It seems like a really great card, but it isn't as good as it looks. While removing any permanent is useful having to wait a turn to do so can be a bad idea. And considereing that its on a 1/1 body that can easily get killed from just about anything only limits its usefulness even further. Although I guess this does speak to whites philosophy; theres too much fairness for you and the opponent, theres no deception and it allows the opponent to anticipate.
FirstPrime
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(2 votes)
True, but you can sometimes force an oppenent to use up a removal spell on it as well. That being said I don't like this guy much either.
kitsunewarlock
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(6 votes)
This card's power is in its formatting. Removing him isn't part of the cost. Its part of the effect. So if you use a card like Karakas or Call to Heel, you can save him and remove your opponent's card. The Karakas + Mangara combo is part of a very influential Legacy deck called "Death and Taxes".
cats_and_me
★★★★☆ (4.8/5.0)(7 votes)
Untapping works, too! Thousand-Year Elixir allows you to immediately remove two different permanents for four mana..
Ephinophobia
★★☆☆☆ (2.1/5.0)(4 votes)
I have a problem with this card and the rulings they put in, in regards to Flickerform. Here's the ruling "If Mangara of Corondor leaves the battlefield before the ability resolves, the targeted permanent will still be exiled." Flickerform reads - 2WW: Exile enchanted creature and all Auras attached to it. At the beginning of the next end step, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control. If you do, return those Auras to the battlefield under their owners' control attached to that creature. So my problem is this: When you use MC's ability, its on the stack, then you use Flickerform to remove him from the game, or "Exile" him, placing Flickerform on top of the stack. The Exile from Flickerform takes effect first, removing Mangara from the game, so why does his ability stay in play on the stack? Why doesnt Flickerform act as a counter to Mangara's ability since it takes effect first? I dont get why Mangara's ability still goes off when he isnt in play anymore AND he cant play this ability while Exiled AND he cant remove himself from the game when already removed. Only respond to this is you have actual ruling's, I'm not interested in opinion's. I just want to know how this works and why.
izzet_guild_mage
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(4 votes)
Phobia, it works because the Exiling of Mangara is part of the resolution. You declare the ability and pick the target, then you have a window of opportunity before Mangara and the target poof. During this gap, you can move Mangara to a different zone, which will cause the game to lose track of it. It will then do what it can of the pending ability, exiling the target and failing to find the Mangara, causing that part of the effect to pass with no effect.
WeAreTheFury
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(5 votes)
regarding Ephinophobia's question: removing mangara is not part of the cost (everything before the colon are costs) out of the comprehensives rules about resolving spells:
607.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any actions.
Example: Plague Spores reads, “Destroy target nonblack creature and target land. They can’t be regenerated.” Suppose the same animated land is chosen both as the nonblack creature and as the land, and the color of the creature land is changed to black before Plague Spores resolves. Plagues Spores isn’t countered because the black creature land is still a legal target for the “target land” part of the spell.
you see, the target is completely legal at all times no matter where mangara is at the moment and thus the ability won't be countered on resolution
The creature who activated doesn't need to still be in play by resolution unless the card asks so. Therefore, Mangara can be miles away by the time this hits. Needed haste I think, but works well with flicker stuff i guess.
I woud love to build an EDH with him as the general. The only probems would be that he gets more and more expensive the more you use him, and the fact that there aren't a whole lot of ways to give him haste apart from Equipments and Thousand-Year Elixir.
dberry02
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(3 votes)
Activate then bounce it with something like Whitemane Lion! Mono white land destruction anyone?
Ephinophobia: You're showing your age, as a Magic player. Removing the source of the ability hasn't countered the ability since before at least Sixth Edition rules. If they wanted the ability to work as you say it should, it would be phrased ": If Mangara of Corondor is in play, exile Mangara and target permanent."
Alsebra
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(3 votes)
Taking out the 'of' yields quite a few good ones:
A dragon car, moron. Can organ ram door? Drama Rag O'Connor
Tap him with another Amber Prison just to make him rage.
001010011100101110
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(3 votes)
YOU SHALL NOT PASS
AssKickingBoots
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I love it when people say "Combo it with this card, duh!" and it turns out to be about a $50+ card like Karakas. Yeah, I'll to get right on that after I finish buying a playset of Bayous to mana fix my B/G creature sacrifice deck.
BorosGeneral
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
In a B / W deck... Turn one: Swamp. Dark ritual, Trinisphere Turn two: Plains Turn three: Plains, This Turn four: It's time to exile some lands.
Just one of many ways to abuse Trinisphere (who's idea was it to reprint that thing seriously) and a use for making your opponents stay several mana below you.
adrian.malacoda
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@JL2736: If you're talking about giving Mangara shroud to protect him from exile, it won't work, since Mangara's ability doesn't target himself, giving him shroud won't prevent him from being exiled. You can, however, untap him using the aura, since exiling himself is part of the ability and not the cost, you can activate his ability, then untap him, and then activate, then untap...
Joseph_Leito
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Hey Emrakul, I love ya, and Imma let you finish, but *tap*
EDIT: @adrian.malcoda: Yeah, I was talking about the second part of what you mentioned. I realize it can't protect itself from exile, I just meant you could untap him in response to the exile trigger as many times as you have blue mana.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Bouncing or flickering while his ability is on the stack will save your guy but exile the opponents. Maybe even sacrifice, then attack with sun titan. Or even more nasty, sacrifice and put him on a mimic vat.
pedrodyl
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Essentially a better, monowhite Vindicate, but with suspend 1 and the ability to chump block. 5/5
igniteice
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@BorosGeneral With nothing else on the board, it's only time to exile one land, as you've given no way to untap Mangara, and it's going to exile itself.
Comments (41)
Flickerform reads - 2WW: Exile enchanted creature and all Auras attached to it. At the beginning of the next end step, return that card to the battlefield under its owner's control. If you do, return those Auras to the battlefield under their owners' control attached to that creature.
So my problem is this: When you use MC's ability, its on the stack, then you use Flickerform to remove him from the game, or "Exile" him, placing Flickerform on top of the stack. The Exile from Flickerform takes effect first, removing Mangara from the game, so why does his ability stay in play on the stack? Why doesnt Flickerform act as a counter to Mangara's ability since it takes effect first? I dont get why Mangara's ability still goes off when he isnt in play anymore AND he cant play this ability while Exiled AND he cant remove himself from the game when already removed.
Only respond to this is you have actual ruling's, I'm not interested in opinion's. I just want to know how this works and why.
removing mangara is not part of the cost (everything before the colon are costs)
out of the comprehensives rules about resolving spells:
607.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target
that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed
or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if
all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not
countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is
illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any
actions.
Example: Plague Spores reads, “Destroy target nonblack creature and target land.
They can’t be regenerated.” Suppose the same animated land is chosen both as the
nonblack creature and as the land, and the color of the creature land is changed to black
before Plague Spores resolves. Plagues Spores isn’t countered because the black
creature land is still a legal target for the “target land” part of the spell.
you see, the target is completely legal at all times no matter where mangara is at the moment and thus the ability won't be countered on resolution
just exile everything you want to
A dragon car, moron.
Can organ ram door?
Drama Rag O'Connor
http://www.mbhs.edu/~bconnell/cgi-bin/anagram.cgi?cpw=1&phrase=mangaracorondor
6th star because it includes the phrase 'Exile target permanent'.
7th star because his ART looks like something from Lord of the Rings.
8th star because of (insert anagram here).
9th star because he's not $50.
there are so many non-strategy related awesome things about this card, it's pretty much the ultimate
"but wait, there's MORE" card.
But Wait! There's MORE!!!
He's also actually good in games. That's one might fine card right there, yep.
Turn one: Swamp. Dark ritual, Trinisphere
Turn two: Plains
Turn three: Plains, This
Turn four: It's time to exile some lands.
Just one of many ways to abuse Trinisphere (who's idea was it to reprint that thing seriously) and a use for making your opponents stay several mana below you.
EDIT: @adrian.malcoda: Yeah, I was talking about the second part of what you mentioned. I realize it can't protect itself from exile, I just meant you could untap him in response to the exile trigger as many times as you have blue mana.
With nothing else on the board, it's only time to exile one land, as you've given no way to untap Mangara, and it's going to exile itself.
This card represents one of the heroes of the Mirage block storyline. Mangara was betrayed by Jolrael, Empress of Beasts and Kaervek the Merciless; he was locked away for years in an Amber Prison. He would be eventually rescued by Captain Sissay of the Skyship Weatherlight.
Great withto arms!, which allows you to break the ability and nets you a card. That's a nice 2-for-1, and you can get a combat trick out of it.
Mangara's got ya' covered.
An interesting thing to note about what you've referenced is that Mangara's Tome Does something very similar to Skyship Weatherlight.