I really, really thought this should have been reprinted in commander. Very underrated card.
Deaderpool
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(2 votes)
For the cost of a land drop I can perma-tap most threats. It prevents attacking and leads to stagnation on the battlefield. Powerful, but dramatically unfun.
Mechanize
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I attack, opp Ice flows a creature, I relentless assault
Question 1: can I untap and attack again?
Question 2: What happens if I don't attack again and leave the creature untapped?
Question 3: If I do attack a 2nd time, does ice flow still prevent the creature from untapping on my next untap phase?
igniteice
★★★★★ (5.0/5.0)(1 vote)
@Mechanize
When you declare attacks, you simultaneously tap them. If your opponent responds to your attacker by tapping it with Ice Floe, it will already have been tapped and attacking. Ice Floe doesn't untap the creature to remove it from combat. He would need to use Ice Floe during the main phase or before attackers are declared. However, that said, your creature wouldn't untap during your untap phase if it became tapped again.
Here are some problems though with your scenario: Relentless Assault is a Sorcery. You can't cast it during combat. Sorceries may only (normally) be cast during main phases. Your opponent could however wait until after you cast Relentless Assault (until after it resolves), then during the Beginning of Combat phase (before Declare Attackers phase), he could use Ice Floes (if he hadn't already) and it would tap your creature before you could attack with it during the second combat phase.
BongRipper420
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
I've never played against this card, but it seems it could potentially be stupidly unfun to do so.
This can seriously slow down aggro decks, and can be just as mean against control too. And it's a land. I'm quite shocked I've never seen this used before. It looks really good.
Kirbster
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
ICE FLOE; NOWHERE TO GO!
ICE FLOE; NOWHERE TO GO!
Khardiss
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
@leomistico - Incorrect. You cannot use Ice Floe to tap a creature. You use Ice Floe to prevent a creature that attacks you from untapping. If you use Tidewater Minion to untap your Ice Floe, then the creature you had trapped will be released and will untap during it's owners next untap phase. Also, Ice Floe does not stop the attack. When your opponent attacks you, you use Ice Floe to prevent his creature from untapping, but that attacking creature still attacks. You still need to block it or take the damage from it.
@igniteice - You do use Ice Floe during combat. It's ability states "Tap target creature without flying that is attacking you". How can you choose a target creature that's attacking you if attackers haven't been declared yet? When your opponent declares his attackers, you tap your Ice Floe to "trap" one of the attacking creatures, if that creature doesn't tap during attacks then you tap it. The creature does not untap until you choose to untap your Ice Floe (or some other spell/ability causes it to untap). It does not remove the attacking creature from combat, so any damage it would do would still occur.
@Mechanize - Question 1: Yes, you can untap and attack again. Ice Floe prevents your creature from untapping during your untap phase, it doesn't prevent you from untapping it using other spells or abilities. Question 2 & 3: The creature would remain untapped until the next time you tap it. If your opponent never untaps his Ice Floe, then your creature remains "attached" to it. If you use Relentless Assault to untap it, then wait X turns, then tap it to attack with, it would then remain tapped. If you never tap it again for the rest of the game (block only), then it would never get "trapped" again. If you do attack with it again, then it would become "trapped" again and would not untap during your normal untap phase.
leomistico
☆☆☆☆☆ (0.0/5.0)
You can also untap it with Tidewater Minion (or the like) to tap 2 creature during a single combat. With a single Ice Floe you can trap a couple of creatures... In this, Ice Floe can be better than Maze of Ith
5/5, sometimes it can be so annoying, but perfect for a control strategy, against an aggro. We need some more weapons to fight aggro/midrange!
Edit: @leomistico - Incorrect. You cannot use Ice Floe to tap a creature. You use Ice Floe to prevent a creature that attacks you from untapping. If you use Tidewater Minion to untap your Ice Floe, then the creature you had trapped will be released and will untap during it's owners next untap phase. Also, Ice Floe does not stop the attack. When your opponent attacks you, you use Ice Floe to prevent his creature from untapping, but that attacking creature still attacks. You still need to block it or take the damage from it.
@Khardiss: you didn't understand a couple of things. Let's read the oracle text: : Tap target creature without flying that's attacking you. It doesn't untap during its controller's untap step for as long as Ice Floe remains tapped. Of course you can use it to tap a creature, it's written there! Sure the only revelant case is for a vigilant creature but so what? And I didn't say anything about use it to stop an attack, I know that Ice Floe doesn't stop it. And about untapping it: you have to tap Ice Floe, then in response of its ability untap it with the Minion and after that tap Ice Floe again before its first ability resolve. You have trapped 2 creatures, because the first creature doesn't see the Ice Floe that untapped, since it happened before the ability started to have effect...
Comments (11)
Still, I think this needs some errata to be a snow land. It's made of ice...
Question 1: can I untap and attack again?
Question 2: What happens if I don't attack again and leave the creature untapped?
Question 3: If I do attack a 2nd time, does ice flow still prevent the creature from untapping on my next untap phase?
When you declare attacks, you simultaneously tap them. If your opponent responds to your attacker by tapping it with Ice Floe, it will already have been tapped and attacking. Ice Floe doesn't untap the creature to remove it from combat. He would need to use Ice Floe during the main phase or before attackers are declared. However, that said, your creature wouldn't untap during your untap phase if it became tapped again.
Here are some problems though with your scenario: Relentless Assault is a Sorcery. You can't cast it during combat. Sorceries may only (normally) be cast during main phases. Your opponent could however wait until after you cast Relentless Assault (until after it resolves), then during the Beginning of Combat phase (before Declare Attackers phase), he could use Ice Floes (if he hadn't already) and it would tap your creature before you could attack with it during the second combat phase.
This can seriously slow down aggro decks, and can be just as mean against control too. And it's a land. I'm quite shocked I've never seen this used before. It looks really good.
ICE FLOE; NOWHERE TO GO!
@igniteice - You do use Ice Floe during combat. It's ability states "Tap target creature without flying that is attacking you". How can you choose a target creature that's attacking you if attackers haven't been declared yet? When your opponent declares his attackers, you tap your Ice Floe to "trap" one of the attacking creatures, if that creature doesn't tap during attacks then you tap it. The creature does not untap until you choose to untap your Ice Floe (or some other spell/ability causes it to untap). It does not remove the attacking creature from combat, so any damage it would do would still occur.
@Mechanize - Question 1: Yes, you can untap and attack again. Ice Floe prevents your creature from untapping during your untap phase, it doesn't prevent you from untapping it using other spells or abilities. Question 2 & 3: The creature would remain untapped until the next time you tap it. If your opponent never untaps his Ice Floe, then your creature remains "attached" to it. If you use Relentless Assault to untap it, then wait X turns, then tap it to attack with, it would then remain tapped. If you never tap it again for the rest of the game (block only), then it would never get "trapped" again. If you do attack with it again, then it would become "trapped" again and would not untap during your normal untap phase.
5/5, sometimes it can be so annoying, but perfect for a control strategy, against an aggro. We need some more weapons to fight aggro/midrange!
Edit:
@leomistico - Incorrect. You cannot use Ice Floe to tap a creature. You use Ice Floe to prevent a creature that attacks you from untapping. If you use Tidewater Minion to untap your Ice Floe, then the creature you had trapped will be released and will untap during it's owners next untap phase. Also, Ice Floe does not stop the attack. When your opponent attacks you, you use Ice Floe to prevent his creature from untapping, but that attacking creature still attacks. You still need to block it or take the damage from it.
@Khardiss: you didn't understand a couple of things. Let's read the oracle text:
Of course you can use it to tap a creature, it's written there! Sure the only revelant case is for a vigilant creature but so what? And I didn't say anything about use it to stop an attack, I know that Ice Floe doesn't stop it. And about untapping it: you have to tap Ice Floe, then in response of its ability untap it with the Minion and after that tap Ice Floe again before its first ability resolve. You have trapped 2 creatures, because the first creature doesn't see the Ice Floe that untapped, since it happened before the ability started to have effect...