Pointed Discussion

I was using this card in a deck idea that played cards that had Madness costs where they could be played for an alternate card if they would be discarded. I was just wondering if the card discarded for this ability could be played with the mana produced by the ability.

An effect can't be used to pay for itself, it's in the rules somewhere but you can just take my word for it.

The whole point of Dark Ritual was to power out a high-cost card on some obscenely early turn. This does not make rituals until turn 4.

Anyone notice that the ruling on this card matches the flavour text? :p

This can make rituals on turn two. If you use a rit to get it out in the first place.
No, you cannot pay for the madness card that was discarded with this ability by the mana produced by this ability.

this guy can b prity handy in a reanimater deck.
with a Zombify or something in hand u could bring out any big baddy u got on u.
and since it gives u 3{b} it helps cover some big spells early.

Dark Ritual to get this out first turn.
If you're holding a Squee, Goblin Nabob you've got a Dark Ritual every turn. Probably not worth trying though.

nice card, but not as good as DR. it could be usefull if you have a card that lets you untapp for 1 or 2 (can't remember the card, but i know it exests). and another card that always returns to your hand after deth. then you have an infinit mana combo. good luck finding a card that returns as soon as you loose it for free though.

I feel this card would be awesome with madness, but my gut instinct and knowledge of the stack would tell me that the card would hit the graveyard before the mana would exist from this ability to pay for madness. Not sure though, madness has odd rulings.

@InfinityGM - nice observation. :D

Try Worn Powerstone in place of this. Unless you really need black mana rather than colorless.

What's that? I can only have one Dark Rit in my EDH deck? Well, I've got a little workaround for this.

glowsticktm: "I was using this card in a deck idea that played cards that had Madness costs where they could be played for an alternate card if they would be discarded. I was just wondering if the card discarded for this ability could be played with the mana produced by the ability."

702.33a Madness is a keyword that represents two abilities. The first is a static ability that functions while the card with madness is in a player’s hand. The second is a triggered ability that functions when the first ability is applied. “Madness ” means “If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard.”

Since Bog Witch's ability is a mana ability, it doesn't use the stack and resolves before the triggered ability for Madness is put on the stack. So yes, you can use the mana it makes to pay for the card you ditched to it.

reprint for modern madness decks.

The ruling matches the flavor text. That was almost certainly intentional.

Reminds me of those repeated "Multiple instances of (ability) are redundant" rulings on some cards.

People I think you're missing the point.

It is a bog witch....

A BOG WITCH!!!

Would have been worthwhile as an Uncommon or Rare that did not tap to activate. Weak sauce as is though.

Convoluted, situational, improbable, but possible:

This + Umbral Mantle + 2x Training Grounds + Diviner's Wand

Step 1 - Pay {B}, discard a card, tap this guy: Add {B}{B}{B} to mana pool.

Step 2 - Pay {B}, untap this guy: he gets +2/+2.

Step 3 - Pay {B}, activate Diviner's Wand's ability: Draw a card.

{B} left in mana pool. Repeat Step 1.

Simultaneously draw into whatever you need from your deck while filling up your graveyard and pumping up this guy to a giant. With a Psychosis Crawler out it gets nasty.

@TreeTrunkMaster - or you could discard a Dark Ritual and then use Yawgmoth's Will to flash it back later.

The world is the body. The mana is the blood. The witch is the phlebotomist.