This is my favorite card from SoK. Most people won't pay 4+ life to draw 4 cards. I usually start at 4 life for the bid, which usually nets me 4 cards in turn. But if my opponent bid 5, I'll go for 6 depending on how late in the game it is and life totals.
Specifically, can you "bid" life if your life total can't change? Rules say you can't pay costs that involve changing your life, but bidding isn't a cost here as far as I can tell.
So with an emperion on the table can you bid more life than your opponent has and keep your life when pain's reward resolves?
DacenOctavio
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
@ roguepariah:
You just broke this card. Congrats! Bidding life is not the same as paying life, and you only lose life and draw the cards if your bid is the highest number. Platinum Emperion's rule is like a replacement effect, so you don't lose the life for drawing the cards. Now, the challenge is building a deck that not only cheats Emperion into play early enough for resolving Pain's Reward to matter, but keeping your Emperion on the board and under your control as Pain's Reward resolves.
1/1/2011 Spells and abilities that would normally cause you to gain or lose life still resolve, but the life-gain or life-loss part simply has no effect.
Blind_Piper
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@DacenOctavio: Players don't bid until the spell starts to resolve. By that point, there's no spot between bidding life and losing life for players to gain priority. So, if you've reached bidding life and your Platinum Emperion is still alive, you're safe.
LordRandomness
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Runs excellently in any drawburn using black...it's easy to trap opponents so that if they let you win you use the cards to burn their face off, and if they pay life to stop you you burn their face off.
iUseBreakOpen
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Fantastic synergy in Liliana's Caress decks where one of the biggest problems is having your opponent run out of cards to discard. Unfortunately, that's the only situation that I can think of that makes this card worth playing.
Yes, you would get mad johnny points for cheating a Platinum Emperion into play to use with this card, but it's too many hoops to jump through for not that strong of an effect.
Using it in conjunction with Children of Korlis or Tainted Sigil is cool, but it still boils down to using 4 mana and 2 cards (or 7 mana and 2 cards) to draw 4 cards.
On its own, this card inherently gives the advantage to your opponent. Why? Whether you win the bid or lose the bid, you are out 3 mana and a card. To think of it another way:
If you win the bid, then you're up 3 cards (you used 1 card to draw 4). If they win the bid, then they're up 5 cards (they get 4 cards and you're out 1 card). And either way you're out 3 mana which could have been spent on something else.
Most of the people in my play group realize that a difference of 8 cards is on the line AND that a difference of 8 cards is worth far more than a few life points. They consistently bid as high as 8 life and even when you try to build your deck to quickly put them in a position where bidding that much life is unwise, the fact that you have this card in your hand means that your opponent is likely to have one more card than you do to ensure that it is YOU who is in a position where it is unwise to bid that much life.
j_mindfingerpainter
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
For those of you who have read my similar comments on cards like these, I'm sorry but I'll say it again.
Step 1: Control Phyrexian Unlife. Step 2: Play this. Step 4: Bid trillions of however much you would care to bid life. Step 5: Play a 1,000,000,000,013/1,000,000,000,013 (if you bid a trillion) Death's Shadow. Step 6: Offer to buy your opponent(s) coffee so they don't sue you or something.
EDIT: It ain't no creature, but it dies to Mindslaver. Still, I love it.
C1mpl0c1ty
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Haxor395
No, Purity would not work with this, as it prevents damage. Pain's Reward says you lose life, which is strictly different from taking damage. When you take damage you lose life, but when you lose life you don't always do so because you took damage.
psychichobo
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
As much as Saviours sucked incredibly hard, it did have some beautifully elegant rares. This along with Choice of Damnations always makes me grin with diabolic glee.
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
WOAH! What a powerhouse!!! Okay, burn. I choose 10 to start.
Draw 10 bolts for 2B? GG. You take 10+ damage from 2B spell? GG. Also, broken in EDH. 20 cards for 20 life? Unless someone has the balls to outbid you and kill themselves.
"Just have your cards.. sheesh." Plop out some Death's Shadows and attack for a billion (or.. 8 each.)
Or instead, fill your deck with rituals, ramp, etc... then use this as a Tendrils of Agony fueler. Fantastic with Tainted Sigil and the like.
Start the bidding high and either you get 4 cards for 3 mana, or your opponent gets 4 cards, losing most of his life, and you just burn him to death after netting yourself a bunch of life.
DoragonShinzui
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@TheWrathofShane: You can't read, can you? It says draw 4 cards. Not how much you bid. 4.
Comments (19)
Specifically, can you "bid" life if your life total can't change?
Rules say you can't pay costs that involve changing your life, but bidding isn't a cost here as far as I can tell.
So with an emperion on the table can you bid more life than your opponent has and keep your life when pain's reward resolves?
You just broke this card. Congrats! Bidding life is not the same as paying life, and you only lose life and draw the cards if your bid is the highest number. Platinum Emperion's rule is like a replacement effect, so you don't lose the life for drawing the cards. Now, the challenge is building a deck that not only cheats Emperion into play early enough for resolving Pain's Reward to matter, but keeping your Emperion on the board and under your control as Pain's Reward resolves.
Proof, taken from Platinum Emperion's ruling:
1/1/2011 Spells and abilities that would normally cause you to gain or lose life still resolve, but the life-gain or life-loss part simply has no effect.
Yes, you would get mad johnny points for cheating a Platinum Emperion into play to use with this card, but it's too many hoops to jump through for not that strong of an effect.
Using it in conjunction with Children of Korlis or Tainted Sigil is cool, but it still boils down to using 4 mana and 2 cards (or 7 mana and 2 cards) to draw 4 cards.
On its own, this card inherently gives the advantage to your opponent. Why? Whether you win the bid or lose the bid, you are out 3 mana and a card. To think of it another way:
If you win the bid, then you're up 3 cards (you used 1 card to draw 4).
If they win the bid, then they're up 5 cards (they get 4 cards and you're out 1 card).
And either way you're out 3 mana which could have been spent on something else.
Most of the people in my play group realize that a difference of 8 cards is on the line AND that a difference of 8 cards is worth far more than a few life points. They consistently bid as high as 8 life and even when you try to build your deck to quickly put them in a position where bidding that much life is unwise, the fact that you have this card in your hand means that your opponent is likely to have one more card than you do to ensure that it is YOU who is in a position where it is unwise to bid that much life.
Step 1: Control Phyrexian Unlife.
Step 2: Play this.
Step 4: Bid trillions of however much you would care to bid life.
Step 5: Play a 1,000,000,000,013/1,000,000,000,013 (if you bid a trillion) Death's Shadow.
Step 6: Offer to buy your opponent(s) coffee so they don't sue you or something.
EDIT: It ain't no creature, but it dies to Mindslaver. Still, I love it.
No, Purity would not work with this, as it prevents damage. Pain's Reward says you lose life, which is strictly different from taking damage. When you take damage you lose life, but when you lose life you don't always do so because you took damage.
Okay,
Draw 10 bolts for 2B? GG. You take 10+ damage from 2B spell? GG.
Also, broken in EDH. 20 cards for 20 life? Unless someone has the balls to outbid you and kill themselves.
T2: Dark ritual, this, bid 15.
"Just have your cards.. sheesh." Plop out some Death's Shadows and attack for a billion (or.. 8 each.)
Or instead, fill your deck with rituals, ramp, etc... then use this as a Tendrils of Agony fueler. Fantastic with Tainted Sigil and the like.
Start the bidding high and either you get 4 cards for 3 mana, or your opponent gets 4 cards, losing most of his life, and you just burn him to death after netting yourself a bunch of life.