With all the comments about the art, it makes me wonder how this could have been drawn without looking sexual. I mean you'll still have a huge dude in a dominating position over what looks to be a helpless women. It doesn't seem like this would have ended well regardless of what the final piece of art looked like.
SyntheticDreamer
★★☆☆☆ (2.7/5.0)(9 votes)
This card is meh. The art...uh...oh dear. I can sort of see the point people have about it, but I can't ignore the big ball o' pain in Liliana's hand. Cue Triumph of Cruelty.
Trygon_Predator
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(12 votes)
Hooray for more card draw in green! The "greatest power" clause should be a cinch.
lorendorky
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(4 votes)
Will be fun to draw off of a 0/1 when the opponent is playing no creatures.
Xilinoc
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(9 votes)
Is Garruk 8 feet tall or something?
Hayw00d0909
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(20 votes)
Looks like an average friday night at my house.
sarroth
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(30 votes)
The arguments about this art go like this: "Liliana is in a submissive position, this goes against Wizards' policy of depicting women in art!"
Normally I would side with the people saying the art needs to be better. Except Liliana isn't just any woman in the art, she's one of the main characters, so it's not like they could have just made the character a guy to avoid her looking submissive. But complaining about the art is really asking that the female planeswalkers never lose a fight to a male one, and if they did, for it to never be depicted in card art. Destroying the depiction of story in card art is just stupid. Besides, once again Liliana wins (see Triumph of Cruelty). So any complaints are from people completely taking the art out of context. I really hope people calm down about one of the coolest art in the set - it's two planeswalkers kicking the crap out of each other, which is cool.
And it's Green card draw. Which is almost always cool. While it doesn't happen as surely as Garruk's Packleader, it's certainly nice. And when it's based on creatures it's flavorful too. Green really is fighting for second best color in card draw, isn't it?
Goatllama
★★★☆☆ (3.5/5.0)(17 votes)
"I love you more!" "No, I love YOU more!"
MyrBattlecube
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(11 votes)
Oh boy here we go. Comments page on this one is gonna be fun. The box is locked. The lights are on. It's internet fightin' time.
Man, it was pretty tough trying to decide which bit to use there. It came down to Battlebots, Zoids, and Medabots. The victor should be clear.
@Blaze Well, be that as it may, at least this is somewhat normal. The flip side has some kind of guro vore necrophilia fetish thing going on while Liliana gets a good view of Garruk's crotch.
ToAsTy42o
★★★☆☆ (3.6/5.0)(26 votes)
what the card art DOESN'T show, is ten seconds later, they work out their issues and totally bone.
and not just regular boning, PLANESWALKER boning.
Guest1381794618
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(9 votes)
Art aside, this is rated awfully low, it's a green riff on Phyrexian Arena with an easily fulfilled condition and no drawback, what's not to like?
BagsMcpiper
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(15 votes)
Sandwich! NOW!
RedJaron
★★★☆☆ (3.4/5.0)(8 votes)
Incredible card. Conditions are usually easily met by Green, especially with a Wolfir Silverheart. This won me a fair amount of games pre-release. The great thing is you can stack these for extra draw.
Paladin85
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(19 votes)
Liliana totally deserves a plowing for what she did to Garruk
However, replacing Liliana with Jace in the art would make this card infinite times better!
NeoKoda
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(7 votes)
Whew card draw in Green. Works well with the Packleader, since he's fairly large and likes large critters.
I'd also like to point out that the ball of light in her hand is akin to a gun or knife in reality. She's about to hurt him. Badly.
blindthrall
★★☆☆☆ (2.4/5.0)(8 votes)
THE KITCHEN IS THAT WAY!
WarioMan
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(12 votes)
"ANSWER ME! I'll ask ONE MORE TIME. WILL YOU GO TO PROM WITH ME?!?!"
VirusVescichetta
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
I love how the situation is entirely different depending on whether this or Triumph of Cruelty happens chronologically first.
@Paladin85 That change would certainly make the art infinitely more ***erotic.
JimmyNoobPlayer
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
So, I heard the art is controversial, or something?
Matsumoto
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
best multiplayer card draw ever!! Go reread the rules for the card a few times... Every players turn during their up keep it checks the highest chr value. and u draw a card if u control the highest power....amazing! Funny that the rules states something different that what the card states (your up keep). I didn't think this was a global effect card while reading it.
HedronMyr
★★★☆☆ (3.1/5.0)(13 votes)
Anyone that says the art is bad because "it shows a woman in a submissive position" is beyond stupid. First off, as another said, the characters involved led to one of two outcomes, either A) Triumph of Cruelty, or B) Garruk beating the snot out of Liliana, with anything else being relatively unrealistic. The question of gender shouldn't even matter, but the concept of a guy beating up a guy being okay, or a girl beating up a guy being okay, is really stupid, conveys a double standard, and is still, surprise surprise, sexist, because the motivation for being acceptable is still gender based.
People are way too easily offended these days. People that have a problem with the art because Liliana, by virtue of being a woman, is "at the mercy of a guy", really need to sit down, shut up, and get a life.
Daijin26
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
@Matsumoto
Actually, you need to re-read the card. It reads "At the beginning of YOUR upkeep", it does not read "At the beginning of EACH PLAYER'S upkeep". It only triggers once, during just your own upkeep, not every player's upkeep. This is not a multiplayer card.
I have no clue where you get that it triggers on each players upkeep when the card clearly reads your upkeep.
forumbrowser
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
@Matsumoto
Every instance of the rules text on the card, oracle, card ruling, the card itself IRL. All of them say "Your upkeep", not every player's upkeep.
I didn't really notice the art when I saw this card for the first time when I was reading its text. I was thinking "In green...this is a free card every turn, why isn't this rated higher?"
Pedro_Avellano
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(3 votes)
About feminazi rants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE
Men having fun in a hobby women don't control, women try to control it. Nothing new here. Boycott anyone who submits to them and they'll have no power.
Totema
★★★☆☆ (3.3/5.0)(8 votes)
If anything, this is anti-sexist. What, Liliana should get "special treatment" from Garruk just because she's a woman? Hell no, she crossed him and she's gonna pay the price. The same thing would happen if she were a man. In fact, if I'm remembering my storyline right, he did pretty much the same thing to Jace on Ravnica.
Much better than Garruk's Packleader. The condition's a little harder to meet, but still no sweat for green. And the fact that this costs less, and is harder to remove due to it's status as an enchantment make me prefer this card any day. Green really is becoming quite pro at card draw.
caldur06
★★★☆☆ (3.2/5.0)(11 votes)
of all the cards in Magic to rate as sexist, this is one of the stupidest. the lore is that Garruk is desperate, the card itself even has him desperate to stop what she did to him, and the art depicts her not caring that a guy has his hand around her throat because she is a powerful planeswalker. honestly, there's about a million half-naked angels, vampires, and elves running around and Lilianna's own backstory is that she sold her soul for some beauty. of all the things to comment on about sexism...
rollinsclone
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
In green this is basically Phyrexian Arena with no drawback. Plus they stack. Not sure if this is a run 4 of, but tossing a couple into any big stompy deck is a good idea.
CorkBulb
★★★★☆ (4.0/5.0)(9 votes)
I love the people who try to post serious comments about the card's effect in this mess of sexist/anti-sexist comments.
@all you people bitching about the art being sexist: Oh! It's ok when it's the other way around huh?
First off, Liliana is an evil *** who enjoys watching people suffer and die. She double crosses people, namely the very demons she made a deal with for eternal youth, and she is a ruthless murderer. She is selfish and will do whatever diabolic deed needs to be done to get what she wants. She even worked for Nicol Bolas for God's sake! So, by very right of all things good, she deserves to have an 8 foot tall, 480 pound huntsman beat the *** out of her. Woman or not, evil is evil.
Second, she kinda screwed Garruk, so, she gets what she deserves.
And third, she's a main character. She has significance in the storyline and this art depicts an event that happened in the story. It's NOT just some random woman depicted as about to get beat up.
Personally, the though of such evil being pinned down defenseless and genuinely fearing for her life is absolutely delightful >:)
Oh well, too bad Garruk didn't kill her. Wizards needs to keep the story going for their profits.....
TheWrathofShane
★★☆☆☆ (2.0/5.0)(3 votes)
If you think the art is controversial you need to lighten up. How about we discuss that awesome flavor text? Makes me proud to own a Garruk.
Abuse is terrible, but most of the time the women keep putting themselves in that situation...
ElvisPriestley
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(7 votes)
Garruk spent most of his life surrounded by animals. That's kinda like being in jail.
And we all know what happens in jail.
eheitzman
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
If there are no creatures in play, and you have Triumph in Cruelty at the beginning of your upkeep, do you draw a card?
PriestessKikyo1
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
As a woman myself, this art doesn't bother me at all. I kind of like it! Anyway, I was expecting just to read some comments and was greeted with all this controversy.. I think Garruk expressed the sentiment perfectly.
i couldnt care less if he had her bent over the rock doing her beasty style all i care about is what the card does and what it cost to get the affect and this card is good and priced right and has a nice home in my beast deck with garruk and pack leader filling my hand with all the card advantage i'll ever need
Fireballmage
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Thank God Disruptive Student wasn't printed today, or its art would have made many more waves than this card ever did.
Kale_Eledar
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.6/5.0)(5 votes)
Come on, guys. Do you REALLY need to make sex comments? Really? Just comment on the card itself. Green needs card draw like this.
MagicBrad
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
Firstly, the art and flavour. There's a lot of comments regarding abuse and sexuality of the art. For those people, two things. Firstly and most importantly, it's a frickin' card game. And secondly, the two of them are fighting, not playing patty-cake. I, for one, like the art and the flavour. It doesn't encourage me to beat my girlfriend up, either. And when I showed her the card, she didn't seem enthusiastic about the art, but did say she couldn't really get worked up about the way it looked.
Onto the card: Green needed some card-draw, and this card really does it well, and keeps the concept so very Green. Excellent for use in a bunch of midrange decks, and decks with all kinds of big fatties. I like it, I'll take four.
HuntingDrake
★★★☆☆ (3.0/5.0)(5 votes)
I badly underrated this card until I saw it in action. It's that "or tied for the greatest" that really makes this good, especially on the play. But honestly, I must've initially assumed the effect could help your opponents, like so many older cards do.
As for the art, RyukiaHyuuga on the card's DeviantArt page expresses my thoughts perfectly: "The same scene could certainly have been depicted without sexualizing the female figure being victimized. Magic art generally is good about staying away from overly sexualizing victims, portraying "damsels in distress," and so on. Liliana's clearly not helpless here, when the whole context is considered and seeing her clearly prepared to fight back, but the positions of the figures and general tone of the image is something that strongly resonates with many women for whom sexual assault is a very real threat, and a reminder of that in their escapist fantasy world is very discomforting. Changing the image to be less on-the-nose with regard to that could have portrayed the same situation without alienating or discomforting those people. Trying to keep this sort of thing in mind doesn't take anything away from the people for whom it doesn't affect, and it does a lot of good for those whom it does." (http://namesjames.deviantart.com/art/Triumph-of-Ferocity-300328727)
I mean, did his knee really have to be between her legs?
rawsugar
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
sideboard card vs control, love playing this t2 w manadork^^
there's likely better anticontrol in other formats but in standard i've yet to come up with a better card vs control for green.
@priestess: so you like being choked? (modbaiting...is that a thing?)
Secksee
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@Hayw00d0909: I don't see the four guys sitting around and playing magic that you speak of.
Bill_zagoudis
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
sexism? seriously political correctness is getting tiresome...
what if she is submisive? should she wrestle as equal with Garruk?,the guy is like a bear i'm fairly certain he can hanle ANY woman in melle,why? because women don't come at 140 KG,i'm sure you've seen women and noticed that they are generally lighter than men,with thinner bones and slimmer muscular structure,or you didn't?
come on! every child on earth knows that daddy is stronger than mommy,you don't? don't be afraid it's neither sexism not racism to admit it's just plain truth.
mrchuckmorris
★☆☆☆☆ (1.0/5.0)(1 vote)
I searched this card to comment on the awesome art, and what do I find? *siiiiggghhhh...* an argument on sexism.
Seriously, everyone, he's threatening her with death, not rape. Why does this scene have to call to mind rape scenarios? Every time I look at a card with two Ravnican towers in the background, do I have to remember 9-11? Or heavens no, if I saw Garruk wailing on some hapless scrawny dude, would some guy get to sue Wizards because he was bullied as a kid? sheesh...
gideon999
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.5/5.0)(1 vote)
Do you still draw if you control no creatures and neither does your opponent?
1337vanguard
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
Cool card. Even cooler art. 4.5\5
infinimyr
★★☆☆☆ (2.8/5.0)(2 votes)
WHY DO KIDS LOVE THE TASTE OF CINNAMON TOAST CRUNCH?
Comments (49)
Normally I would side with the people saying the art needs to be better. Except Liliana isn't just any woman in the art, she's one of the main characters, so it's not like they could have just made the character a guy to avoid her looking submissive. But complaining about the art is really asking that the female planeswalkers never lose a fight to a male one, and if they did, for it to never be depicted in card art. Destroying the depiction of story in card art is just stupid. Besides, once again Liliana wins (see Triumph of Cruelty). So any complaints are from people completely taking the art out of context. I really hope people calm down about one of the coolest art in the set - it's two planeswalkers kicking the crap out of each other, which is cool.
And it's Green card draw. Which is almost always cool. While it doesn't happen as surely as Garruk's Packleader, it's certainly nice. And when it's based on creatures it's flavorful too. Green really is fighting for second best color in card draw, isn't it?
"No, I love YOU more!"
The box is locked.
The lights are on.
It's internet fightin' time.
Man, it was pretty tough trying to decide which bit to use there. It came down to Battlebots, Zoids, and Medabots. The victor should be clear.
@Blaze Well, be that as it may, at least this is somewhat normal. The flip side has some kind of guro vore necrophilia fetish thing going on while Liliana gets a good view of Garruk's crotch.
and not just regular boning, PLANESWALKER boning.
However, replacing Liliana with Jace in the art would make this card infinite times better!
I'd also like to point out that the ball of light in her hand is akin to a gun or knife in reality. She's about to hurt him. Badly.
@Paladin85 That change would certainly make the art infinitely more ***erotic.
Go reread the rules for the card a few times... Every players turn during their up keep it checks the highest chr value. and u draw a card if u control the highest power....amazing! Funny that the rules states something different that what the card states (your up keep). I didn't think this was a global effect card while reading it.
People are way too easily offended these days. People that have a problem with the art because Liliana, by virtue of being a woman, is "at the mercy of a guy", really need to sit down, shut up, and get a life.
Actually, you need to re-read the card. It reads "At the beginning of YOUR upkeep", it does not read "At the beginning of EACH PLAYER'S upkeep". It only triggers once, during just your own upkeep, not every player's upkeep. This is not a multiplayer card.
I have no clue where you get that it triggers on each players upkeep when the card clearly reads your upkeep.
Every instance of the rules text on the card, oracle, card ruling, the card itself IRL. All of them say "Your upkeep", not every player's upkeep.
I didn't really notice the art when I saw this card for the first time when I was reading its text. I was thinking "In green...this is a free card every turn, why isn't this rated higher?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBgcjtE0xrE
Men having fun in a hobby women don't control, women try to control it. Nothing new here. Boycott anyone who submits to them and they'll have no power.
@all you people bitching about the art being sexist:
Oh! It's ok when it's the other way around huh?
First off, Liliana is an evil *** who enjoys watching people suffer and die. She double crosses people, namely the very demons she made a deal with for eternal youth, and she is a ruthless murderer. She is selfish and will do whatever diabolic deed needs to be done to get what she wants. She even worked for Nicol Bolas for God's sake! So, by very right of all things good, she deserves to have an 8 foot tall, 480 pound huntsman beat the *** out of her. Woman or not, evil is evil.
Second, she kinda screwed Garruk, so, she gets what she deserves.
And third, she's a main character. She has significance in the storyline and this art depicts an event that happened in the story. It's NOT just some random woman depicted as about to get beat up.
Personally, the though of such evil being pinned down defenseless and genuinely fearing for her life is absolutely delightful >:)
Oh well, too bad Garruk didn't kill her. Wizards needs to keep the story going for their profits.....
Abuse is terrible, but most of the time the women keep putting themselves in that situation...
And we all know what happens in jail.
Onto the card: Green needed some card-draw, and this card really does it well, and keeps the concept so very Green. Excellent for use in a bunch of midrange decks, and decks with all kinds of big fatties. I like it, I'll take four.
As for the art, RyukiaHyuuga on the card's DeviantArt page expresses my thoughts perfectly:
"The same scene could certainly have been depicted without sexualizing the female figure being victimized. Magic art generally is good about staying away from overly sexualizing victims, portraying "damsels in distress," and so on. Liliana's clearly not helpless here, when the whole context is considered and seeing her clearly prepared to fight back, but the positions of the figures and general tone of the image is something that strongly resonates with many women for whom sexual assault is a very real threat, and a reminder of that in their escapist fantasy world is very discomforting. Changing the image to be less on-the-nose with regard to that could have portrayed the same situation without alienating or discomforting those people. Trying to keep this sort of thing in mind doesn't take anything away from the people for whom it doesn't affect, and it does a lot of good for those whom it does."
(http://namesjames.deviantart.com/art/Triumph-of-Ferocity-300328727)
I mean, did his knee really have to be between her legs?
there's likely better anticontrol in other formats but in standard i've yet to come up with a better card vs control for green.
@priestess: so you like being choked? (modbaiting...is that a thing?)
what if she is submisive? should she wrestle as equal with Garruk?,the guy is like a bear i'm fairly certain he can hanle ANY woman in melle,why? because women don't come at 140 KG,i'm sure you've seen women and noticed that they are generally lighter than men,with thinner bones and slimmer muscular structure,or you didn't?
come on! every child on earth knows that daddy is stronger than mommy,you don't?
don't be afraid it's neither sexism not racism to admit it's just plain truth.
Seriously, everyone, he's threatening her with death, not rape. Why does this scene have to call to mind rape scenarios? Every time I look at a card with two Ravnican towers in the background, do I have to remember 9-11? Or heavens no, if I saw Garruk wailing on some hapless scrawny dude, would some guy get to sue Wizards because he was bullied as a kid? sheesh...