Pointed Discussion

This got me thinking, a card with madness and cycling would be so cool.

There is a card like that, It's called Ichor Slick. It's from Future Sight and is in the Suspended Sentence theme deck

Don't play this normally. Instead, cycle it, then play it for its madness cost.

i like how the madness and cycle abilities make it pointless to hard cast it

@Gezus82, no you can't. You can buyback from madness, but you can't buyback from flashback.

You cannot buyback this card from a flashback. Buyback is a replacement effect, which replaces the event that an instant/sorcery is put into a graveyard after resolving. Because Flashback's effect states

“If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.”,
Buyback's effect cannot replace anything, because no matter where another effect would put it, the card is still removed from play.

You CAN, however...
cycle-madness-kick-buyback, for a grand total of 7RRRR
flashback-kick for 5RR

Cycling and madnessing this card effectively makes it a cantrip Shock with a bunch of other useful options. Certainly worth the .

The art is reminiscent of Death Spark, which makes it awesome.

Aw, man, I always thought you could Flashback/Buyback with this thing. Oh well, it's still epic.

{7}{R}{R}{R}{R} to deal 2 damage, draw a card, and put a 1/1 goblin token into the battlefield... hmm...

Let's see what a card that did each would be worth...

2 damage is Shock, so {R}.
1/1 Goblin token would probably be {R} and a cantrip.
Recurring would be maybe {2}{R}.

So looks like, as a bunch of cards, you'd pay {2}{R}{R}{R}. However, the card has kicker as flexibility, so that's +{1}, Flashback, so that's +{1}, and Madness, so +{1}{R}...

Sooo.... {5}{R}{R}{R}{R}... The extra 2 is worth it just for kicks, I guess.

so 5RRR for a bought back shock or 7RRRR for a bought back shock and goblin token.

If you've got the mana to do it, its great, but I'm not sure your time and mana wouldn't be better spent on a Bogardan Hellkite or a Dragon Tyrant, respectively, especially since you'll probably be able to firebreathe the Tyrant for a 24 damage flying trample attack the following turn.

You know... It's odd that this could be a perfectly valid card.

Where's the flavor in this?

for recurring 2 damage and draw a card isn't bad at all. Problem is just like capsize if the target becomes illegal, buyback fails...

A lone tear of nostalgia runs down my cheek....

A lot better than Geistflame...

Funny how all those keywords made a more or less recent comeback...

I made something KIND of like this in response to the question: "How do you kill Jace, the Mind Sculptor? He's the Batman of Magic!"

Smaug Goes Crazy- {X}{X}{X}{1}{R}{R}{R}{R}{R}

Instant- Arcane Trap (Mythic Rare)

If target player gains control of something that doesn’t belong to them, you may pay {0} instead of any of Smaug Goes Crazy’s alternate costs. Destroy X target artifacts and X target lands. Smaug Goes Crazy deals 4 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature’s controller. If Smaug Goes Crazy was cycled from your graveyard, draw three cards instead of one card. If Smaug Goes Crazy was kicked, he eats all your cows and sheep, too.

Madness {R} Cycling {R} Kicker {R} Flashback {R} Buyback {R} Splice onto Arcane {R} Rebound
(If you pay the cycling, madness, kicker, flashback, cycling, kicker, buyback, and splice costs in that order, you draw four cards, destroy XX target artifacts, XX target lands, deal 8 damage to target creature and 4 damage to that creature’s controller, and Smaug eats all your cows and sheep, too. Twice. Then return Smaug Goes Crazy to your hand. Then you repeat all of that. Then the same thing happens next turn, then you exile it.

"DON'T. STEAL. MAH. SHINIES!!!!! I'MMA FIRIN' MAH LAZER!!!"--Smaug the Golden

I am almost certain I got a rules interaction wrong on this card. But I'm also fairly sure that if you care about that, you're completely missing the point.

If you cycle and cast for madness you're getting 2 damage and a card for 3. And it flashes back for 4. So even if the other stuff is usually too costly, it's still strictly better than Fires of Undeath.

Oracle is f***ing with me, since Oracle and the Official Comprehensive Rules describe Buyback and Flashback very differently, and they lead to different conclusions about their interaction.

Oracle wording for Flashback: You may cast this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then exile it.
Oracle wording for Buyback X: You may pay an additional as you cast this spell. If you do, put this card into your hand as it resolves.

OFFICIAL RULES FOR FLASHBACK: If the flashback cost was paid, exile this card instead of putting it anywhere else any time it would leave the stack.
OFFICIAL RULES FOR BUYBACK: If the buyback cost was paid, put this spell into its owner‘s hand instead of into that player‘s graveyard as it resolves.

As far as I'm aware, if two or more replacement effects are trying to be applied to the same event, you get to choose the order in which they are applied.
So, if you choose to apply the Buyback replacement first (followed by the Flashback replacement), then "putting it into your hand as it resolves" replaces "putting it into your graveyard," and THEN "exiling that card" replaces "putting it into your hand as it resolves."
If you choose to apply the Flashback replacement first (followed by the Buyback replacement), then "exiling that card" replaces "putting it into your graveyard," which means that the Buyback replacement has no "putting it into your graveyard" event to replace.

So yeah, you can't buy it back after flashing it back, basically because the rules SPECIFICALLY prohibit it: the only case where "instead of putting it anywhere else" is relevant compared to "instead of putting it into your graveyard" back when Flashback was first introduced (2001?), other than Buyback, was Memory Lapse.

I just love the versatility.

People seem to be misunderstanding how versatile this card can be. Firstly, you can always cycle + madness for a cantrip shock, not terrible for 1RR. Plus, this card adapts to fit any situation you are in. You don't *have* to pay the buyback (as it is very expensive), but it's a great option if you have extra mana.
Besides, since when has each option of cards with many options been good? Almost all split cards have two sides that are worse than average: the point is that you get to choose what you want to fit the situation you are in, and that's what makes this card good.

My question is how do Flashback and Buyback fit together?

This is a really good card, therefore it fails as an "Un" card.

The problem with cycle + madness cast is that the card is exiled, so no flashback for you :-( Otherwise great with Jaya Ballard and Chandra Ablaze

the le reddit r/mtg army and its leejun loves this card! 5 stars if you agree!

@zipec
Umm... what?

A card with madness is only exiled when it is discarded. If you choose to cast it, then it goes on the stack and resolves just like any other spell. If you choose not to cast it, then it goes to the graveyard. So it works just fine with flashback.

@DoragonShinzui
They don't. But having buyback is awesome for repeated castings, and even if you don't pay the buyback cost, you can still cast it with flashback later.

For those who don't understand about flashback+buyback together:
You can't flashback a card and then use buyback to put it back to your hand. Flashback's replacement effect will exile it regardless of whether or not you used the buyback option... but you can still pay the buyback cost, of course - it just won't do anything unless you are still playing with mana burn.

1R to Cycle it, and Draw a card.
R to Play it for madness and deal two damage.
4R to buy it back and do it again.

You get an emblem with 5RRR: Deal 2 damage to target creature or player. Draw a card.

That's right, repeatable card draw in red. If only it were legal.

Shouldve been an interrupt.

Look at Me, I'm R&D and Old Fogey also had old borders. It could have been a cycle, but as always dimir ruins things...

The funniest thing to me is unlike most of the silver-bordered stuff it's a reasonable card, if a bit complicated, though no moreso than many "legit" cards. That's an expensive 1/1 token, but what the hell.

Based on what I always thought I knew about Magic rules - when you cast this for you have the option to pay the buyback cost in addition so it goes back to your hand and you can do it for as long as you have the mana. If you pay without buyback it goes to your graveyard on resolution like any other instant, but with flashback you can play it one more time before it goes to the exile zone. Either way you can get a minimum of two shots with it.

I love the Tempest block for many reasons and buyback was excellent on certain cards. I've probably cast Capsize more times than anything else, now that I think about it. I once staved off defeat with Captize for dozens of turns until the other guy drew himself to death.

for a cantrip Shock is pretty fair; compare Electrolyze at , which is a cantrip Forked Bolt instead.

Future Shock
Instant
Rebound, Splice onto instant , Replicate , Multikicker
At the beginning of your next upkeep, Future Shock deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

For each time Future Shock was kicked, put a 2/1 Elemental creature token onto the battlefield at the beginning of your next upkeep. It has trample, haste, and "At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice this creature."

Forecast : At the beginning of your next upkeep, Future Shock deals 1 damage to target creature.