as Ravnica.
It just goes to show you, you never know what card will be abused next.
GoblinNaysayer93
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I use this in a deck in which I can cycle cards for free by using Fluctuator. The trick is that you put all of the cycling abilities on the stack, sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond (you usually discard nothing), and then after everything resolves you have a new hand and three mana. 5/5
Crag-Hack
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
"Alright team, let's reprint black lotus, but this time we have to make sure that it can only go into combo decks."
"Alright!"
jonb86
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(3 votes)
When this card was first printed and for a good 5 years after it was printed, it was a pretty worthless card that saw little if any play at all. I bought this in an auction for the outrageous price of 50 cents back in 2001; tried hard to fit it into SOME deck but it just never worked. This card only became powerful when key abilities like madness, flashback and other new more accessible ways of playing cards that are not in your hand as well as more powerful activated abilities with mana costs.
Arachibutyrophobia
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
lol, for obvious reasons this is banned in edh
NeoKoda
★★☆☆☆ (2.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Thoctar, can you link to the others in the cycle?
Salient
★★★★☆ (4.9/5.0)(9 votes)
Everything else awesome aside, this is a pretty spectacular way to cast Haakon...
tavaritz
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(1 vote)
You can play it as a response to any spell or ability that gains you cards when resolving.
The fact that the Oracle ruling breaks out of character for this card but not for cards like Chaos Orb and Shahrazad tells you all you need to know about it.
The oracle text is weird and most people eont understand why. If it was a full unrestricted mana ability it would be practically black lotus
Spells are declared and put on the stack, then the player activates mana abilities to pay for it. You can cast a card from your hand then choose to pay with LED if it was unrestricted.
You would also be able to use it in dredge and activate it while dredging to discard dredgers if you have multiple draws stacked.
The instant priority ruling prevents all those shinanegans.
Remember, you cant pay for Join Forces commander cards with LED. You cant pay for mana leak once you declared to pay; must be poped in response to mana leak if you want to do it.
Psychrates
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I hated this card when it first came out, considered it pandering to the masses and devaluing certain cards(like FELDON'S CANE) by reprinting functionally retarded versions of premiere cards.
Believe it or not, this is a benefactor of power creep and changing game mechanics(Hi there, High Tide, drain power). Not useful when it first came out, there were few ways to play from the GY. It ended up being saved by new keywords in different sets and is not way too friggin' expensive when it was worth practically nothing.
Dredge and other tech make this NOW a 5/5, when it was a 3/5 @ printing.
kiseki
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Simplest, and a turn two combo, is to have two lands, a grindstone, a painter's servant and the LED in your opening hand. Turn 1: land, grindstone Turn 2: land, painter's servant, call any color, LED, sacrifice the LED for three mana to activate the grindstone on your opponent's deck. The painter's servant turns their entire deck the chosen color, including the lands, so it will mill the whole thing.
Obviously this can be accelerated to the first turn with other cards, but this is the base case.
Turn 1: Whatever land, this, discarding Unburial Rites and Griselbrand. No wonder Gris got banned. Though even that combo into one of the Avacyn Restored mythic angels (well, aside from Bruna) would be backbreaking.
LordRandomness
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
@kitsunewarlock:
I'm assuming you mean to cast Yawgmoth's Will (using the Ritual mana) then respond to it with the Diamond's activation, yes? (The way it's written could be suggesting letting Will resolve and then cracking the diamond, which doesn't work unfortunately)
Xycolian
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I would use this in my Discard/mill deck if it didn't cost so freaking much.
If I had a worthless hand, I'd tap it, use Jace's Archivist's ability, and cycle my hand.
You could do all of this in reaction to a spell being cast, so even if you're tapped out, you can cycle into a Counterspell and use it.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Funny, playset of these about equal to a cheap diamond.
Technetium
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Nerfed pretty well with rulings, but still an effective card in the right deck. Unlike Lotus, it no longer belongs in every Vintage deck, though.
Callahan09
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
So let me get this straight... I'd have to pay to discard my hand with One with Nothing... or I could get the same effect AND 3 mana, for free? Hmm...
blurrymadness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This may be a stretch, but look at the picture. They tried to make the picture say what it was:
Lion Indian Diamond. Lion's I ('Eye') Diamond.
Maybe not; but why else such a weird picture?
EGarrett01
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It was supposed to be a joke, damn you! This card was supposed to be a joke...
MCcreator
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I get the "Activate only as instant" clause, but that's technically Power Erreta. Was it always intended to be like that because if not then Wizards should return it to being a mana ability with no timing restrictions.
Aquillion
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@MCcreator: The "instant speed" errata isn't a power errata; it's an errata to update the card for modern rules. When this card was printed, mana sources didn't work like that (you couldn't activate them while casting a spell; they were just the 'highest' speed, even faster than interrupts.)
They errataed this card to play as an instant when the rules were changed because that was necessary to make it function the way it had originally been designed. The same is true of Lotus Vale (it was printed before the modern stack, so you couldn't originally tap it in response to its ability triggering and it was fine for it to require the sacrifice after coming into play; but when the modern stack rules came into effect, it became possible to play it, then use it in response to its enter-play trigger, so it was necessary to change it to a substitution ability that prevents it from ever entering play if you don't sacrifice for it instead.)
Comments (43)
Auriok Salvagers+Pyrite Spellbomb. You make infite white mana by sacrifying LED and putting it back in play with auriok. Once you said that you have 56465342 white manas, go On for 6541654 red mana and puch your opponents with infite spellbombs.No worries with manaburn as you win within the phase(and that manaburn is disappearing in one month,but whatever)
-Lion's eye diamond+Breaktrough+Golgari Grave-Troll+land. This is a turn one free win in a well known and hated legacy deck called ichorid,that allows you to mill youself from 24cards at best.
Putting your land on the board.putting your LED on the board. Playing Breakthrough, sacrifying LED in response without giving priority to the opponent before everything is stacked. your whole hand in discarded and you may dredge on each of the four draw you have to make.
-Lion's eye diamond +infernal tutor; you have the LED in play,then you play infernal tutor and sacrifice LED in response like in the previous case.You can now search any SINGLE card of your deck and play it with the mana produced by LED.If you add up Ill-Gotten Gains and a third land, yu may just play it afterwards and redo the move so you can up this turn storm counter significantly. : )
these are the most played use of the card,but i have no doubt there is many others.
You need to use its effect when an ability is on the stack that allows you to draw more cards, such as Ad Naseuam. Then you get the mana and refill your hand.
Another great use for this card is with Yawgmoth's Will:
Swamp; Lion's Eye Diamond; Dark Ritual; Yawg Will. Then crack Diamond...pull it back with Will...use it again. Then reuse your dark ritual. 8 black mana floating turn 1 with a graveyard full of goodies you can play as though they were in your hand. Don't even need reanimator...
Mana abilities, unlike other activated and triggered abilities, can be activated at a very strange time: during the casting or resolving of a spell (rule 605.3a).
Lion's Eye Diamond's ability is a mana ability; however, it has that "instant speed" timing restriction. Without the restriction, you could, for example, cast Rampant Growth and then, while the spell is resolving, cast Panglacial Wurm from your library, using the LED mana. The timing restriction prevents you from doing this because you aren't able to cast an instant while a spell is resolving.
Also, without the restriction, you could cast a spell (let's say something broken, like Yawgmoth's Will) by putting it onto the stack and THEN activating the ability of LED. You won't have to discard your spell because it's on the stack and no longer in your hand. (Rule 601.2 may illustrate this further.)
I believe the text also stops you from using the mana from LED to pay the madness cost of the cards you discard, as the cost is now fully compleated (ie: the cards are no longer in a state of being discarded and are in your graveyard) by the time you get the mana.
Only this one turned out to be a wholly different type of broken than it's predecessor.
It just goes to show you, you never know what card will be abused next.
"Alright!"
Memory Jar was one that used this most.
The fact that the Oracle ruling breaks out of character for this card but not for cards like Chaos Orb and Shahrazad tells you all you need to know about it.
Spells are declared and put on the stack, then the player activates mana abilities to pay for it. You can cast a card from your hand then choose to pay with LED if it was unrestricted.
You would also be able to use it in dredge and activate it while dredging to discard dredgers if you have multiple draws stacked.
The instant priority ruling prevents all those shinanegans.
Remember, you cant pay for Join Forces commander cards with LED. You cant pay for mana leak once you declared to pay; must be poped in response to mana leak if you want to do it.
Believe it or not, this is a benefactor of power creep and changing game mechanics(Hi there, High Tide, drain power). Not useful when it first came out, there were few ways to play from the GY. It ended up being saved by new keywords in different sets and is not way too friggin' expensive when it was worth practically nothing.
Dredge and other tech make this NOW a 5/5, when it was a 3/5 @ printing.
Turn 1: land, grindstone
Turn 2: land, painter's servant, call any color, LED, sacrifice the LED for three mana to activate the grindstone on your opponent's deck. The painter's servant turns their entire deck the chosen color, including the lands, so it will mill the whole thing.
Obviously this can be accelerated to the first turn with other cards, but this is the base case.
I'm assuming you mean to cast Yawgmoth's Will (using the Ritual mana) then respond to it with the Diamond's activation, yes? (The way it's written could be suggesting letting Will resolve and then cracking the diamond, which doesn't work unfortunately)
If I had a worthless hand, I'd tap it, use Jace's Archivist's ability, and cycle my hand.
You could do all of this in reaction to a spell being cast, so even if you're tapped out, you can cycle into a Counterspell and use it.
Lion Indian Diamond.
Lion's I ('Eye') Diamond.
Maybe not; but why else such a weird picture?
They errataed this card to play as an instant when the rules were changed because that was necessary to make it function the way it had originally been designed. The same is true of Lotus Vale (it was printed before the modern stack, so you couldn't originally tap it in response to its ability triggering and it was fine for it to require the sacrifice after coming into play; but when the modern stack rules came into effect, it became possible to play it, then use it in response to its enter-play trigger, so it was necessary to change it to a substitution ability that prevents it from ever entering play if you don't sacrifice for it instead.)