Pointed Discussion

Finally has been restored to it's original glory. Yay, Tezzeret combo!

combos well with money

Please please please change the wording back! It was perfect before you could twiddle it but now it's just broken. I just played in Type 1 tournament and at least 90% of the people were playing Time Vault/ Voltac Key combo. Type 1 is a mess with that combo available.

Mark Gottlieb, the Magic Rules Manager at the time he said this is quoted as saying "For the sake of our sanity, we generally ignore the very existence of Time Vault". This was part of his explanation for why yet another overpowered, stupidly broken two-card win combo using the Vault was allowed to exist. That's how broken this card is. No other card in the game threatens the Rules team's sanity anywhere near like this does.

Broken or not, it's fun to do. ....For you. Not for the other guy/gal.

I really want one, just to have it, though. A piece of Magic Infamy in my hands? Yes please.

if sumone played this on me id have to tell them that they should be ashamed of themselves

@A3Kitsune It was a three card combo when this was in print.

If it was up to me, this is how Time Vault would be worded.

Time Vault Comes into the battlefield Tapped

If Time Vault would become untapped, if it is during your untap step, you may end your turn, if your turn ends this way, untap Time Vault, if your turn does not ended this way, Time Vault does not untap; your turn can only be ended this way once during your turn. Other replacement effects can not replace Time Vault's untapping.

{Tap}: Take an extra turn after this one.

No combos; you must, and I repeat YOU MUST skip a turn to take an extra turn, and it never ever untaps any other way but during your untap step effectively skipping your entire turn. This was probably the way it was intended to play when the card was designed but it was resorceful Magic players that found ways to manipulate it; at first using series/stack tricks with the way extra turns were taken to take their turns before the skipped turn and later using untap ability tricks to take unlimited turns.

I really hate "preventable combos" and Time Vault along with Flash are two preventable combo cards I wish they'd errata correctly so they don't have to be banned because of turn 1 and turn 2, two card combos.

If you want to see a "Fix" look at Magosi, the waterveil.
its not really a fix, though, because it sets you back a lot more than the intended function of this would.

The original wording of Time Vault is:

Tap to gain an additional turn after the current one. Time Vault doesn't untap normally during untap phase; to untap it, you must skip a turn. Time Vault begins tapped.

It clearly states that you must skip a turn to untap Time Vault.

Why not word it so that no other untapping won't work. This is my take of the Oracle wording:

Time Vault enters the battlefield tapped.
Time Vault doesn't untap unless you skip your turn. You can only skip your turn when your turn is about to begin. If you would begin your turn while Time Vault is tapped, you may skip that turn instead. If you do, untap Time Vault.
Tap: Take an extra turn after this one.

Those two guys in the art must be proud of themselves....... one of them kind of looks like a Vedalken, which is appropriate.

combos with voltaic key

This card is really dumb. No for real it's horribly dumb.

Know how dumb this card is?

People just don't respect Timetwister much anymore, though they still like Wheel of Fortune which is the exact same thing in a different color, and they consider Wheel to be the postercard of that effect now.

This is because Timetwister was at first given the prestige of being one of the "Power Nine". To be Power Nine you have to be:

1) Completely utterly undercosted for your effect
2) Actually broken in Tournament play, so that Banning and Restricting in one or both Eternal Formats makes more than just sense- it sounds like the only way to keep the formats healthy.
Cards like Bazaar of Baghdad and Library of Alexandria have been hotly debated as possible "Power Tenth" cards.
3) The final requirement to be really accepted as Power turned out to be: Must be from Alpha, and have the full prestige of "Developers were all on coke back then" assumptions as the only sorry excuses for its existence.

There is more consensus that Time Vault is actually legitly a Power Card than any other card not in the Original List than any other, which is where I decided that people are giving extra weight to 'is from Alpha' from. It took Timetwister's place, and no matter HOW GOOD Timetwister IS and IS KNOWN to be, it was once a POWER NINE card, and has lost that highest place in MAGIC player's eyes, and now will forever have to deal with that affecting how people evaluate it, resulting in it being downgraded to be thought of as "Wheel of Fortune but Blue" RATHER than Wheel being "Timetwister but Red".

The next time any of the 5 Moxen or Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall or Time Walk get a call saying "Sorry, we don't think you're THAT great anymore because of this guy", you will have your answer to which card has had more impact than Time Vault. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is nowhere near close at all, he's practically a joke.
MANA DRAIN is a joke when you set THAT kind of bar.



ATTENTION WIZARDS: STOP MESSING WITH TIME!

@DarthParallax: Have you actually read what Timetwister does and what Wheel of Fortune does? If you have, how can you say that they are the exact same thing, because they have totally different effects? And also if you have not read hte cards, you also should not be able to claim that they are the same thing. The only similar thing is that both make all players draw 7 cards. Wheel makes them also discard their hand before drawing, whereas Timetwister doesn't discard anything (matters for example if Megrim is in play) but all players shuffle their hands and graveyards into their libraries, so the main idea is graveyard recursion.