Pointed Discussion

Crazed Fircat is virtually worthless unless you have the ability to redo flips.

Statistically Crazed Fircat will be a 4/4 50% of the time, a 5/5 25% of the time, a 6/6 12.5% of the time, and a 7/7 6.25% of the time. That means this is a vanilla 8/8 or more 6.25% of the time and a 7/7 or less (usually less) 93.75% of the time.

noo he's a 4/4 or a 5/5 50% of the time silllly and a 6/6 25% of the time 7/7 12.5% of the time

pumaman83 is right.

Not so bad in a Krark's Thumb deck. Even then, kitty should be 1 mana cheeper.

thaviel is right, you are just as likely to be a 5/5 as a 4/4, it's not like you need 2 flips to make him a 5/5, which is what 25% is suggesting. if you flip a coin and win, +1/+1 and thus a 5/5, you get to flip again. loose the flip, and no +, you get a 4/4 and don't get to flip again, 50/50. sorry pumaman, your the one who can't do math.

still almost useless without the thumb, but with mirror gallery and multiples of it, you have a potential monster.

Jesus, there are some retards here. pumaman83 is definitely right. It's 25% because you have to take consecutive flips into account. I wish you could post images here, I've got a great Facepalm for you two.

Crazed Fircat is virtually worthless unless you have the ability to redo flips.

Statistically Crazed Fircat will be a 4/4 50% of the time, a 5/5 25% of the time, a 6/6 12.5% of the time, and a 7/7 6.25% of the time. That means this is a vanilla 8/8 or more 6.25% of the time and a 7/7 or less (usually less) 93.75% of the time.

Put simply the card sucks. Unless you can redo coin flips, at which point it is marginally playable.

EDIT: Ignore the other person who cannot do math.

SECOND EDIT (for those who have difficulty with probability): Let us ignore the fact that I am a real live math teacher.
Let's pretend you chose to call heads every time (because it will not effect the outcome anyhow). The card begins as a 4/4. You flip once. You have a 50% chance of flipping tails in which case you STOP FLIPPING and have a 4/4. You also have a 50% chance of flipping heads and getting a +1/+1 counter and the RIGHT TO FLIP AGAIN. As you can see there is a 50% chance of being stuck with a 4/4. There is also a 50% of getting a 5/5 OR HIGHER. The reason there is a 25% chance of being a 5/5 is because there is a 25% chance that you will flip heads AND THEN flip tails, ending your flipping.

"REAL LIVE MATH TEACHER." Real? And live?! The legends are true!!

Come on, who are you kidding. Math teachers don't play Magic. Take Richard Garfield, for instance.

I find it very funny that a card with a flip a coin ability is rated at about 2.5 / 5 as of this posting.

..i rate it 2.5 / 5.

with krarks thumb and goblin bookie I got it up to 15/15, without them it would have been a 10/10, this was the first time I played this card, more importantly 11 successfull coin flips made me win the game regardless of his power and toughness because chance encounter.

We could use more comic relief for Limited.

And here i thought all Magic players knew how to do math..
pumaman83 is 100% correct. (i had the throw in the percentage, as everyone else is so keen on it here..)
I guess with the coin flipping combos mentioned, this could be playable. but 7 for a 5/5 is still bad.

This guy's expected power and toughness are 5/5. So on average you are paying 7 mana for a 5/5, which is not a great deal.

Pumaman is right.

Chance of 4/4: 50%, or 0.5.

Now, if you only flipped once, then Crazed Firecat would indeed be 5/5 50% of the time. However, we are still flipping. Once the Cat is 5/5, another coin is flipped, with a 50/50 win-lose chance. Mathematically, that looks like this:
0.5 * 0.5 = 0.25
So yes, Crazed Firecat will be 5/5 25% of the time.

Repeat ad nauseum:
6/6: 0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.125, or 12.5%

I wish that Guest30238972472 (the guy with the ridiculously large number in his name who loves math) would come over here and put a stop to this nonsense.

It's the mtg card form of the St. Petersburg Lottery. For any finite integer, there is a nonzero chance that you'll win that many coin flips in a row. Therefore, the series of odds of getting X +1/+1 counters is divergent. It's expected p/t is infinite. This, however, isn't the whole story. The is diminishing marginal utility of power, and to a greater extent toughness. What's the difference between 20 power and 1000? What's the difference between 7 toughness and 1000? Not much. If we consider coin flips above 16 in a row as if they were functionally identical to each other, the expected power is ~19.000015.

bowtochris is right, and so is pumaman83... but bowtochris is MORE right. 7 cmc for a 4/4 50% of the time is not good, also the fact that after a few flips the odds of winning consecutively becomes so absolutely miniscule that whether it hits 15 or 5675678t643467897668087654 is practically the same. and again you will only ever be able to hit that amount only 50% of the time!

@kirbster
Yes, Math teachers do play magic, we're actually pretty good at it. Believe it or not there is a LOT of math involved in magic, and that doesn't even include the statistics of the game.

If you aren't using it with Krark's Thumb, you're doing it wrong.

*reads card*

Hey look, Wizards created a creature for people who like to argue about calculus.

*reads comments*

Hey look, it worked! :)


They should make a whole series of these cards, don't you think?

Because how many cards can say that they have the potential to enter the battlefield as a 100/100 without any outside assistance.