So what is preventing the opponent from tutoring half his library and filling his hand to the brim Assembling all his combos and ending the game instantly. Since you played it, you are going to be down 3 mana off the bat.
It doesn't even need a combo. A simple "Mind Twist" can make this LOL so fast.
Drewid
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(7 votes)
please can anyone tell me how this card doesnt mill you completely every time? cant your opponent just draw until you're forced to draw your whole deck, milling ftw?
MuffinMafia
★★★★☆ (4.5/5.0)(1 vote)
@Drewid the reason why you "can not" be milled to death is because it says Up to this means that you can choose to draw 0 because it is a number between 4 you can also choose any of the other numbers too like to draw back to a perfect 7 or whatever you need.
Kitty_the_Kat
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(6 votes)
To everyone asking, "why doesn't this mill you everytime?"
First, you do not have to draw the 4. The card says you may draw "Up to 4" so if they try to mill you, you can just choose to draw 0.
Second, this is commonly used in conjunction with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind because of all the political uses of this card. You can build a temporary ally, and take out another player in the process. Alternatively, you can also target the player with Niv-Mizzet as well and have them take 4 damage each time they draw 2.
That, my friends, is how you cannot be milled to death by this card.
blink182zombies
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(4 votes)
You win if you control their turn with Mindslaver or Sorin and can Quicken it.
DarthParallax
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Battlefish- there's just about nothing like Mind Twist except Mind Twist. And in EDH, what are the odds you actually have that 1/100 cards in your hand? true, Mind Twist is indeed the ultimate response to this card, but for the most part playing in EDH in conjunction with Niv-Mizzet is correct, and no more vulnerable than any other good strategy.
Also, I BELIEVE Magnor_Criol was implying that Consecrated Sphinx is good WITH this, not against it. Consecrated Sphinx is actually good in either scenario. I'm not sure why his comment is rated so low. (1/2 star at time of posting)
Salient
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(5 votes)
": Draw four cards. Something something opponent something."
If you're playing Storm combo and use this, presumably you've already played Orim's Chant or Silence. They'll never have a next turn.
This is the weakest of several options for combo-draw, though. Meditate works the same way (you kill your opponent before they have a chance to benefit from the downside), but is at instant speed, so you can play it on the turn you play Reset and High Tide. Also worth looking at: Diminishing Returns.
Werewolf-
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Well as of a few days ago it's been banned in EDH, so this reprint is sort of moot. Neat to have it in the updated frame, anyway.
BlackMagnaboss
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(3 votes)
Banned!!!!!!
Superllama12
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
Finally banned in Commander! My friend always used this in his EDH decks and it would drive me crazy because it was so broken! Or maybe it angered me because he would never use it on me
wideyes
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Love playing this in a mill deck and seeing the frustration on my opponent's face. "Man, he's getting crazy card advantage ,and I want to keep up with him, but...!" Cards that force your opponent to weigh their decisions are awesome.
Arachibutyrophobia
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
kinda awkard now that it's banned in edh
Nathreet
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I can see why it got banned, it's not a very well thought out card. It seems like a tough decision the first 0, 1 or 2 times the opponent repeats the process. But what happens after 5 or 10 times? You stop drawing once you get enough cards, then your opponent keeps drawing until he gets enough cards. So 2 EDH players get a ludicrous advantage for only 3 mana, and everyone else playing can suck it.
Lord_of_Gelectrodes
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I have an idea, how about we print a card in commander then ban it!
troll_berserker
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
This seems like a poorly thought out card. The opponent can always draw as many cards as you because you will reach the about-to-be-milled-to-death phase sooner than the opponent, at which point they can draw until they're at the same point.
This card really ought to have said "Your opponent can repeat this effect up to 5 times."
@Troll_Berserker: It says "you draw up to four cards". You can choose to draw no cards, even if your opponent chooses to repeat the process a million times. So your opponent can't automatically mill you out of the game if you cast this. If your opponent chooses to draw their entire library, then that's up to them. Maybe you have a Runeflare Trap or are about to lay down a Price of Knowledge and kill them.
Kind of sad that it's banned now, even after having been printed in the commander decks.
MechaKraken
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
It makes one wonder, why the heck was this reprinted in a commander deck if it would just be banned later? It was a reprint, so play history had to have existed before the commander decks were sold, wizards should have had a good idea of what to expect from games with this card played in them.
On that note, good riddance indeed to this card, it caused the kinds of problems that make a card worthy of banning in the format. If someone had Fate Unraveler or Niv-Mizzet, the firemind out, it could help to protect from abusing this card, but all too often, people would just team up to get an unfair advantage, kill off the other players, and then concentrate on each other. It was the near equavalent of having a Blue Sun's Zenith or Sphinx's Revelation, for just a measly , which meant it could be cast as early as turn 2 or even 1 with the right opening hand, nevermind during the course of the game...
Comments (21)
It doesn't even need a combo. A simple "Mind Twist" can make this LOL so fast.
First, you do not have to draw the 4. The card says you may draw "Up to 4" so if they try to mill you, you can just choose to draw 0.
Second, this is commonly used in conjunction with Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind because of all the political uses of this card. You can build a temporary ally, and take out another player in the process. Alternatively, you can also target the player with Niv-Mizzet as well and have them take 4 damage each time they draw 2.
That, my friends, is how you cannot be milled to death by this card.
Also, I BELIEVE Magnor_Criol was implying that Consecrated Sphinx is good WITH this, not against it. Consecrated Sphinx is actually good in either scenario. I'm not sure why his comment is rated so low. (1/2 star at time of posting)
If you're playing Storm combo and use this, presumably you've already played Orim's Chant or Silence. They'll never have a next turn.
This is the weakest of several options for combo-draw, though. Meditate works the same way (you kill your opponent before they have a chance to benefit from the downside), but is at instant speed, so you can play it on the turn you play Reset and High Tide. Also worth looking at: Diminishing Returns.
This card really ought to have said "Your opponent can repeat this effect up to 5 times."
TRADE SECRETS!!!
try it now with a dash of Consecrated Sphinx and garnished with a side of Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind1
Kind of sad that it's banned now, even after having been printed in the commander decks.
On that note, good riddance indeed to this card, it caused the kinds of problems that make a card worthy of banning in the format. If someone had Fate Unraveler or Niv-Mizzet, the firemind out, it could help to protect from abusing this card, but all too often, people would just team up to get an unfair advantage, kill off the other players, and then concentrate on each other. It was the near equavalent of having a Blue Sun's Zenith or Sphinx's Revelation, for just a measly