Pointed Discussion

Just gos to show you how oped Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is.

much better than old heart of yavimaya.

This seems very nice card. Wiht GU prolifeariton deck this one is sick.

why not give it the type "Lland?"

Looking at the Future Sight set, this card more or less allowed players to reliably cast Force of Savagery on turn 3 in limited.

Use with Animate Land lul

@grimjawXrules- No, Graft triggers on "enter the battlefield," and as a triggered ability it isn't fast enough to get the counter on Force before it plops into your grave. An example of when something is fast enough to save the creature would be "as this enters the battlefield"- a creature with Devour, for instance, won't have a chance to be bolted before it om nom noms its toughness above that range.

@TheWrathofShane: How? Oran-Rief, the Vastwood can't put counters on nongreen creatures, but it's ability to add more than one counter and counters to more than one creature must surely be made up for by the higher rarity. If Rares aren't more powerful than Uncommons then I don't understand the point of having rarities.

I like graft. It's flavorfully very cool; seems to me like a good version of Phyrexia's compleation process. The Simic are pretty cool.

The point of rarities is not necessarily power, as there are many many commons that are far better than many many rares (and even some mythic rares). Rarities exist for two main gameplay reasons - one, simpler cards are common and complex cards are rare (simple cards not necessarily being less powerful than complex cards) so that the casual player who doesn't understand the rules very well sees less complex cards, and two, to control Limited gameplay by changing how often you see certain cards. For example, M10 dual lands aren't necessarily powerful, in fact they're rather average on the dual land power scale, but they're rare so that they don't show up often in drafts or such because they're usually not very useful in draft decks.

Of course, there's also the money reason. When they DO print a good rare, they're worth a lot more than a good common at the same power level, so more people buy packs hoping to find money rares that they can sell for more than a pack is worth. This was showcased at an extreme with Worldwake - with Jace, the Mind Sculptor being over $100 each for a long time. people bought tons of WWK packs hoping to find a Jace the could sell.

Built a GU proliferation/graft deck for under $10. Still beats the hell out of people.

As a side note I don't think Oran-Rief is more powerful at all. It has to tap to add counters. It's certainly more powerful in a token deck, but if you use proliferate you can get the same effectiveness with yet another land open. Further, it's important to note that Oran-Rief=behind the curve creatures. Yes you're making up for it by adding the counters, but ideally each turn you should be playing the best creature from your deck you can afford and Llanowar Reborn allows you to do that *while still buffing it*. Rief forces you to play a weaker creature and attempt to make up for it by adding a counter.

Besides.. you can run both if you want...

@GrimjawxRULES: when playing limited during future sight, the only way I ever saw someone cast Force of Savagery was by playing Lumithread Field, since graft didn't work with it.

Works great with Persist, e.g. to get your Kitchen Finks out for the third time.
Can't say the same about Undying. Except for Treacherous Pit-Dweller obviously.

This has Graft, Darkmor Salvage has dredge, Tolaria West has transmute, Keldon Megaliths has hellbent, where's my Replicate land?

Survives March of the Machines + Mycosynth Lattice along with Dryad Arbor. I'm scared.