In a red, 60 card deck with 25 lands, after having used 20 of those cards (8 of which are lands, theoretically) (so now there are 28 non-lands and 12 lands) you have a 50% to deal 4 damage, a 25% chance to do 8 damage, and a 10% chance to deal 14 damage. About a 2% chance to deal 20 damage.
Those numbers are probably off by about ±5%. Regardless, it's pretty solid damage that is reusable. If you can get it into a deck that is stripped of lands, by some means (I recall some card that takes all plains out of the deck, just put one back in there via another card), then you can easily nuke someone to death or at least put on extremely heavy pressure.
Interesting concept, reasonably strong. Nothing gamebreaking, but it's solid.
what happens when there are absolutely no lands to stop at?
mtmills
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(4 votes)
If you don't find any lands while searching your deck, it does damage equal to the number of cards in your deck. So, there is no reason to leave any lands in your deck before you use this.
CriscoCookingOil
★☆☆☆☆ (1.2/5.0)(13 votes)
You have to find a land card for it to work.
"Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card."
There was a guy in our play group who used Mana Severance and took out all the lands. It worked a couple times until one of us read the "fine print". He quit playing with us and it was a shame. If you leave in one land you still can hit for a good amount on the first activation and then put the land on the bottom of your library for lots of damage.
"Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order."
Vadoff
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(9 votes)
@CriscoCookingOil
No you don't need a land for it to work, if it hits the end, you end up revealing your entire library and dealing that much damage.
Remember, in magic you only follow a spell/abilities direction to the best that you can. If it's complete or in this case, not possible to complete, then you simply move on to the rest of the directions.
This is a common known ruling for this card and has been addressed multiple times with the same answer by DCI judges and mtg salvation forum topics.
rubber
★★★☆☆ (3.8/5.0)(2 votes)
So, 0-land deck, 3T: deals 40+ damage to target player, then sort your entire deck? Not too bad, I guess.
I doubt that the decks that manage to be 0-land or close would ever use this, though. Empty the Warrens is the finisher in the decks I've seen. It also doesn't seem worth combo-ing. Some mono-red aggro might find a place for this.
Malnourished_Student
★★★★☆ (4.7/5.0)(6 votes)
I didn't realise it worked without lands... this may find a home in my 0-lands deck now :).
PsychoHatchet
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I was told by the DCI that you have to choose your target before revealing any cards from your library, now if that's true, I really don't see how good this card is.
kusumoto
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Are these comments serious? Belcher decks have the highest turn one kill percentage of any deck in Magic. 5/5
DyadyaIstvan
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(12 votes)
A card that has spawned a legacy deck gets 4/5? NO!! 5/5!
You always need to choose all the targets a spell / ability requires during the playing of such SoA. So yes, you need to choose targets before revealing anything
Gaussgoat
★☆☆☆☆ (1.5/5.0)(4 votes)
This card screams AWESOME. I mean, seriously. It ejects goblins as flaming ammo at the opponent. Are we really having any negative comments?
5/5
saith17
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(8 votes)
And according to level 4 judge Rune Horvik (as can be seen at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp ily/rh92):
If you don't have any lands in your library you reveal all the cards left in the library, then the Charbelcher deals 1 damage for each revealed card.
Even if one part of an effect fails, the other parts will try to do as much as possible. Revealing the land is just a stop condition, it's not a requirement to deal damage (it doesn't say "if you reveal a land..." ).
Selez
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Endless Horizons is much easier to find than Mana Severance is, for people looking to abuse this card.
Ihateworking
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
I've been using this card since '03/'04. Of course, back then we were still playing this in type 1. Check the Gencon 04 vintage top 8 for the deck example. At any rate I just bought my chrome mox playset to build the legacy version for the first time ever in over 14 years.
SleetFox
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Even when you aren't playing a wacky landless deck, this is still good, repeatable burn. This is a great card.
AvatarOfHOE
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
First-turn win if you can get this and Channel in your opening hand. Granted you'll need to find an extra green mana.
bijart_dauth
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It would be funny to use in a mono blue deck with one mountain, scry untill you find it, then cast Mana Severance and get rid of the rest of them. Burn them for twice your library.Then just do it again if you have a repeatable scry efect
HuntedWumpusMustDie
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
This card is always been a game finisher in my goblin deck. The word goblin is not in its name by accident, reduce your lands, fill it with cheap costing goblins, maybe a few brightstone ritual and it is a beast.
TheOgrz
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This card plus goblin recruiter just won me an EDH tournament. You basically point at someone and tell them that they lose.
001010011100101110
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I use moxens and Mana Crypt. 50 damage to your head.
Harleau
★★★★☆ (4.4/5.0)(7 votes)
Has anyone realized that, with no land, this card lets you rig your deck? See the last sentence on the card - put them on the bottom in ANY ORDER. You could make sure you have all the mana draws you need to epically win.
Vishlord
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
It doesn't take much effort for this to be deadly. Mono red and shirk land for mana producing creatures and artifacts and one hit kills abound. Strictly worse than Skull Catapult though - back when artifacts were still powerful.
Kragash
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
TheOgrz, you should play with smarter people. No one I know would have allowed an artifact without the 'Goblin' subtype to be played as a 'Goblin'... in fact, the people I know would have pointed back at you and said, 'No, YOU lose!'
zenitramleirdag
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
i run 1 in my parfait deck..for a faster kill once control has been established..
iUseBreakOpen
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Kragash, you misunderstood TheOgrz. He means: He played Goblin Charbelcher. Then he played Goblin Recruiter and put 40+ goblins on top of his library. Then he activated Charbelcher to do 40+ damage.
Squab
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@ saith17:
Yes, you could reveal your entire deck and then rig it so you win. After you deal 60 damage to target creature or player. Just one question - why haven't you won after dealing 60 damage to your opponent?
Lord_of_Tresserhorn
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Even beyond the whole landless kill, works well in mono-red Gobbos with Goblin Recruiter!
matunos
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Combos with mana.
Halidir_Orveck
★☆☆☆☆ (1.6/5.0)(4 votes)
This card infuriates me, If you fail to complete an ability "Until you reveal a land" the ability should not go off, I do not care what any judge says in my heart it is wrong.
j_mindfingerpainter
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
@ Harleau: I always wanted there to be a Scry X, where X is the number of cards in your library.
Anyway, I really wish I could somehow give a nonland card in my library the subtype Mountain and change the wording on the card so it triggered when you revealed a land OR a Mountain.
Anyways, awesome card and I'm not sure of why it isn't seeing any play in Modern (sure they don't have Taiga, but there are still Shocklands)
KnexWiz
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(5 votes)
@ saith17:
Yes, you could reveal your entire deck and then rig it so you win. After you deal 60 damage to target creature or player. Just one question - why haven't you won after dealing 60 damage to your opponent?
-Squab
i can think of three instances were you haven't won after dealing 60 damage to someone:
1) they have more than 60 life
2) they can't lose the game due to loss of life (both platinums, liches tomb, ect.)
3) you play multiplayer
Lord_of_Gelectrodes
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGH!
TheWrathofShane
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(2 votes)
I dont really care for the combo potential. On its own its fun and well priced. 4.5/5
pedrodyl
★★★☆☆ (3.9/5.0)(5 votes)
It's been a dream of mine to Mind Funeral someone playing a Charbelcher deck...
Pity this card isn't actually a Goblin tribal. It's still a fun win condition in a Goblin deck.
Antsache
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
@ Halidir_Orveck
The judge's decision was well-supported by the rules.
413.2b The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written...
416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as much as possible. Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads "Discard two cards" causes him or her to discard only that card. If an effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves as many as possible.
103.3. If an instruction requires taking an impossible action, it's ignored. (In many cases the card will specify consequences for this; if it doesn't, there's no effect.)
Nowhere on the card is it indicated that you must have a land in your deck to use this ability. So we know the ability can be activated without land in the deck. Once activated, it requires you to reveal cards until you hit a land. 413.2b requires you to take actions in the order they are printed on the card. Thus, you begin revealing cards before the "stop" clause starts to matter, only considering it once its conditions are met (I.E., showing a land). Since you do not hit a land, you continue revealing cards until you reach the end of your deck, at which point 103.3 kicks in, because you are still being instructed to reveal cards, but doing so has become an impossible action, and thus is now ignored.
The only question remaining is whether 103.3 is instructing us to ignore the entire process or just the final reveal. That matter is clarified by 416.3, which tells us the ability still does "as much as possible." Since it was possible for us to reveal cards until the point where we ran out, all of that is still done. The only thing that isn't done is the impossible thing: continuing to reveal cards after running out. Having revealed the entire deck, the rest of the card is fairly simple. Damage equal to the number of revealed cards is dealt.
ViashinoWizard
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
@Harleau: If you're activating this with no lands in your deck, you probably just won the game.
Etom11
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
For those of us that speak English as our native language the card quite clearly states in its first sentence that this card's effect is dependent on drawing a land card.
" 3, T: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card."
If a player never satisfies the first conditional statement of the card, how can you possibly apply anything subsequent? This is a broken ruling, and for those of you that like playing a broken format your shuffle and turn 1 will be all the magic you ever experience.
Demonic_Math_Tutor
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
What the Goblins of mirrodin lack in war-machine-building, they more than make up for it with their prowess in building giant, land consuming, flaming-rock-firing machines of death.
manaderp
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Etom11: The thing is, Magic wording isn't exactly normal English. Antsache gave the relevant rulings, and many, many judges have said the same thing. You don't get to disregard the rules because you think doing so would help on your crusade against a format you don't like and/or are arrogant. (And no, I don't play eternal formats for just that reason.) You can't look at the English meaning of a card's text without considering how the rules interpret it.
For the record, if you were correct, then it'd cause an unbreakable infinite loop. After you've revealed all the cards in your library, none of which are lands, you'd try to reveal the next, which isn't a land because it doesn't exist, and then (by your interpretation) you'd again try to reveal the next card, which still doesn't exist and therefore isn't a land, etc.
surewhynot
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Because of its use in combo shenanigans, its usefulness in other decks is often overlooked. This is a pretty sweet source of burn in a mono-red EDH.
Comments (46)
Those numbers are probably off by about ±5%. Regardless, it's pretty solid damage that is reusable. If you can get it into a deck that is stripped of lands, by some means (I recall some card that takes all plains out of the deck, just put one back in there via another card), then you can easily nuke someone to death or at least put on extremely heavy pressure.
Interesting concept, reasonably strong. Nothing gamebreaking, but it's solid.
"Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card."
There was a guy in our play group who used Mana Severance and took out all the lands. It worked a couple times until one of us read the "fine print". He quit playing with us and it was a shame. If you leave in one land you still can hit for a good amount on the first activation and then put the land on the bottom of your library for lots of damage.
"Put the revealed cards on the bottom of your library in any order."
No you don't need a land for it to work, if it hits the end, you end up revealing your entire library and dealing that much damage.
Remember, in magic you only follow a spell/abilities direction to the best that you can. If it's complete or in this case, not possible to complete, then you simply move on to the rest of the directions.
This is a common known ruling for this card and has been addressed multiple times with the same answer by DCI judges and mtg salvation forum topics.
I doubt that the decks that manage to be 0-land or close would ever use this, though. Empty the Warrens is the finisher in the decks I've seen. It also doesn't seem worth combo-ing. Some mono-red aggro might find a place for this.
You always need to choose all the targets a spell / ability requires during the playing of such SoA.
So yes, you need to choose targets before revealing anything
5/5
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp ily/rh92):
If you don't have any lands in your library you reveal all the cards
left in the library, then the Charbelcher deals 1 damage for each
revealed card.
Even if one part of an effect fails, the other parts will try to do as
much as possible. Revealing the land is just a stop condition, it's not
a requirement to deal damage (it doesn't say "if you reveal a land..." ).
Yes, you could reveal your entire deck and then rig it so you win. After you deal 60 damage to target creature or player. Just one question - why haven't you won after dealing 60 damage to your opponent?
Anyway, I really wish I could somehow give a nonland card in my library the subtype Mountain and change the wording on the card so it triggered when you revealed a land OR a Mountain.
Anyways, awesome card and I'm not sure of why it isn't seeing any play in Modern (sure they don't have Taiga, but there are still Shocklands)
Yes, you could reveal your entire deck and then rig it so you win. After you deal 60 damage to target creature or player. Just one question - why haven't you won after dealing 60 damage to your opponent?
-Squab
i can think of three instances were you haven't won after dealing 60 damage to someone:
1) they have more than 60 life
2) they can't lose the game due to loss of life (both platinums, liches tomb, ect.)
3) you play multiplayer
Pity this card isn't actually a Goblin tribal. It's still a fun win condition in a Goblin deck.
The judge's decision was well-supported by the rules.
413.2b The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions
in the order written...
416.3. If an effect attempts to do something impossible, it does only as
much as possible.
Example: If a player is holding only one card, an effect that reads
"Discard two cards" causes him or her to discard only that card. If an
effect moves cards out of the library (as opposed to drawing), it moves
as many as possible.
103.3. If an instruction requires taking an impossible action, it's
ignored. (In many cases the card will specify consequences for this; if
it doesn't, there's no effect.)
Nowhere on the card is it indicated that you must have a land in your deck to use this ability. So we know the ability can be activated without land in the deck. Once activated, it requires you to reveal cards until you hit a land. 413.2b requires you to take actions in the order they are printed on the card. Thus, you begin revealing cards before the "stop" clause starts to matter, only considering it once its conditions are met (I.E., showing a land). Since you do not hit a land, you continue revealing cards until you reach the end of your deck, at which point 103.3 kicks in, because you are still being instructed to reveal cards, but doing so has become an impossible action, and thus is now ignored.
The only question remaining is whether 103.3 is instructing us to ignore the entire process or just the final reveal. That matter is clarified by 416.3, which tells us the ability still does "as much as possible." Since it was possible for us to reveal cards until the point where we ran out, all of that is still done. The only thing that isn't done is the impossible thing: continuing to reveal cards after running out. Having revealed the entire deck, the rest of the card is fairly simple. Damage equal to the number of revealed cards is dealt.
" 3, T: Reveal cards from the top of your library until you reveal a land card."
If a player never satisfies the first conditional statement of the card, how can you possibly apply anything subsequent? This is a broken ruling, and for those of you that like playing a broken format your shuffle and turn 1 will be all the magic you ever experience.
For the record, if you were correct, then it'd cause an unbreakable infinite loop. After you've revealed all the cards in your library, none of which are lands, you'd try to reveal the next, which isn't a land because it doesn't exist, and then (by your interpretation) you'd again try to reveal the next card, which still doesn't exist and therefore isn't a land, etc.