Thats just the coolest discard based card i've ever seen! (Not counting Hypnotic Specter)
DonRoyale
★★★★☆ (4.9/5.0)(4 votes)
And people were whiny about how much Hypnotic Specter got reprinted/remade. Now Guul Draz Specter doesn't look like as much of a joke, does it?
Demonic_Angel13
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Good with the Standard Specters and great in casual with Hell-Bent cards.
Khias
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(9 votes)
I will have 2. You will be Blightened, my specters will cackle
Gaussgoat
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
Devastating card for black discard decks. The current set has a LOT of discarding effects for black, so this thing is a potential game winner.
4.5/5
LokiGodofChaos
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
A welcome addition to any Megrim centered deck. Helps with the late game problem of your opponent drawing a card and playing it before you can force a discard. Now they are stuck between possibly losing a card and 2 life or losing 5 life during their next upkeep.
MrBiggz216
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
omg... this card > the rack in mono black discard... I can see it wreaking havoc with Hymn to Tourach .
but this card WITH the rack = people not wanting to play with you anymore, the combo will force ragequits. lol
Dingo777
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
a nice card in discard decks, is a game finisher against anyone who cant fill their hands fast, or gain 5 life a turn, but yeah, mind rot, esper charm, and blightning, all turn 3 spells, will get you the 2 counters, and then you just hold this over them saying, hold that card or 5 life a turn
use other discard spells to mill the rest of their hand and you will win, can imagine an evil person playing 1 T1, then 2 more T2, then a mind rot T3 and then switching to control and wait for your opponent to be dead, if you can eliminate the rest of a dwindling hand, you will make it hurt
figure they are on the draw, have had 10 cards in hand, T3 for them, 3 lands, a spell each turn, and your discard 2 spell, leaves them with 2 on turn 3 close, another discard spell, on T4 that hits 2 and they take 15 on their turn, draw 1, and either play it and lose their next turn, or you can try and discard it on your turn and they lose their turn, either way it is win T5
Guest643499915
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
turn 1: quest turn 2: duress turn 3: megrim turn 4: Scepter of Fugue turn 5: Mind Sludge if you need it, or Gul Draz Specter. Roll in happy fun times.
True_Mumin
★☆☆☆☆ (1.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Finally something strictly better than Megrim! Delicious.
Selez
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
From what I've read on the community spotlight, this card is supposed to be really bad. But I disagree. This, Blightning, Nyxathid, Duress, Megrim, Hellfire Mongrel, Guul Draz Specter, Lavaclaw Reaches and some early game removal such as Smother or Bolt could make this a viable deck in the new Standard.
Are two quest counters put on it if you play one Mind rot effect?
The theory behind discard decks: If you don't have the tools to win, at least make sure that your opponent doesn't either.
HairlessThoctar
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.6/5.0)(4 votes)
I think this is much better than Megrim most of the time, but they're still pretty abysmal as they don't do anything by themselves.
The Rack always was and always will be more playable.
blindthrall
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Discard hasn't gotten hard like this since Nyxathid.
TokenMaster
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
I would run this with Funeral Charm to make sure it can be activated late-game, but if you get it early-game, it's The Rack on crack.
BongHippie
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I just have to say Megrim + Underworld Dreams + Quest for the Nihil Stone = pain. I make you afraid of both picking up cards and playing cards. Pick up cards and I make you take lots of damage with Megrim and UD. Empty your hand then you will take a big 5 damage. Some cards like Funeral Charm are good for that deck because you can make him take another 5 next turn because Funeral Charm is an instant and you can play it after your opponent drew a card. 5/5
gouzu
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
wow this card is too op, its way to easy to deal 5 direct damage
Gabriev
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Are you people mental? This card is terrible. The conditions for it to be effective are ridiculous. You should just be running another threat or disruption spell.
The only place I'd remotely consider this card would be in a multiplayer discard deck.
EternalLurker
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Strange. This should be an Ascension, not a Quest. It doesn't have to be sacrificed.
jstorrie
★★☆☆☆ (2.3/5.0)(5 votes)
At the beginning of your opponent's upkeep, if they have zero cards in hand you should be already winning. 2/5.
Hibron
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
When I got this card in a booster pack, I was like: cool! Stick it in a megrim deck, and you have a saccable 1 mana enchantment for B!
Then I realized that it doesn't have to be sacrificed...
KrosanGardener
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
A "win-more" card. You have to play it first turn, or it's no good. You want to be playing your Duress-type effects first turn, so this is directly in conflict. It's incredibly situational. And it's an abysmal top-deck.
jumpenrun
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Megrim? What a joke if you're using that on your MBC deck. I totally prefer this one. When there's no card in opponent's hand, Megrim is useless. This is pretty good and excellent if you have a Raven's Crime in your deck. Just imagine if your opponent has no hand in the 5th turn and and Nyxathid is attacking, that's 12 life loss to him. Quick death. I love this card.
themlsna
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I was on the fence about this one until I realized the problem I was having with my Nath of the Gilt-Leaf was that my opponents were out of cards, and I wasn't getting elf tokens. Now, I either get a creature, or a free 5 damage. I love cards with passive abilities.
DeathDark
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Try same block. Inquisition of Kozilek. First turn drop one of these, second turn drop two of those, and then just empty their hand and keep it that way. To help, you can get Zendikar's specter (Guul Draz) in the group, who'll become 5/5 when they're empty. This makes a good, solid 10 damage per turn, while still within Standard. Not to mention M10 has Duress, Mind Rot, Mind Shatter, and Hypnotic Specter to help, and M11 has Liliana's stuff to help.
offtopic : regarding the deck from the article: terminate out- staggershock in, dark tutelage out - qftns in
Arglypuff
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(5 votes)
This card sucks. Just flat out bad.
Troutz
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Solves the frustrating problem Megrim decks run into of your opponents not having any cards to discard ever because you cleaned them out so fast.
Also, to people who say this card is terrible, holy crap you do realize that just because it will never see play in a tournament deck doesn't mean it's terrible right? The vast majority of Magic players will never play in a tournament. This is a fantastic card for casual Megrim decks.
ZirilanoftheClaw
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
I honestly don't understand this card The turn goes draw -> upkeep So their always gunna have a card at the beginning of their turn
divine_exodus
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
The turn goes upkeep and then draw, genius.
Tjolgtjar
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I get lots of ragequits on MTGO when I play this on turn one... Don't know if this is good or bad...
Vakyoom
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Black/blue discard mill deck... So many ways to win... So many...
Game 1: nihil stone + Horrifying revelation/inquisition + guul draz specter, then painful quandary + bloodhusk ritaulist to seal the empty hand and the win.
Game 2: Archive traps + hedron crab + tome scour + keening stone to empty the library and win just as easily. Too much fun.
I had a mix of blue/black both games but black won me the first and blue won me the second. Both in 7-8 turns.
mdakw576
★☆☆☆☆ (1.1/5.0)(4 votes)
The fact that your opponent needs to have no cards in hand makes this almost unplayable.
Gelzo
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
"Are these the Nazis, Walter?" "They're nihilists, Donny, nothing to be afraid of."
Part of me wants to use this in a deck just so I have an excuse to quote that movie. I could use Nihiliths, Nihil Spellbombs, and fill my playgroup with Nihilistic Glee.
It really is a "win more" card. If it's triggering, then you've already forced two discards and have the opponent down to zero cards. I really wanted it to be good, but just too fragile and unreliable. I got it to win a few games, but not as many as The Rack does.
Lyoncet
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
To those saying this sucks because it's too hard to get your opponent's hand size down, I'd recommend you actually try playing a discard deck. Where discard decks struggle is after they get their opponent down to 0 cards. Since your opponent is top-decking, and most of your discard spells are sorceries, you usually can't make them discard anything, meaning you can't lock them down or get card advantage. While this card doesn't really solve that problem, it does make your opponent die when that happens. Which is even better.
To those saying this should be an Ascension and not a Quest because you don't sacrifice it, please do your research. Quest for Ula's Temple, Quest for the Goblin Lord, and Quest for Renewal all stay in play. So out of 9 Quests, 4 stay in play. Your point makes no sense whatsoever.
Yes, this card has some limitations. Obviously it only goes in discard decks (shocking!), and if it comes out too late, it can be hard or impossible to get it online. But do you know what other win condition has limitations? Every. Single. One. That's why unless you don't rely on one card to win unless you just can't fit more than one (Protip: you can.) Put a few of these in your deck, put in a few Nyxathids, and put in a few Painful Quandary, just to name the first two that come to mind. If you can't activate Quest for the Nihil Stone, that means your opponent is top-decking. That means they're taking 5 damage per turn from Quandary (unless they're drawing nothing but lands – unlikely) and you're swinging with 3-CMC 7/7s.
This card can easily shut your opponent down in the early turns of the game. If not, it's still ensuring that if you can't get your Nyxathid powerful enough, or you end up choked on mana for Painful Quandary, or your opponent is playing Runed Halo, you can still win just by forcing discards – which shuts your opponent down, and which your deck is built around anyways.
MindAblaze
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(1 vote)
How does this work with Chandra ablaze's -2 ability? Does it get two counters if that player has two or more cards to discard?
Just to clarify things, when the beginning of a turn starts there are 3 steps
1.Untap phase, untap all permanents unless a card's effect specifically says not to
2. Upkeep phase, all card's effects affecting the beginning of the turn does so now(Ex. during your upkeep pay blah blah blah)
3. Draw phase, draw a card
So this card's effect happens BEFORE the card draw, so this enchantment can make it to where your opponents lose 5 life each turn
Lifegainwithbite
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This is one of the deadliest finishers for my discard deck that packs Megrim and Liliana's Caress. While some people use Sign in Blood or a similar card in their discard decks so their opponent draws more cards to discard, this card eliminates the need for that completely.
blurrymadness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
The amazing self synergy here is that if they keep a card in their hand, your discard deck is going to attempt to get rid of it. What this really does is say "you lose 5 life each turn if I've ever gotten you to zero cards" as you're likely to have repeatable discard in a deck running this.
Besides necessarily the opponent have to discard 2 cards while this is in play, to generate markers, he can not have any cards in hand during his upkeek. Avoiding any of the two variables he is not harmed.
the fact that the beginning of upkeep begins before the draw step makes this card deliciously beautiful and delightfully evil especially when consumed with Sire of Insanity
Seems that R&D have made being Sadistic into an art-form.
Oh! You do great things, terrible, but great.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. This card makes me feel so unhinged every time I play it.)
Comments (46)
4.5/5
but this card WITH the rack = people not wanting to play with you anymore, the combo will force ragequits. lol
use other discard spells to mill the rest of their hand and you will win, can imagine an evil person playing 1 T1, then 2 more T2, then a mind rot T3 and then switching to control and wait for your opponent to be dead, if you can eliminate the rest of a dwindling hand, you will make it hurt
figure they are on the draw, have had 10 cards in hand, T3 for them, 3 lands, a spell each turn, and your discard 2 spell, leaves them with 2 on turn 3 close, another discard spell, on T4 that hits 2 and they take 15 on their turn, draw 1, and either play it and lose their next turn, or you can try and discard it on your turn and they lose their turn, either way it is win T5
turn 2: duress
turn 3: megrim
turn 4: Scepter of Fugue
turn 5: Mind Sludge if you need it, or Gul Draz Specter. Roll in happy fun times.
Are two quest counters put on it if you play one Mind rot effect?
The theory behind discard decks: If you don't have the tools to win, at least make sure that your opponent doesn't either.
The Rack always was and always will be more playable.
The only place I'd remotely consider this card would be in a multiplayer discard deck.
Then I realized that it doesn't have to be sacrificed...
hahaha how could he not include this(quest for the nihil stone)?! no wonder he had bad matchups...
offtopic : regarding the deck from the article: terminate out- staggershock in, dark tutelage out - qftns in
Also, to people who say this card is terrible, holy crap you do realize that just because it will never see play in a tournament deck doesn't mean it's terrible right? The vast majority of Magic players will never play in a tournament. This is a fantastic card for casual Megrim decks.
The turn goes draw -> upkeep
So their always gunna have a card at the beginning of their turn
Game 1: nihil stone + Horrifying revelation/inquisition + guul draz specter, then painful quandary + bloodhusk ritaulist to seal the empty hand and the win.
Game 2: Archive traps + hedron crab + tome scour + keening stone to empty the library and win just as easily. Too much fun.
I had a mix of blue/black both games but black won me the first and blue won me the second. Both in 7-8 turns.
"They're nihilists, Donny, nothing to be afraid of."
Part of me wants to use this in a deck just so I have an excuse to quote that movie. I could use Nihiliths, Nihil Spellbombs, and fill my playgroup with Nihilistic Glee.
Then laugh maniacally.
To those saying this should be an Ascension and not a Quest because you don't sacrifice it, please do your research. Quest for Ula's Temple, Quest for the Goblin Lord, and Quest for Renewal all stay in play. So out of 9 Quests, 4 stay in play. Your point makes no sense whatsoever.
Yes, this card has some limitations. Obviously it only goes in discard decks (shocking!), and if it comes out too late, it can be hard or impossible to get it online. But do you know what other win condition has limitations? Every. Single. One. That's why unless you don't rely on one card to win unless you just can't fit more than one (Protip: you can.) Put a few of these in your deck, put in a few Nyxathids, and put in a few Painful Quandary, just to name the first two that come to mind. If you can't activate Quest for the Nihil Stone, that means your opponent is top-decking. That means they're taking 5 damage per turn from Quandary (unless they're drawing nothing but lands – unlikely) and you're swinging with 3-CMC 7/7s.
This card can easily shut your opponent down in the early turns of the game. If not, it's still ensuring that if you can't get your Nyxathid powerful enough, or you end up choked on mana for Painful Quandary, or your opponent is playing Runed Halo, you can still win just by forcing discards – which shuts your opponent down, and which your deck is built around anyways.
1.Untap phase, untap all permanents unless a card's effect specifically says not to
2. Upkeep phase, all card's effects affecting the beginning of the turn does so now(Ex. during your upkeep pay blah blah blah)
3. Draw phase, draw a card
So this card's effect happens BEFORE the card draw, so this enchantment can make it to where your opponents lose 5 life each turn
I will be trying it with Hypnotic Specter (of course!) and things like Raven's Crime. Good with Bloodchief Ascension as well, but more due to the type of deck you'll be running.
Besides necessarily the opponent have to discard 2 cards while this is in play, to generate markers, he can not have any cards in hand during his upkeek. Avoiding any of the two variables he is not harmed.
Compare its effect with The Rack or Shrieking Affliction.
Seems that R&D have made being Sadistic into an art-form.
Oh! You do great things, terrible, but great.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. This card makes me feel so unhinged every time I play it.)